I wonder what is their game plan.

[danb]

Hello, yesterday I read this article at work during my break time. It was from the BBC new organization:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-25062525

 

In it they state among other things that :

 

"China has demarcated an "air-defence identification zone" over an area of the East China Sea, covering islands that are also claimed by Japan.

China's defence ministry said aircraft entering the zone must obey its rules or face "emergency defensive measures". "

Are they looking for a fight or are they merely prodding the Japanese? Pushing, poking and prodding to see what they can get away with. And what about Abe and the Japanese , will they arise to the occasion? I think both side could be playing a dangerous game. I wonder why the UN doesn't step in and offer to mediate this dispute before it get out of hand. I wish they both would come to their senses and seek a fair and peaceful resolution to the issue(s). Danb

[Randy W]

The Chinese foreign affairs has several voices - the Military, the Propaganda Ministry, and the Foreign Affairs Dept., any one of which is able to speak out or set policy, and may speak either to the International community or to their own people. It's a difficult act to balance and they're not doing a very good job.

 

I expect this is one they'll have to back down from pretty quick, but the only assumption within China is that it's a GIVEN that of course they already OWN the Diaoyu Islands and other China Sea territories, and is NOT open to any mediation or "interference" from outside powers. They won't want to look weak or in any way surrendering sovereignty.

 

US criticizes new China zone, vows to defend Japan

http://news.yahoo.com/us-deeply-concerned-over-china-air-defense-zone-223707007.html

Edited November 24, 2013 by Randy W (see edit history)

[Guest ExChinaExpat]

China has crossed the line of no return. Japan will not give in and neither will China. Armed conflict seems inevitable now.

[Guest ExChinaExpat]

I found this quote from Shanghailist rather interesting:

 

 

 

China hasn't made it clear how it's going to deal with said "unauthorized aircraft" so we have don't know if this is just another display of dick-waving that will be scaled back after negotiation, or if shit just got real.

 

Can their dicks be spotted on radar?

 

http://shanghaiist.com/2013/11/24/china_declares_diaoyu_islands_air_d.php

[Guest ExChinaExpat]

Commentary: WSJ should not serve as mouthpiece for Japan on Diaoyu Islands

 

 

 

BEIJING, Nov. 5 (Xinhua) -- The Japanese government seems to have stepped up a lobbying campaign around the world to create the illusion that the Chinese-owned Diaoyu Islands belong to Japan.

The Wall Street Journal, a mainstream U.S. newspaper, acted as a trumpet for the Japanese government, as it published an editorial Friday claiming that the sovereignty of the Diaoyu Islands has been settled by the Americans in favor of Japan in the early 1970s.

It even urged the Obama administration to be "more explicit" that the islands in the East China Sea are Japanese, so that Beijing is more likely to back down.

The editorial marks the first time for a major U.S. newspaper to publicly call on Washington to acknowledge that the Diaoyu Islands belong to Japan, since Tokyo's "nationalization" of the uninhabited islands from private hands in late 2012.

The WSJ, despite its reputed balanced news reporting, has regrettably taken an extreme stance in this editorial article.

It seems to have ignored repeated statements from the White House that the United States does not take a position on territorial disputes between China and Japan, in which America is not a directly concerned party and should remain neutral.

By siding with the Japanese, the paper has in fact fallen victim to Japan's international lobbying and served as a pawn in Tokyo's despicable scheme to usurp on the Diaoyu Islands, which have been proved the Chinese territory since ancient times.

Relevant international documents inked at the end of World War II have laid out in legal terms that the Diaoyu Islands should be returned to China. The U.S. unilateral transferring "power of administration" of the islets to Japan is utterly illegal and void.

Moreover, the journal writes in a voice quite similar to the Japanese government, which typically blames all tensions over the disputed islands on China while exculpating and even glorifying Japan's provocative actions.

In a latest move to justify his expansionist ambitions, Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe said in an interview with the WSJ late October that Japan should take a greater "leadership" role in security affairs in the Asia-Pacific to counter a stronger China.

Abe has intentionally depicted China as a looming threat, because he needs to envision an enemy to lobby the international community to build a full-fledged Japanese army, shake off constraints imposed by its pacifist constitution, and challenge the post-war international order.

Any responsible newspaper should take account of such ulterior motives, and refrain from serving as a mouthpiece for campaigns against peace.

