The New York Times and Chinese Politics

[BilLing]

i'm a member of a local group of expats and english speaking chinese that meet weekly here in CQ (ChongQing) for english discussion of various topics. Bo and Wang have been on the menu for awhile now. After Wang's problems began to develop he posted a scathing letter denouncing Bo via the internet just prior to his trip to Chengdu. the authorities were obviously watching him for he was detained immediately after leaving the consulate. unofficial reports say he is ungoing "psychological evaluation".

 

as for Bo he is certainly popular for the most part here. when i 1st came to CQ in 07' the city's metropolitan population was around 3.2 million. it's allegedly over 7 now with Bo's stated goal of 1 million added a year. construction is crazy, money pouring into infrastructure primarily to the north although the older penisula currently has 2 more bridges under construction with new housing replacing old constantly. the changes in CQ in merely 5 years are remarkable.

 

as a sadder note it's disturbing to see how CQs management has ignored their structural heritage. of the city's original 18 gates built mostly during the Ming dynasty, only 8 remain. you can see evidence of the walls from them all over older YuZhong, but they have been built upon numerous times and aren't being protected.

[Randy W]

Jesse, the people who make the decisions in China are the Communist Party's Propaganda Bureau, which is nowhere near as sinister as it sounds in the west. Basically, a large, behind-the-scenes and largely invisible clearing house. There's no public accountability. Whatever checks and balances to what they do must come from the Communist Party itself - "under the leadership of the Communist Party" is a key phrase in the Constitution that carries as much weight as anything else in the Constitution.

 

For now, we have a benevolent Party, which I believe DOES have the best interest of the country in mind. Long term, however, it will depend on what checks and balances exist within the Party and how well they adapt to changing conditions. The cat is out of the bag as far as access to Western sources of information, and will only continue to become more so, as more and more people are graduating with newspaper-level English reading capabilities.

Edited February 20, 2012 by Randy W (see edit history)

[Guest ExChinaExpat]

All points I make to my liberal friends---news can't be censored for those who truly seek it in China----the "Great Wall" isn't that great.

 

But for the average citizen, watching the news ( and when I tune in) its all kind of depressing. Obviously when traveling, the best source is during phone calls from home---I can ask specific questions, for specific answers. Yes, if I were domiciled in China, I would do what you do----develop alternate sources----but as the Chongqing story suggests --- there is a lack of hard evidence---both in China and the Western press on this subject.

Somewhere in the midst of all this lay a mystery. Well, at least it's a mystery to me, because I am one of those who does not support allowing any and all information to be available to anyone and everyone anytime, and anywhere. So, with that said begins the great dilemma. Just who are these people who make the decisions about what is okay, and what is not okay to see and read? Even in the US, the moral police have a kind of line that should not be crossed when it comes to sexual stuff. There are scads of invisible PC topics, which Americans have been heavily trained to avoid. The "I'm offended police" are active in every school and workplace. It's hard to learn how to get step by step procedures on how to make your own nuke, or shoulder fired missle. They don't take kindly to those who talk about anti-US muslim rallies. No matter what, someone's perspective and opinion will always be tread upon.

 

Personally, and I mean also seriously, I don't see the US as being any more free when it comes to the exchange of information. China is not a police state. People talk, speak, write, and express their opinions freely and actively. Chinese people seem to be more interested in talking about LinMania than about the political topics coming from the Western media.

 

 

Jesse, the people who make the decisions in China are the Communist Party's Propaganda Bureau, which is nowhere near as sinister as it sounds in the west. Basically, a large, behind-the-scenes and largely invisible clearing house. There's no public accountability. Whatever checks and balances to what they do must come from the Communist Party itself - "under the leadership of the Communist Party" is a key phrase in the Constitution that carries as much weight as anything else in the Constitution.

 

For now, we have a benevolent Party, which I believe DOES have the best interest of the country in mind. Long term, however, it will depend on what checks and balances exist within the Party and how well they adapt to changing conditions. The cat is out of the bag as far as access to Western sources of information, and will only continue to become more so, as more and more people are graduating with newspaper-level English reading capabilities.

 

Actually, I was speaking metaphorically/philosophically. Everyone knows who controls Chinese media. But, most Americans haven't a clue at just how much their day to day lives are also controlled. My point was that regardless how much any country thinks their controls are open and fair, that the choices are made by fallible humans with an ever shifting measuring stick to suit the current need. Shining a light on some things may help keep people better informed. Controls are necessary to maintain order also.

