Obtaining Birth Certificate

[leichadak]

My fiancee was born at home in 1990 and never got a birth certificate. She is from the countryside (Nong Cun). Her parents also split up after she was born. Her mother tried to put her up for adoption, but then was eventually raised by her grandmother who has now passed away. She unfortunately continues to have bad relations with her biological parents.

 

As we need a birth certificate to continue the K1 visa process, she gone and asked the Gong Zheng Chu (Public Notary Office) about obtaining a birth certificate, and they have told her that she needs to get a DNA test with her parents to prove that she is their child. The problem is that her mother refuses to take the test.

 

I'm lost now and don't know how I should proceed. I don't want my petition to go up in flames over a birth certificate, but I don't see what else we can do. Does anyone have suggestions?

Edited September 4, 2013 by leichadak (see edit history)

[Randy W]

DOCUMENT as well as you can, everything you and she have done to attempt to get the birth certificate, including (especially) the conversation with the Gong Zheng Chu and the mother.

 

If ANY document is unobtainable, you should submit a statement of WHY it is unobtainable, and what effort you made to obtain it.

 

I would suggest drawing up a statement showing the facts of her birth (date, time, mother father, place of birth) as far as she knows them, and having this statement notarized - even by an American notary if necessary.

 

Does she have a Chinese ID? Does she have a hukou (household registry)? The hukou is the official record, and should have all the information necessary.

[dnoblett]

Some auggestions.

 

In cases where the birth certificate record is unavailable from the authorities, then a sworn affidavit by either of the parents is required. If parents are no longer alive, then any close relative (like uncle, or a close family friend) older than the applicant may provide such affidavit.

 

This affidavit must be accompanied with a certificate of Non availability or No record of the birth certificate from the concern dist. office/government authority.

 

If the affidavit is provided by the relative, it must state the relationship with the applicant, how well the person/deponent knows the applicant, date and place of the applicant's birth, names of both the parents, and any other related facts.

 

Requirements in brief:

 

Non Availability Certificate from the Municipality/Government authority of the place where the applicant was born. It should state/confirm that the birth record/certificate does not or no longer exists.

 

Affidavit.

 

Note: This affidavit does not have a unique format identified by INS, hence different attorneys may have different layouts.

 

A sample affidavit (by Applicant's mother)

 

AFFIDAVIT

 

I, (mother's) last name (maiden name) first name, wife of (spouse) last name first name, being duly sworn, do depose and make the following statements:

 

I was born in place of birth, State, Country on Date Of Birth.

 

I am married to (spouse) last name first name on date (of their marriage).

 

I am the mother of (your) last name first name and (your father's) last name first name is his/her father.

 

(Your) last (family)name first (given) name was born on date (of birth in MM/DD/YYYY) at time (of birth am/pm) in City, State, province, Country.

 

Signature:

 

Date:

 

N O T A R Y

http://www.path2usa.com/us-birth-certificate

 

Get at least two of these, one for Guangzhou and the other to be brought to the states for marriage and adjustment of status.

[Randy W]

But keep in mind that by the time she does that, she's THIS close to getting a real birth certificate anyway.

[newacct]

You do not have an unusual case -- It is very common for people born in China to not have birth certificates. Going to Gong Zheng Chu with the hukou to get a notorial certificate is the standard procedure for Chinese people immigrating to the U.S. It's the notorial certificate (with translation) that you need, not a "birth certificate". I haven't heard of them needing DNA tests; it should be sufficient that you are listed on the hukou as their child. Maybe try again at another time and talk to another person there?

[leichadak]

Her Hukou does not list any other family members. I also seem to understand that if it were to list other family members, it would only contain her grandmother who is now passed away. Do other Chinese people's hukous have their other family members listed in it?

[Randy W]

Her Hukou does not list any other family members. I also seem to understand that if it were to list other family members, it would only contain her grandmother who is now passed away. Do other Chinese people's hukous have their other family members listed in it?

 

 

You need to be telling US what's going on there. the hukou book is the "Household Registry" and should contain all information needed to produce a birth certificate.

 

Was she entered into a hukou with her family at any point in her life? DOES SHE HAVE A CHINESE ID? DOES SHE HAVE A PASSPORT? What document did she use to obtain these? Who are her parents (no, don't answer that, just tell us whether she knows and whether it states their names in any of these documents)? Do these documents show her date of birth?

 

Was she given a NEW hukou later in life without any other family members?

 

Are you saying that now because her hukou has no family members that the Gong Zheng Chu is refusing to giver her a birth certificate? Does the mother have a hukou which shows her daughter?

 

There are a couple of people in China who are known to members of this forum and may be able to help you out. I'll get you their contact information shortly.

 

Remember that the U.S. doesn't TELL China what their vital documents should show - the U.S. authorities should accept what's available, but you also need to show that you made every effort to get it. Don't think you're on an impossible mission here.

[leichadak]

Was she entered into a hukou with her family at any point in her life?

- (Will ask her)

 

DOES SHE HAVE A CHINESE ID?

- Yes.

 

DOES SHE HAVE A PASSPORT?

- Yes.

 

What document did she use to obtain these?

- (Will ask her)

 

Who are her parents (no, don't answer that, just tell us whether she knows and whether it states their names in any of these documents)?

