An Eastern vs. Western Education

[Randy W]

. . . from the People's Daily

 

Some interesting thoughts in here that some of us might notta' thunk . . .

 

I'm not sure where the article came from, but it's credited to 'People's Daily Online'

 

Chinese immigrants' dilemma: oriental education or western education?

http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/203691/8435358.html

 

Western public schools aim to cultivate informed citizens by proving them with a basic education on issues of morality, culture and general life. A public school education cannot meet the same standards as an elite education in terms of teaching equipment, faculty and work intensity. Without the pressure of homework and exams, children in public schools may feel more relaxed and have more time for leisure. But their aspirations might rise no higher than a career as a cleaner, taxi driver, cook, supermarket cashier, security guard, firefighter, or librarian .

The civic education in western public schools may seem very successful. However, for Chinese parents with dreams of a place in the elite, it's hard to accept - "Do we abandon a successful career in China and start from zero in a strange place, just to see our child become a happy ordinary worker? "

 

 

. . . and the bottom line

 

In the Chinese education system, every child is cultivated to reach the top. Only 10 percent of them will succeed - there is room at the top for only a small number of people. However, China provides its parents with a dream, and an equal chance for everyone to receive an elite education. The Western system, which provides an elite education to only a small number of people, can be a good choice for parents of a more relaxed disposition. They will have the opportunity to raise their children in accordance with their own talents and wishes.

 

Edited October 28, 2013 by Randy W (see edit history)

[credzba]

I think we were just lucky, not really planned, but I believe our daughter got the optimal education from the 2 countries.

 

She grew up in China, and studied her butt off until 10th grade.

In 10th grade she came to America, and still worked hard, but really learned nothing educationally in 11th and 12th grade. What she did learn was English and culture for those 2 years, such that entry into college was easier.

 

She works hard all the time, so she probably would have done well no matter what, but those 2 "free" years in America before college really helped her excel in college. Those 10 years of hard work education in China gave her a basis that gave her an advantage over all the American educated children.

 

I have seen other kids come from China, with the same circumstances and they did not do as well.

Perhaps the answer is hard working kids will do well anywhere, and lazy kids will do poorly everywhere.

 

The only differences are in China, being lazy will get you kicked out of the system earlier.

In America you can be lazy and still get out of high school.

 

In the middle is where the decision is more difficult. If you are in the middle in China, you might as well be at the bottom (or close to it). In America, you can get a job, and a fairly decent life with just medium work, and medium intelligence.

[Mick]

Having worked in both systems, I tend to see the strengths and weaknesses of both. Like others have stated, the Chinese system is highly competitive and seems to instill a hard work ethic in most kids. The drawback I see with the Chinese system is its over-emphasis on examinations and memorization. My third year in China I did an experiment with some of my students. After giving them an exam, two weeks later I would give the same exam, this time without warning. On average, they scored 32 points lower on the second test, even though they had seen it before. The reason: they had already forgotten the things they memorized for the first test. So yes, they work hard and can do well on exams, but it seems much of what they learn slides off like on Teflon. I suspect this is less true in math and science, where the principles they memorized are used repeatedly and thus better retained. I also found the Chinese system to downplay creativity and out of the box thinking. Both of these are stronger in the western system I think. The Chinese system has many strengths and the western system has its share of weaknesses as well. I think Credzba made a good point in describing how his daughter benefited from both worlds. I suspect tsaps son is also an example.

[Guest ExChinaExpat]

 

 

In the Chinese education system, every child is cultivated to reach the top. Only 10 percent of them will succeed - there is room at the top for only a small number of people. However, China provides its parents with a dream, and an equal chance for everyone to receive an elite education. The Western system, which provides an elite education to only a small number of people, can be a good choice for parents of a more relaxed disposition. They will have the opportunity to raise their children in accordance with their own talents and wishes.

 

I cannot think of another country on earth, outside China, that considers an education at any facility in China as being "elite." To the contrary, China lags well behind the Western world in post-high school education, and none the college degrees awarded in China can be used outside China.