Mainstream news outlets such as the WSJ should take the lead in showing its pursuit for fact and commitment to truth, and help defuse tension for a more peaceful world, rather than act the opposite.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/indepth/2013-11/05/c_132860933.htm

[Randy W]

http://www.globaltimes.cn/Portals/0/attachment/2011/14f69248-0823-44cc-8720-aa6ab6778ff3.jpeg

 

Global Times - Offshore security beefed up

 

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/827385.shtml?utm_source=buffer&utm_campaign=Buffer&utm_content=buffer3da25&utm_medium=facebook#.UpKWip6VNQA

Edited November 25, 2013 by Randy W
fix link (see edit history)

[danb]

When China announced the reforms that they were going to implement after the 3 rd Plenum I thought the China was heading in the right direction. Perhaps some may think that China is not doing enough and / or not fast enough. I see it a little different. I see it as, change takes time. Everything can't happen overnight. It would probably be too chaotic. It is their country and they are the ones who should choose what and when to do things.

 

But it is difficult for me to see what direction they are taking in reference to establishing ( or should I say reestablishing?) their territory boundaries. Of course it is only my opinion but the route they are taking looks like it may be a dangerous one. It would be nice to see perhaps to see a solution as the one that Iran and the rest of the world found this past week. A peaceful solution. A solution that all can live with. Peace, danb

[warpedbored]

All this over 5 uninhabited islets and 3 barren rocks the largest of which is only 4.32 KM, next largest is 1.08 KM. The rest are .46 KM or smaller. Certainly nothing there worth starting WW3 over. I don't think Japan will back down over this one and the United States has no choice but to back Japan up. China will either have to go to war over it or lose face by backing down. China's defense ministry has put the nation in a very difficult position. I don't believe China could win a war against the United States. The death and destruction would probably make all previous wars in history look small in comparison.

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2012/9/17/1347889055740/Senkaku-islands-008.jpg

[credzba]

All this over 5 uninhabited islets and 3 barren rocks the largest of which is only 4.32 KM, next largest is 1.08 KM. The rest are .46 KM or smaller. Certainly nothing there worth starting WW3 over. I don't think Japan will back down over this one and the United States has no choice but to back Japan up. China will either have to go to war over it or lose face by backing down. China's defense ministry has put the nation in a very difficult position. I don't believe China could win a war against the United States. The death and destruction would probably make all previous wars in history look small in comparison.

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2012/9/17/1347889055740/Senkaku-islands-008.jpg

 

I read Tsap, and other vets talking about fighting for no good reason.

Would our citizens really tolerate going to war with China over these islands?

 

It seems very unlikely, and certainly a career ending move for whoever supported in in congress.

In addition, the world economy is barely stumbling as it is, this would certainly wreck what life there is in the worldwide economy.

 

Seems like all bluffing to me, no sane American is going to die for these islands.

[tsap seui]

Oh our suits are ramping up for it. I heard a suit, a Congressman I believe today talking about how 1/3 or so of the worlds shipping comes out of China and "we" have to protect those waters as China is moving to take control of them., I guess so Walmart and others can keep getting stuff made cheap in China, since they sent our manufacturing jobs over there. Money rules as usual. Them that's gots gets, them that ain't gots, gets got.

 

I give up, governments (the suits that operate them) are just destined to kill people and fight wars. It's not the people, it's the governments.

 

I'm reading a pretty good book right now, called Breach of Trust. The author writes about how easy it is for America to stay in perpetual wars, what with the volunteer Army doing the fighting while most folks just watch from the sidelines, or could care less.

 

I'm nobody, but my small squeak into the chorus of loud voices says, stay out, let Japan and everyone else who bought our planes and war material do the fighting until they can't fight anymore, then step in if you need to. It's all a shit sandwich anyhow. Nobody will win this one. Walmart is gonna lose big time. LOL

 

tsap seui

[warpedbored]

The United States wouldn't go to war over the islands. We've pretty much said we're neutral about them. Japan however isn't going to back down. If China tries to enforce the air restriction zone Japan will send fighters in to chase them off. Once shots are fired if China were to retaliate against Japan then the United States would enter the fray.

[Randy W]

A reply from the Global Times today . . .

 

 

Tokyo’s menace won’t intimidate China

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/827625.shtml?utm_content=bufferde682&utm_source=buffer&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Buffer#.UpP8zyfv0gQ

 

However, the US' tough stance might turn out to become a catalyst for Japan to take further provocative actions against China on the East China Sea, instead of serving as a condition to prompt Beijing to alter its will and determination in establishing the ADIZ.

China emphasized the legitimacy of the creation of the air defense zone and reiterated its willingness for peace and stability. Now that Abe uttered "an unexpected situation" in response to the new ADIZ, it is fair enough for the Chinese to believe that Japan will probably wage calamitous maneuvers as the "unexpected situation" its prime minister claimed. We wonder whether the Japanese are warning us that a war is likely to break out on the East China Sea.

It must be pointed out that Beijing set up the ADIZ with an aim to avoid frictions and conflicts.

 

. . .

 

We are convinced that the People's Liberation Army must have taken into account the worst situation when a military mishap breaks out. If Washington attempts to interfere in this Sino-Japanese territorial row, China is willing to keep it company to the end.

