Second Child in China?

[Fu Lai]

Me and my mate would like to produce a child together. We live in Wuhan, Hubei, PRC. I am an American, she is Chinese. She has a Chinese child from a previous marriage. So this would be her second child. What is the official policy about this? Can she have a child with me in marriage without penalty?

[Randy W]

Me and my mate would like to produce a child together. We live in Wuhan, Hubei, PRC. I am an American, she is Chinese. She has a Chinese child from a previous marriage. So this would be her second child. What is the official policy about this? Can she have a child with me in marriage without penalty?

 

You have two choices - contact her hukou to find out what their policy is, or to register the child's American citizenship.

[warpedbored]

I'll take a shot at is but I'm sure someone else will come along with more information. The Chinese one child policy doesn't care about the second child's father's nationality. Several years ago a member was going through the visa process with his pregnant wife in China. She had another child from a prior marriage. They were relentless in trying to make her have an abortion. Finally she went into hiding with a relative until the child was born. After the child was born they got the child a US passport through the consulate and finally when her visa was approved they obtained an exit visa for the child and came to the US. I tried to find the topic but I couldn't find anything prior to the baby being born.

[Fu Lai]

 

Me and my mate would like to produce a child together. We live in Wuhan, Hubei, PRC. I am an American, she is Chinese. She has a Chinese child from a previous marriage. So this would be her second child. What is the official policy about this? Can she have a child with me in marriage without penalty?

 

You have two choices - contact her hukou to find out what their policy is, or to register the child's American citizenship.

 

So, ask someone else? Or register the child as an American? Wouldn't an American child have to pay much more to live in China (we do not have any plan to ever move to the USA)?

[Randy W]

On 8/2/2013 at 1:17 PM, Fu Lai said:

 

On 8/2/2013 at 12:32 PM, Randy W said:

 

On 8/2/2013 at 12:14 PM, Fu Lai said:

Me and my mate would like to produce a child together. We live in Wuhan, Hubei, PRC. I am an American, she is Chinese. She has a Chinese child from a previous marriage. So this would be her second child. What is the official policy about this? Can she have a child with me in marriage without penalty?

You have two choices - contact her hukou to find out what their policy is, or to register the child's American citizenship.

So, ask someone else? Or register the child as an American? Wouldn't an American child have to pay much more to live in China (we do not have any plan to ever move to the USA)?

Yes - policies are pretty much put into effect at the local level. So finding a knowledgeable neighbor may be preferable to tipping your hand at the PSB.

An American child living in China would be perfectly legal. I'm simply suggesting that as a possible alternative, in case there are no better options.

 

 

Edited February 21, 2021 by Randy W (see edit history)

[newacct]

 

 

Me and my mate would like to produce a child together. We live in Wuhan, Hubei, PRC. I am an American, she is Chinese. She has a Chinese child from a previous marriage. So this would be her second child. What is the official policy about this? Can she have a child with me in marriage without penalty?

 

You have two choices - contact her hukou to find out what their policy is, or to register the child's American citizenship.

 

So, ask someone else? Or register the child as an American? Wouldn't an American child have to pay much more to live in China (we do not have any plan to ever move to the USA)?

 

 

At birth, the child will automatically be a Chinese citizen and (assuming you have been present in the U.S. anytime in your life for 5 years, including 2 after the age of 14) also a U.S. citizen. The nationality is determined by each country's laws and is not under your control.

 

The hukou is a separate issue. However, since in your case since the child will live in China in the long term, I don't think it's possible to avoid the hukou.

[Randy W]

The problem is that China does not recognize dual citizenship. By claiming American citizenship for the child, it will no longer be possible to claim Chinese citizenship, until the American citizenship is renounced.

 

The hukou IS the issue for Fu Lai, as I understand it (Correct me if I'm wrong on that). If it is possible to include the child in his mother's hukou, that would solve the issue entirely. China's one child policy may preclude that option, however.

 

This doesn't apply to Fu Lai's case, but may help understanding - as I understand what I've read on other forums, Chinese law treats a child born to a British citizen parent differently from how it treats American citizenship. The British citizenship must be explicitly renounced before the child can claim it's Chinese citizenship - this is not true of a child born to an American citizen parent.

 

We've had people who have successfully claimed American citizenship and gotten passports and exit visas for their children born in China. This approach is not affected by the one-child policy (except for the pressure to abort that Warpedboard cited). But no one that I recall has tried to follow Fu Lai's approach.

[Fu Lai]

Hopefully we can have a child without paying some fine. i would think the child would be Chinese but at some future date could change to American if it wanted.

[Randy W]

Hopefully we can have a child without paying some fine. i would think the child would be Chinese but at some future date could change to American if it wanted.

What you need to know is whether the child can be registered in your wife's hukou.

 

But yes, American citizehship can be claimed at any time. Chinese citizenship must apply for re-instatement once it has been renounced, but I believe this is not a problem up to the age of 18.

[newacct]

The problem is that China does not recognize dual citizenship. By claiming American citizenship for the child, it will no longer be possible to claim Chinese citizenship, until the American citizenship is renounced.