[amberjack1234]

 

In the Chinese education system, every child is cultivated to reach the top. Only 10 percent of them will succeed - there is room at the top for only a small number of people. However, China provides its parents with a dream, and an equal chance for everyone to receive an elite education. The Western system, which provides an elite education to only a small number of people, can be a good choice for parents of a more relaxed disposition. They will have the opportunity to raise their children in accordance with their own talents and wishes.

 

I cannot think of another country on earth, outside China, that considers an education at any facility in China as being "elite." To the contrary, China lags well behind the Western world in post-high school education, and none the college degrees awarded in China can be used outside China.

 

Jess, I get the same thing from my wife which has a masters degree in economics from Tianjin University. Now she does speak excellent english and always has. She worked for an international company in Beijing so she had to. She also speaks several other languages. She MIGHT be able to get a job outside of Walt-Mart or a chinese restaurant because of her english speaking ability and she can type 65 words per minute in english. We don't know because this is a small country town that we live in (about 12,000 people) but it being directly adjoining Camp Lejeune things are a little more easy for foreign nationals to obtain meaningful employment. Anyway I started a business and put it all in her name and she has done well in that. All of our wife's here have not been so lucky, mostly due to english speaking ability, but some have been more prosperous on their own than she has. I believe that Doug's ex-wife is the manager of a bank.

 

Larry

[Guest ExChinaExpat]

 

 

In the Chinese education system, every child is cultivated to reach the top. Only 10 percent of them will succeed - there is room at the top for only a small number of people. However, China provides its parents with a dream, and an equal chance for everyone to receive an elite education. The Western system, which provides an elite education to only a small number of people, can be a good choice for parents of a more relaxed disposition. They will have the opportunity to raise their children in accordance with their own talents and wishes.

 

I cannot think of another country on earth, outside China, that considers an education at any facility in China as being "elite." To the contrary, China lags well behind the Western world in post-high school education, and none the college degrees awarded in China can be used outside China.

 

Jess, I get the same thing from my wife which has a masters degree in economics from Tianjin University. Now she does speak excellent english and always has. She worked for an international company in Beijing so she had to. She also speaks several other languages. She MIGHT be able to get a job outside of Walt-Mart or a chinese restaurant because of her english speaking ability and she can type 65 words per minute in english. We don't know because this is a small country town that we live in (about 12,000 people) but it being directly adjoining Camp Lejeune things are a little more easy for foreign nationals to obtain meaningful employment. Anyway I started a business and put it all in her name and she has done well in that. All of our wife's here have not been so lucky, mostly due to english speaking ability, but some have been more prosperous on their own than she has. I believe that Doug's ex-wife is the manager of a bank.

 

Larry

 

 

China is locked into the old way of teaching and learning. That old way is as Mick described, memorization and test taking. If the top student does well in high school, they can go on to a top Chinese University. Chinese are hung up on University as Chinese colleges are akin to American vocational schools. However, the Chinese university focuses only on the major. Chinese students are not required or even offered the chance to fulfil a basic curricula that includes: History, Biology, Science, Economics, and so on. They just fast track into the topic and avoid everything else. They're rarely offered the opportunity to learn from anyone but a Chinese teacher who, by standard will not allow questions during class. It's part of the reason that most Chinese students sit like statues in class and avoid interaction. Very few if any foreign books are used. Only Chinese authored and language. It's a damned pity really.

Edited October 28, 2013 by GuangDongExpat (see edit history)

[credzba]

, and none the college degrees awarded in China can be used outside China.

That is not accurate at all.

The local college reviewed the courses my wife had taken in China, and mapped those to courses they offered, then granted her credit for all those courses and a equivalent degree based on that assessment.

[Randy W]

I worked with quite a few people who had gone on to Master's programs in the U.S. from college degrees in China, without any break in their credits.

[Guest ExChinaExpat]

 

, and none the college degrees awarded in China can be used outside China.

That is not accurate at all.

The local college reviewed the courses my wife had taken in China, and mapped those to courses they offered, then granted her credit for all those courses and a equivalent degree based on that assessment.

 

 

 

I worked with quite a few people who had gone on to Master's programs in the U.S. from college degrees in China, without any break in their credits.

 

 

There is a process whereby the Chinese college graduate can submit transcripts and course information/agenda to an American school or agency. Some colleges are listed for equivalency ratings, and many others are not. But, to think that a Chinese college graduate in medicine, engineering, accounting, or what have you can simply transfer to the US is not true. They must go back to school and complete all requirements for a specific curricula.