The Japanese are too naïve if it believes China is a nation that can be easily frightened or deterred.

The East China Sea is likely to enjoy peace but is also easy to sink in a quagmire of "unexpected" turbulence, which will consume the two largest economies in Asia. Perhaps Beijing should leave Tokyo to make the right choice this time.

 

[warpedbored]

It seems to be escalating. http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/26/world/asia/china-us-b52s/

 

 

Two U.S. military aircraft flew into China's newly claimed and challenged air defense zone over the East China Sea, a U.S. official said, an action that could inflame tensions between the world powers.

The large U.S. Air Force B-52 planes -- which were not armed because they were on a training mission -- set off Monday from Guam and returned there without incident. The mission lasted for several hours, and the aircraft were in China's newly declared air zone for about an hour, according to the U.S. official.

The planes' pilots did not identify themselves upon entering the disputed airspace, as China would have wanted, according to the official.

 

 

Chinese aircraft carrier group on the move

China's military, meanwhile, announced on its website early Wednesday that its navy's sole aircraft carrier was heading toward the South China Sea.

That's where China has had territorial disputes with other Asian nations including the Philippines and Vietnam. At the same time, the East China Sea -- where it recently declared an "air defense zone" causing a stir with Japan and its ally the United States -- is not far away.

The carrier, named Liaoning, set out from a shipyard in eastern China's Qingdao city on Tuesday morning, the military said on its website.

As with U.S. aircraft carriers, it doesn't travel alone: Two guided missile destroyers and two guided missile frigates are accompanying the massive ship as part of its group.

[NUWORLD]

 

It seems to be escalating. http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/26/world/asia/china-us-b52s/

 

 

Two U.S. military aircraft flew into China's newly claimed and challenged air defense zone over the East China Sea, a U.S. official said, an action that could inflame tensions between the world powers.

The large U.S. Air Force B-52 planes -- which were not armed because they were on a training mission -- set off Monday from Guam and returned there without incident. The mission lasted for several hours, and the aircraft were in China's newly declared air zone for about an hour, according to the U.S. official.

The planes' pilots did not identify themselves upon entering the disputed airspace, as China would have wanted, according to the official.

 

 

Chinese aircraft carrier group on the move

China's military, meanwhile, announced on its website early Wednesday that its navy's sole aircraft carrier was heading toward the South China Sea.

That's where China has had territorial disputes with other Asian nations including the Philippines and Vietnam. At the same time, the East China Sea -- where it recently declared an "air defense zone" causing a stir with Japan and its ally the United States -- is not far away.

The carrier, named Liaoning, set out from a shipyard in eastern China's Qingdao city on Tuesday morning, the military said on its website.

As with U.S. aircraft carriers, it doesn't travel alone: Two guided missile destroyers and two guided missile frigates are accompanying the massive ship as part of its group.

 

 

 

Just freaking great!

This is the last thing we need at this point.

Fighting for a bunch of rocks that have no purpose.

 

I been reading this thread and tend to stay away from politics.

But i have to put my two cents in.

 

I don't see the point of this conflict.

The wife says don't worry about it, China will win.

What she does not understand is japan is our friend and we will protect our friends.

 

Though IMO i feel we would sit this one out for awhile until shit hits the fan.

The thing i worry about is?

 

What would happen if we DO get involved in this crap??

 

Would our great leader on the hill put us in jeopardy and brake many years of relations just to

protect some rocks for our friends?

 

Then think about this.

What would happen with the future of new loved ones visas to the states?

Would China close the door on us?

 

Something to thing about.

Edited November 27, 2013 by NUWORLD (see edit history)

[NUWORLD]

Now being reported here in the states.

(The first i have seen on U.S. media reports)

 

US bombers cross China's claimed air defense zone

 

 

WASHINGTON (AP) - Days after China asserted greater military control over a swath of the East China Sea to bolster claims to a cluster of disputed islands, the U.S. defied the move Tuesday as it flew two B-52 bombers through the area.

The U.S. said what it described as a training mission was not flown to respond to China's latest military maneuver, yet the dramatic flights made clear that the U.S. will not recognize the new territorial claims that Beijing laid out over the weekend.

The two unarmed U.S. B-52 bombers took off from their home base in Guam and flew through China's newly designated air defense zone, then returned to base, U.S. officials said. The bombers were in the zone for less than an hour, thundering across the Pacific skies during midday there, the officials said, adding that the aircraft encountered no problems.

While the U.S. insisted the training mission was long-planned, it came just days after China issued a map and a new set of rules governing the zone, which includes a cluster of islands that are controlled by Japan but claimed by Beijing.

Edited November 27, 2013 by NUWORLD (see edit history)