 

You don't "claim" citizenship. Citizenship is mandated by law at birth. There is no such thing as "claiming" citizenship for U.S. or China, because the child either has citizenship at birth, or he/she does not. If you can apply for documents, it means the child was already a citizen at birth; but they would be a citizen even if you don't apply for anything.

 

According to Article 4 of the Nationality Law of the People's Republic of China, someone born in China to at least one Chinese citizen parent automatically has Chinese nationality. No exceptions. No provision for you to refuse it.

 

Similarly for the U.S. If the parent satisfies the conditions for trasmitting citizenship at birth, the baby is a automatically U.S. citizen at birth. Again, there is no way for you to refuse it. Even if you never get any documents, the baby is a U.S. citizen in the eyes of U.S. law. Also, under U.S. law, a U.S. citizen cannot involuntarily lose U.S. citizenship. Renunciation of U.S. citizenship has to be applied for and approved by the U.S. And parents cannot renounce U.S. citizenship for their child.

 

China "does not recognize that its citizens possess dual nationality" (Article 3) meaning that China will ignore any other nationalities its citizens have.

Edited August 2, 2013 by newacct (see edit history)

[david_dawei]

 

An American child living in China would be perfectly legal. I'm simply suggesting that as a possible alternative, in case there are no better options.

 

True... with the proper visa. The headache would be maintain the visa status over long periods of time.

Edited August 2, 2013 by david_dawei (see edit history)

[david_dawei]

 

Hopefully we can have a child without paying some fine. i would think the child would be Chinese but at some future date could change to American if it wanted.

What you need to know is whether the child can be registered in your wife's hukou.

 

The basic answer is yes.

 

Although the hukou will look at the birth paper which will show the father's name [as non-chinese] and there is no further checking that can be really done. But the child normally will go on the hukou and that is a big benefit over getting the USC recognized with papers. Once the latter is done, they cannot stay on the Hukou (as you pointed out). IMO, the Hukou will make most everything in china easier for the child, starting with school.

[david_dawei]

 

The problem is that China does not recognize dual citizenship. By claiming American citizenship for the child, it will no longer be possible to claim Chinese citizenship, until the American citizenship is renounced.

 

China "does not recognize that its citizens possess dual nationality" (Article 3) meaning that China will ignore any other nationalities its citizens have.

 

 

The problem arises when the US paperwork/passport/visa is acquired, then the person usually loses their Hukou... ergo, their chinese national ID number.

 

Most I've read/heard from will milk the Hukou/forego the US passport for as long as the child is in china.

[newacct]

 

 

The problem is that China does not recognize dual citizenship. By claiming American citizenship for the child, it will no longer be possible to claim Chinese citizenship, until the American citizenship is renounced.

 

China "does not recognize that its citizens possess dual nationality" (Article 3) meaning that China will ignore any other nationalities its citizens have.

 

 

The problem arises when the US paperwork/passport/visa is acquired, then the person usually loses their Hukou... ergo, their chinese national ID number.

 

Most I've read/heard from will milk the Hukou/forego the US passport for as long as the child is in china.

 

 

But if one day the child needs to visit the U.S. (even briefly, just as a tourist), they will need a U.S. passport. Surely you're not gonna avoid the U.S. forever?

Edited August 2, 2013 by newacct (see edit history)

[Randy W]

 

But if one day the child needs to visit the U.S. (even briefly, just as a tourist), they will need a U.S. passport. Surely you're not gonna avoid the U.S. forever?

 

 

 

This is true for every Chinese citizen - most, however, do not have the option of an American passport.

 

 

You don't "claim" citizenship. Citizenship is mandated by law at birth. There is no such thing as "claiming" citizenship for U.S. or China, because the child either has citizenship at birth, or he/she does not. If you can apply for documents, it means the child was already a citizen at birth; but they would be a citizen even if you don't apply for anything.

 

According to Article 4 of the Nationality Law of the People's Republic of China, someone born in China to at least one Chinese citizen parent automatically has Chinese nationality. No exceptions. No provision for you to refuse it.

 

Yes, you do. Many do exactly that - refuse their Chinese citizenship and acquire a foreign passport instead. The Chinese authorities issue an exit visa to allow them to leave the country under their foreign passport. A Chinese passport, ID, and hukou registration will not be available to these citizens.

 

Similarly for the U.S. If the parent satisfies the conditions for trasmitting citizenship at birth, the baby is a automatically U.S. citizen at birth. Again, there is no way for you to refuse it. Even if you never get any documents, the baby is a U.S. citizen in the eyes of U.S. law. Also, under U.S. law, a U.S. citizen cannot involuntarily lose U.S. citizenship. Renunciation of U.S. citizenship has to be applied for and approved by the U.S. And parents cannot renounce U.S. citizenship for their child.

 

China "does not recognize that its citizens possess dual nationality" (Article 3) meaning that China will ignore any other nationalities its citizens have.

 

 

More than simply ignoring - if a Chinese citizen is discovered to have acquired foreign citizenship, their passport is voided, and they may lose their hukou registration (although this doesn't always happen automatically).

 

You are arguing over the semantics of what "being a citizen" means - the discussion here is over how the BENEFITS (passport, Chinese ID,and hukou registration in this case) of "being a citizen" can be utilized. These benefits will not be available to Fu Lai's child if he claims his American citizenship, unless the American passport is not used.