Do not Confuse Confucious with Santa Claus

[Randy W]

Do not confuse Confucious with Christian Saint Nicholas

 

 

 

The ancient teacher is known by many names; he's King Kung, Master Kong or just K'ung Fu-tzu. But unlike the biblical Saint Nicholas, alias Santa Claus, Confucius isn't a Christian saint but a Chinese sage; more correctly: Confucius a shengren.

 

The shengren of Confucianism (there are hundreds of them) - like the buddhas of Buddhism - are un-European. They cultivate the ideal personality and become the highest members in the family-based Chinese value tradition.

 

. . .

 

As long as Western China scholarship floats on misleading European terminology, the West isn't learning anything new from Asia. In this century, it will be necessary to depart from some Western erroneous translations. The East isn't just an appendix to the Western lingo; it has more to offer than the West could ever satisfactorily translate.

 

The key is to adopt Chinese terminologies. So that, one day, we may have something, anything really, to celebrate for being truly and faithfully Chinese.

[Dan R]

Who has connected Buddha with Santa Claus? Seems an odd connection to make. There is one Buddha and many Buddhasatvahs. Anyway it originates in India not China. There are many sects of Buddhism originating in each Asian country. Tibet Buddism is just one of the many sects. I do agree that using Western terminology obscures the meaning of Asian philosophy. Confucius represents one branch of Chinese philosophy unconnected with Buddhism.

[Randy W]

Who has connected Buddha with Santa Claus? Seems an odd connection to make. There is one Buddha and many Buddhasatvahs. Anyway it originates in India not China. There are many sects of Buddhism originating in each Asian country. Tibet Buddism is just one of the many sects. I do agree that using Western terminology obscures the meaning of Asian philosophy. Confucius represents one branch of Chinese philosophy unconnected with Buddhism.

 

To the Western missionaries in the 17th century and thereafter, Confucius was erroneously believed to idolize the Christian God, and thus ought to be a true "saint," just like, say, our Western Saint Jerome or Saint Benedict.

 

. . .

 

But unlike the biblical Saint Nicholas, alias Santa Claus, Confucius isn't a Christian saint but a Chinese sage; more correctly: Confucius a shengren.

 

The point of the article.

[Fu Lai]

Santa is not Chairman Mao either.

[david_dawei]

It is an somewhat interesting article but I am not sure that Confucius should be confused with Shengren.

 

First off: Confucius was 'this-wordly' not 'other-worldly' the way Buddhism and Daoism are. He was a humanist through and through and was a hallmark of rites and customs and education. He looked back to the Zhou Dynasty and the Sage-Kings where rule and society was said to be a model.

 

For the Daoist, the Sage-Kings were considered a period of decline as they represented the lost of 'living naturally' and the institutionalizing of life.

 

The closest Confucius came to being 'spiritual' was that he believed strongly in ancestor worship and once made a comment about not offending 'shen' (spirits). He himself was never worshipped or immortalized the way that Lao Zi and Buddha were.

 

This quote is quite telling:

The Chinese termsheng appears 260 times in the Huainanzi, 48 times in Mengzi, 132 times in the ChunQiu Fan Lu, 157 times in Xunzi, 33 times in Laozi, 149 times in Zhuangzi, 40 times in theYi Qing, and a whopping 185 times in The Records of the Grand Historian. Yet, despiteits omnipresence, Western scholars obviously never read those books nor used thatterm. Why?

One may note that the author [maybe unknowingly] admit that Sheng does not appear in any of Confucius's works ! LOL

 

In fact, Confucius does use the word in his writings but he did not apply that to himself as much as he applied the word "Jun Zi" (the perfect virtuous man). Virtue/ethics was his rule... not lofty wisdom and deep understanding into realms beyond the senses as often said of the Sheng Ren (sages).

 

From Confucius: "Superior Man" = Jun Zi. "Sage" = Sheng Ren

 

"A high officer asked Zi Gong, saying, "May we not say that your Master is a sage? How various is his ability!" Zi Gong said, "Certainly Heaven has endowed him unlimitedly. He is about a sage. And, moreover, his ability is various." The Master heard of the conversation and said, "Does the high officer know me? When I was young, my condition was low, and therefore I acquired my ability in many things, but they were mean matters. Must the superior man have such variety of ability? He does not need variety of ability." -- Tr. Legge

 

Confucius said, "There are three things of which the superior man stands in awe. He stands in awe of the ordinances of Heaven. He stands in awe of great men. He stands in awe of the words of sages. The mean man does not know the ordinances of Heaven, and consequently does not stand in awe of them. He is disrespectful to great men. He makes sport of the words of sages." -- Tr. Legge

Edited December 21, 2012 by david_dawei (see edit history)

[tsap seui]

I don't know of anyone who would, or even could confuce Confusion with Santa Klaus. Besides, Confusion writes clever sayings and puts them in fortune cookies....and Santa eats cookies. One is skinny and the other is fat, One has round eyes, etc etc etc...and while I could pitcher Confusion on an elephant maybe, it would be a stretch to pitcher him in a sleigh with a bunch of raindeer, one with a red nose, pullin' him through snow. I ain't never seed no snow in a pitcher of Confusion. And could you jes pitcher some skinny Ho Chi Minh lookin' guy riding an elephant through the sky landin' on people houses giving out Christmas gifts. Lord help the peoples roofs when 30 pounds of elephant dung lands on them with a loud wet PLOP.