Edited February 20, 2012 by JiangsuExpat (see edit history)

[Robert S.]

China's pollution is damaging their own and the entire world's environment.

[knloregon]

"..Shining a light on some things may help keep people better informed. Controls are necessary to maintain order also. .."

 

Not sure about these controls in a western society, JE---China I will concede, to some extent. The free press will follow stories it feels compelled to follow, and to the extent that it does that, its useful and informative.

 

The problem is, (like the NYT) and other print sources, there are stories they botch, and because the 'liberal press' is overwhelming in control of the print media, there are really no checks and balances.

 

For instance, the example I cite above---The NYT's Edward Wong (lead reporter of the Uighur massacre of 7/09) would have been skinned alive, if he were the lead reporter of the 911 twin tower attacks----and spent the bulk of the first part of his reporting describing the atrocities the US has perpetrated on Muslim nations, as a way to describe (and understand) the motives of the terrorists.

 

But his similar reporting of the massacre of the Han went essentially unchallenged but the liberal press.

[griz326]

The western invasion of Chinese politics concerns me greatly. I only hope that China does not lose her way in the blur of modern reporting of politics and life.

[Guest ExChinaExpat]

"..Shining a light on some things may help keep people better informed. Controls are necessary to maintain order also. .."

 

Not sure about these controls in a western society, JE---China I will concede, to some extent. The free press will follow stories it feels compelled to follow, and to the extent that it does that, its useful and informative.

 

The problem is, (like the NYT) and other print sources, there are stories they botch, and because the 'liberal press' is overwhelming in control of the print media, there are really no checks and balances.

 

For instance, the example I cite above---The NYT's Edward Wong (lead reporter of the Uighur massacre of 7/09) would have been skinned alive, if he were the lead reporter of the 911 twin tower attacks----and spent the bulk of the first part of his reporting describing the atrocities the US has perpetrated on Muslim nations, as a way to describe (and understand) the motives of the terrorists.

 

But his similar reporting of the massacre of the Han went essentially unchallenged but the liberal press.

 

Agree. There really never were checks and balances in any press. So, learning the truth about a story requires a lot of research. It would be an interesting study to learn what people are most gullible when it comes to knee-jerk reaction to media stories.

[Randy W]

"..Shining a light on some things may help keep people better informed. Controls are necessary to maintain order also. .."

 

Not sure about these controls in a western society, JE---China I will concede, to some extent. The free press will follow stories it feels compelled to follow, and to the extent that it does that, its useful and informative.

 

The problem is, (like the NYT) and other print sources, there are stories they botch, and because the 'liberal press' is overwhelming in control of the print media, there are really no checks and balances.

 

For instance, the example I cite above---The NYT's Edward Wong (lead reporter of the Uighur massacre of 7/09) would have been skinned alive, if he were the lead reporter of the 911 twin tower attacks----and spent the bulk of the first part of his reporting describing the atrocities the US has perpetrated on Muslim nations, as a way to describe (and understand) the motives of the terrorists.

 

But his similar reporting of the massacre of the Han went essentially unchallenged but the liberal press.

 

But that's just it - the New York Times IS unchallenged in its coverage of China. The Wall Street Journal seems fluffy by comparison, and you won't see that level of coverage from the Communist media. I don't see that changing anytime in the near future.

 

The key is in learning to read for information - learn to recognize when facts are being presented and when opinions and conjecture without background information creep in. I often get the impression that the right wing takes the "liberal press" far more seriously than those on the left do, simply by thinking that people BELIEVE what they are told.

[knloregon]

"...But that's just it - the New York Times IS unchallenged in its coverage of China. The Wall Street Journal seems fluffy by comparison..."

 

Randy, for those of us who subscribe to the WSJ, we have access to the full range of online reporting, and about a dozen blogs of WSJ reporters---in China --and remember, WSJ has a long established Asian print version.

 

But even in the paper delivered to my doorstep in Portland, Oregon, for instance, today's page one story by Jeremy Page--an experienced reporter on China: "Plan B for China's Wealthy: Moving to the U.S., Europe."