[Randy W]

 

 

, and none the college degrees awarded in China can be used outside China.

That is not accurate at all.

The local college reviewed the courses my wife had taken in China, and mapped those to courses they offered, then granted her credit for all those courses and a equivalent degree based on that assessment.

 

 

 

I worked with quite a few people who had gone on to Master's programs in the U.S. from college degrees in China, without any break in their credits.

 

 

There is a process whereby the Chinese college graduate can submit transcripts and course information/agenda to an American school or agency. Some colleges are listed for equivalency ratings, and many others are not. But, to think that a Chinese college graduate in medicine, engineering, accounting, or what have you can simply transfer to the US is not true. They must go back to school and complete all requirements for a specific curricula.

 

 

Glad you clarified what you REALLY meant.

[Guest ExChinaExpat]

 

Glad you clarified what you REALLY meant.

 

 

Yeah, I think I sent some mixed messages there. Apologies for that. The transfer process can be challenging, but it's not as if there is no way at all.

[Greg.D.]

I think this is a good thread. I have worked with Chinese grad students for .... 25 years? And, I still do. Now, I am mentoring a Chinese grad who wants to take the TOEFL and attend a US grad school. So, I am dealing with the differences every day. The Chinese student #1) obsesses about the score!!! 2) Is more likely to think memorization is the key to the top score 3) believes (because they were told) that long hours is superior to any other way of studying (as opposed to "work smarter, not harder"). This, despite me telling her repeatedly that the grad schools just want to know that you passed the TOEFL, not where your score ranked. She was taught (in TOEFL) class) that during her speaking test the key is to talk as quickly as possible and use as many words as possible - as far as I know, there is no correllation between word count and speakng effectiveness.

 

And, I now know things I wish I did not know about the quality of research (and the accompanying publications) from China as well as how traditional models of Chinese hierarchy and higher educaiton blend and grades and degrees are awarded. I winced a lot at some of the stories I've been told by various people.

 

For me, my take away right now is more and more of the elite are sending their children off to western countries for undergrad and grad schools - even high school now - and I think eventually, if even half of them return to live and work in China - they will influence the political culture somehow. It would probably be a plus to have a degree from the west - barring any kind of backlash against such people.

 

Greg

[Randy W]

One thing I found interesting when I was teaching was to change up some of the questions

 

For instance, in the text book, the question was

 

Which is the correct answer?

 

a) Wrong answer # 1

b) Wrong answer # 2

c) Correct answer

d) Wrong answer # 3

 

On the actual test, it became

Which is the correct answer?

 

a) Wrong answer # 1

b) Correct answer

c) Wrong answer # 2

d) Wrong answer # 3

 

Tripped up more than a few of them

[david_dawei]

The Chinese student #1) obsesses about the score!!! 2) Is more likely to think memorization is the key to the top score 3) believes (because they were told) that long hours is superior to any other way of studying (as opposed to "work smarter, not harder"). This, despite me telling her repeatedly that the grad schools just want to know that you passed the TOEFL, not where your score ranked. She was taught (in TOEFL) class) that during her speaking test the key is to talk as quickly as possible and use as many words as possible - as far as I know, there is no correllation between word count and speakng effectiveness.

 

Excellent post....

 

I find my step-daughter, first year of schooling is US is in a community college, struggling with all this... but I don't see that china's attempts at learning english is remotely close to preparing them for the US. Every class (history, economics, biology, accounting, english, etc) is an entirely new language to learn on some level... through brute force of long hours they can get through it but they are only prepared for this road for the most part.

 

And they can't seem to realize that talking fast and pronouncing most of the words wrong and strung sloppily together just makes one feel they don't really care about the language. This is one of the most pressing issues I have battled and am winning so far.

 

But for the chinese, the western education also is an escape from the pressure of the elite only issue. If they have the money (or can get it together), then there is a good chance they can go somewhere to school in the US. Their are more and more programs to assist with this, including HS exchange.

 

In the end, whether they can shift from rote, memorization to critical thinking skills is the real hope I have for their education.