 

Confusion mistaken for Santa....somebody would have to be mighty Confuscioued.....or awful drunk.

 

But I do have to admit, it has been very easy for me to confuse Uncle Sam for Santa. I always looked at Uncle Sam as a taker of gifts. Shucks, of late ol' Uncle Sammy gives me more gifts than Santa could even git on his sleigh. Mebbe I should call him Uncle Santa. He's got a load of gifts jes waitin' to give Mick too.

 

Who ever heard of such a thang? t

 

sap seui

[Urkidding]

On 12/22/2012 at 2:41 AM, tsap seui said:

I don't know of anyone who would, or even could confuce Confusion with Santa Klaus. Besides, Confusion writes clever sayings and puts them in fortune cookies....and Santa eats cookies.

 

Just like to the one I found in my fortune cookie last night after that fine Chinese dinner... it said:

 

Edited October 17, 2021 by Randy W (see edit history)

[Fu Lai]

Confucius or Santa Claus in Chinese Cultural War

 

12/28/2006-- The popularity of Christmas in China has provoked a boisterous discussion over 'an invasion' of foreign culture and the loss of China's own cultural identity.

 

'Confucius or Santa Claus?' is the question posed by Internet forums and state media commentaries.

 

As interest in Western holidays rises, indifference is developing toward traditional festivals, such as the Chinese Lunar New Year and the Dragon Boat Festival, warned the People's Daily, the communist party's newspaper.

 

The precipitator of the debate was an online petition by 10 doctoral students from China's best universities that called for China to show Santa Claus the door and better cultivate Chinese traditions.

 

The petition seeks to 'wake up the Chinese people to resist Western cultural invasion' which, it said, 'has been more like storms sweeping through the country rather than mild showers'.

 

The petition said that most Chinese do not know the reason behind celebrating Christmas.

 

The uncritical enthusiasm is no isolated phenomenon as Western culture with its technological and economic dominance expands throughout China and the country shifts toward a more Western oriented society, the petition said.

 

The student's petition blamed the government for promoting the economy at the expense of Chinese traditions and businessmen seeking to improve their sales.

 

The petition has been unusually resonant in China.

 

On the Internet portal sina.com, 43,000 people participated in an online poll in which 53 percent called for a boycott of Christmas while 30 percent said it should be up to individuals to decide whether they would participate in the holiday, which is being increasingly celebrated in China along with Valentine's Day.

 

Commentators have swung back and forth between tolerance and nationalism.

 

The People's Daily said the attractiveness of Christmas is easy to understand because it is 'new and fresh ... and fascinating'.

 

Every person is free to celebrate Christmas, it said while adding, however, that it is 'urgent' that China revives its own festivals and holidays and adapts them from their agricultural roots to mirror China's changing, modern society.

 

'It has to be recognised that the craving of kids and young people for Christmas indeed has an effect on them from an 'alien, imported' culture,' the People's Daily said.

 

Christmas is observed in China as a religious holiday by its tiny Christian minority, but for the rest of the population, it pops up as Christmas trees and decorations festooning shopping centres, hotels and restaurants.

 

Children receive presents, friends send Christmas text messages by cell phones and young people enjoy a night out on the town on Christmas eve.

 

'The petition has poured cold water on the warm atmosphere of celebrating Christmas in China,' the official Xinhua news agency said.

 

'It does not matter whether non-Western nations are willing or not, they are all included in a global value system,' it said. '... The culture of the developed always prevails'.

 

However, it also warned, 'If we lose the dominance in culture in our own country, we will get lost totally'.

 

The Jiangnan Times said the campaign against Christmas flew in the face of cultural development and showed a lack of confidence in China's traditional culture.

 

'Tolerance is needed towards the celebration of Christmas,' the Changjiang Times said, arguing that it was 'natural' that China is seeing 'earth-shaking changes' to its lifestyles and ideas as its connections with the outside world grows.

 

It said the national culture was not at risk from foreign holidays but the students' petition was a reminder of the days when China isolated itself from the rest of the world.

 

'A narrow, biased and conservative mind goes against the values of the time and may bring up autocracy, coercion and harm to freedom and rights,' it warned

(Contributed by Asia Pacific News.net)