 

This is must reading for CFL members trying to tap the language, and cultural skills of their Chinese SO's. ----We have a thread from a Florida member recently ---right down this ally. Yes, thats a practical application, but from a political standpoint---WSJ has done some of the best biographical reporting (IMHO) about the background and motives of the leadership contenders leading up to to the power exchange in China this fall.

[Randy W]

"...But that's just it - the New York Times IS unchallenged in its coverage of China. The Wall Street Journal seems fluffy by comparison..."

 

Randy, for those of us who subscribe to the WSJ, we have access to the full range of online reporting, and about a dozen blogs of WSJ reporters---in China --and remember, WSJ has a long established Asian print version.

 

But even in the paper delivered to my doorstep in Portland, Oregon, for instance, today's page one story by Jeremy Page--an experienced reporter on China: "Plan B for China's Wealthy: Moving to the U.S., Europe."

 

This is must reading for CFL members trying to tap the language, and cultural skills of their Chinese SO's. ----We have a thread from a Florida member recently ---right down this ally. Yes, thats a practical application, but from a political standpoint---WSJ has done some of the best biographical reporting (IMHO) about the background and motives of the leadership contenders leading up to to the power exchange in China this fall.

 

Yes - wish I could, but at $3.99/week introductory rate for an online subscription, I think I'll pass. The New York Times allows free email subscriptions - you select certain topics that you want notification of ('China' is one of them), and the email provides a link to the full article with no per month limitation.

 

The WSJ offers similar email subscriptions, but most of the articles just offer previews unless you are a subscriber.

Edited February 23, 2012 by Randy W (see edit history)

[Randy W]

Today's NYTimes email alert

 

February 23, 2012

My Alerts

 

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[image ignored]

Alert Name: China News

February 23, 2012 Compiled: 12:43 AM

 

Seoul Asks China to Not Repatriate North Korean Refugees - links to http://www.nytimes.c...tnt&tntemail1=y

 

By CHOE SANG-HUN (NYT)

President Lee Myung-bak of South Korea urged China on Wednesday to follow “international norms” in its treatment of North Korean refugees.

 

Mainland Chinese Flock to Hong Kong to Have Babies [links to "]http://www.nytimes.c...nt&tntemail1=y]

 

By SHARON LaFRANIERE (NYT)

Parents go to Hong Kong for better medical care and lifelong residency benefits for their children, but locals are outraged over being shut out of maternity wards.

 

Nanjing Suspends Ties Over Japanese Mayor’s Massacre Denial [links to http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/23/world/asia/chinese-city-severs-ties-after-japanese-mayor-denies-massacre.html?emc=tnt&tntemail1=y]

 

By MARTIN FACKLER (NYT)

The Chinese city of Nanjing suspended its sister-city relationship with Nagoya after the Japanese city’s mayor expressed doubts over whether the 1937 Nanjing Massacre happened.

 

Curiosity Over China's Irish Interest [links to http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/23/world/asia/23iht-letter23.html?emc=tnt&tntemail1=y]

 

By DIDI KIRSTEN TATLOW (NYT)

Vice President Xi Jinping of China, after a visit to the United States, chose Ireland as his only stop in the European Union.

 

Apple Defends Rights to iPad Name in Shanghai Court [links to http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/23/technology/apple-defends-rights-to-ipad-name-in-shanghai-court.html?emc=tnt&tntemail1=y]

 

By DAVID BARBOZA (NYT)

A Chinese firm’s legal challenge threatened to prevent Apple from selling one of its most popular products in one of its fastest growing markets.

 

F.D.A. Lists Sources of Tainted Drug [links to http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/23/health/policy/fda-lists-sources-of-tainted-drug.html?emc=tnt&tntemail1=y]

 

By GARDINER HARRIS (NYT)

The Food and Drug Administration on Wednesday named 22 Chinese companies that it said might be involved in the making of contaminated heparin and issued an alert to stop imports from them.

More Articles On This Topic ? [links to http://select.nytimes.com/mem/tnt.html?module=talerts&cskey=]

 

 

About This E-mail

 

 

You received this e-mail because you signed up for NYTimes.com's My Alerts tool. As a member of the TRUSTe privacy program, we are committed to protecting your privacy.

 

Edited February 23, 2012 by Randy W (see edit history)

[Randy W]

The WSJ's China Real-Time Report

 

___________________________________

CHINA REAL TIME REPORT MAIL

from the Wall Street Journal Online.