- As far as I know, her parents names are not listed in any documents. I'll have to ask her more about this.

 

Do these documents show her date of birth?

- There is a date of birth on the documents, however, as I understand it, nobody in the family can agree to when exactly she was born (including the year(!!!)), and no one can remember clearly. Her ID card has a date on it that she has been using as her "official" birth date for her whole life, but she personally believes her birth date is incorrect and she celebrates her birthday about two weeks before her "official" birthday.

 

Was she given a NEW hukou later in life without any other family members?

- (Will ask her).

 

Are you saying that now because her hukou has no family members that the Gong Zheng Chu is refusing to giver her a birth certificate?

- It seems to me like this is the case, and that's why they're saying that she will need to get a (4500RMB) DNA test (which her mother refuses to take) in order to be granted a birth certificate.

 

Does the mother have a hukou which shows her daughter?

- (Will ask her).

Edited September 6, 2013 by leichadak (see edit history)

[Beachey]

You have gotten some good advice here. My wife has her own separate hokou from her family that she obtained after she graduated from college. She had no problem getting a Notarial Birth Certificate from Gong Zheng Chu. My impression is the certificate just stated what was on the Hokou. You may be over complicating this, take the Hoku to the Notarial Service and ask for a Notarial Birth Certificate.

 

As for her exact birth date, this too is very common. Just use the birth date you can document and move on. When she wants to celebrate her birthday is up to her and the US government doesn't care. As it is, my wife expects me to remember both her Western calendar birthday and her Chinese Calendar birth day which moves around like Spring festival does.

[Randy W]

You have gotten some good advice here. My wife has her own separate hokou from her family that she obtained after she graduated from college. She had no problem getting a Notarial Birth Certificate from Gong Zheng Chu. My impression is the certificate just stated what was on the Hokou. You may be over complicating this, take the Hoku to the Notarial Service and ask for a Notarial Birth Certificate.

 

As for her exact birth date, this too is very common. Just use the birth date you can document and move on. When she wants to celebrate her birthday is up to her and the US government doesn't care. As it is, my wife expects me to remember both her Western calendar birthday and her Chinese Calendar birth day which moves around like Spring festival does.

 

Yes, exactly, but I'm thinking that if the parents names were in her hukou book, the birth certificate would have been issued. If that's the case (that her parents names are there and the birth certificate was still refused), simply go to a different Gong Zheng Chu in a different city, if need be.

 

I'll add that the date the MATTERS is the one Beachey is referring to - the one that can be documented.

[Beachey]

 

 

 

 

I just asked my wife and her parents names are not on her hokou but were added on her Notarial birth certificate. She said she had more documentation that they used so maybe the OP's problem is real.

 

Still, I would think the consulate would accept a white book as long as it had a birthdate on it even if it did not give who the parents were.

[Randy W]

 

 

 

 

 

I just asked my wife and her parents names are not on her hokou but were added on her Notarial birth certificate. She said she had more documentation that they used so maybe the OP's problem is real.

 

Still, I would think the consulate would accept a white book as long as it had a birthdate on it even if it did not give who the parents were.

 

 

It's the Consulate's responsibility to recognize and accept ANY official documentation from China - so the problem is simply to get one issued in the first place.

 

I keep thinking that if she has a Chinese ID and is able to get a passport that the birth certificate shouldn't be a problem, either. But if the authorities actually do refuse to issue one, he needs to document the efforts they made. The consulate can contact the Gong Zheng Chu directly if they need to verify anything.

[leichadak]

Here is the answer to the rest of the questions:

 

Was she entered into a hukou with her family at any point in her life?

- Not with her parents. She used to be in a hukou with her grandparents and aunts and uncles. When the grandparents died and her aunt got married, she got her own hukou.

What document did she use to obtain the passport?

- She said she just simple got her ID card and (possibly) hukou book, and just went to apply for it. She said it was very easy.

Who are her parents (no, don't answer that, just tell us whether she knows and whether it states their names in any of these documents)?

- I asked her about it, and she says she has never been in any documents with her parents, as they had her when they were not of legal marrying age, among other complications.

Does the mother have a hukou which shows her daughter?

- No.

[Randy W]

So what is the hang-up? Are they actually REFUSING to issue a birth certificate without the DNA test? Have you gone to a different Gong Zheng Chu?

 

I expect that there are plenty of children who were abandoned and grew up without any legal parents, so I doubt this is a unique situation.

 

DOCUMENT as well as you can, everything you and she have done to attempt to get the birth certificate, including (especially) the conversation with the Gong Zheng Chu and the mother.

 

If ANY document is unobtainable, you should submit a statement of WHY it is unobtainable, and what effort you made to obtain it.

 

I would suggest drawing up a statement showing the facts of her birth (date, time, mother father, place of birth) as far as she knows them, and having this statement notarized - even by an American notary if necessary.

 

Does she have a Chinese ID? Does she have a hukou (household registry)? The hukou is the official record, and should have all the available information necessary.

[Randy W]

Maybe I need to more directly ask - you (or her) are not INSISTING that they put the parent's names on it, are you? Is that the hold up?

 

That is, are they refusing to issue one with her parent's name(s) on it, or are they refusing to issue one at all?