 

February 22, 2012 -- 7:00 p.m. GMT+08:00

 

___________________________________

 

Yahoo! Can You Hear Us, Alibaba?

 

The new guard at Yahoo does not seem to have increased the company's influence at Alibaba, the Chinese Internet giant in which it holds around a 40% stake.

 

http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/?p=15286?mod=djemChinaRTR_t

 

* * *

 

Alibaba.com Investors Cheer Privatization Offer

 

Alibaba.com shares are surging on Wednesday in Hong Kong as investors expect the company's privatization plan to be given the OK.

 

http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/?p=15285?mod=djemChinaRTR_t

 

* * *

 

Meet One Chinese Millionaire Who Wants Out of China (Video)

 

Best-selling Chinese writer Shi Kang is one of a growing number of Chinese millionaires looking to leave China, in search of a better life and a healthier environment for their families. WSJ's Angela Yeoh reports from Beijing.

 

http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/?p=15283?mod=djemChinaRTR_t

 

* * *

 

Top China Stories from WSJ: Alibaba Plans, Apple's Slice, Turkey Pact

 

Alibaba plans to take it's publicly traded Alibaba.com unit private; Apple gets a bigger slice of the China pie; China and Turkey set aside differences over Syria to sign a series of business deals.

 

http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/?p=15281?mod=djemChinaRTR_t

 

* * *

 

Adidas Brings Jeremy Lin Jerseys to China

 

China, get your game on: Adidas is bringing Linsanity to you very soon.

 

http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/?p=15280?mod=djemChinaRTR_t

 

 

 

Latest WSJ Stories from China

_________________________

 

Plan B for China's Wealthy: Move West

 

Surveys and visa numbers show that members of China's wealthy elite are heading for the exits in search of things money can't buy in China: cleaner air, safer food, better education for their children. - Video: Chinese Millionaires Are Heading West

 

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203806504577181461401318988.html?mod=djemChinaRTR_t

 

* * *

 

Shanghai High-Rise

 

This apartment overlooks Shanghai's Taipingqiao Lake and is designed with European appliances, Japanese wallpaper and Australian Aboriginal artworks.

 

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204792404577228031076015306.html?mod=djemChinaRTR_t

 

 

___________________________________

 

VIDEO CENTER

 

Alibaba.com's stock shot up following news that the company plans to go private. Could the plans assist Alibaba Group in an eventual public listing? WSJ's Jake Lee discusses with Yun-Hee Kim.

 

http://online.wsj.com/video/alibabacom-shares-jump-on-plans-to-go-private/92D2F7D0-4EB4-4CB4-97B8-58E622CA92EA.html?mod=djemChinaRTR_t

 

 

* * *

 

[knloregon]

Randy, Not sure why some of the stories you show for the WSJ didn't make your list---but the outrage over the Japanese mayor's comments made the print edition, (and of course, if its in print, its also online)

 

The story about mainland Chinese flooding Hong Kong maternity wards, and the general resentment of the HK population about social services given to mainland Chinese were both covered rather extensively by WSJ 6-8 months ago. Also day before yesterday, editorial page editor for the WSJ-Asia (ie. on the ground permanently in Asia)---had a very insightful article: "Hong Kong Was Better Under the British"

 

Obviously, news sources don't cover all the same stories, and good they don't of course. For instance, haven't seen any WSJ reporting on the Xi--Irish connection in WSJ. ---actually didn't realize that you can get NYT's online content for free, so thanks for the tip!

[Randy W]

Randy, Not sure why some of the stories you show for the WSJ didn't make your list---but the outrage over the Japanese mayor's comments made the print edition, (and of course, if its in print, its also online)

 

The story about mainland Chinese flooding Hong Kong maternity wards, and the general resentment of the HK population about social services given to mainland Chinese were both covered rather extensively by WSJ 6-8 months ago. Also day before yesterday, editorial page editor for the WSJ-Asia (ie. on the ground permanently in Asia)---had a very insightful article: "Hong Kong Was Better Under the British"

 

Obviously, news sources don't cover all the same stories, and good they don't of course. For instance, haven't seen any WSJ reporting on the Xi--Irish connection in WSJ. ---actually didn't realize that you can get NYT's online content for free, so thanks for the tip!

 

What I quoted here was just the email reports I got from both papers yesterday. I may cancel the WSJ emails, but only because of the access limitations.