Differing Cultural Assumptions

[tsap seui]

 

Interesting about that. ChunMei says "I love you" to me frequently and spontaneously.

 

 

Yes - I hate to point out the obvious, but there are a lot of people, most of whom are different from one another.

I would further point out that some ladies do it because they think they should and the USC expects it that way. I've heard way too many ladies talk about being 'coached' on what to say; these three words are some of the first ones they are told.

 

Personally, I am a little more suspicious of these three words are overused since they grew up in a culture which does not typically use it in the same situation. So the question is: Why did they suddenly change from their normal way of living and expressing?

 

Some might say it is adjusting to US style... that may or may not be since they still don't have to change how they express themself unless someone tells them they should.

 

My wife rarely says it and it seems she is consistent to her natural self in her expression whether in China or the US. She shows it in ways I would say are much better than using words.

 

In closing, it really doesn't matter if they say it or not but from a cultural point of view it is interesting to note when they have made intentional changes in behavior or speech and understanding the reasons why.

When Ifirst met my wife she told me on maybe the second trip that she never understood what love meant. She said she never really had that feeling for her first husband and married because the guy tried his best to win her over and it seemed like what she was supposed to do, at her age back then.

 

Then she and I met and she said she had this new feeling, she thought was love.....anyhow, with our relationship being 5 years long before she was given the freedom to move to the states with me she learned what the feeling of love was.

 

No one coached her that she needed to say "I love you" and it wasn't some flunky overnight change....it developed over 5 years of her trying to figure out this emotion she felt and finally understanding it for herself.

 

I wouldn't be put out if she never told me she loved me but I'll tell ya, it was pretty darn cool as we walked into the grocery store this evening to have her take my arm in hers and snuggle up to me and tell me she loved me in my ear.

 

I don't look at our relationship as a Chinese/American type filled with mumbo jumbo that needs to be analized, put into polls, or even looked at too critically. We're just a couple of lovebirds in love. Assumptions, be they cultural or whatever, are like speculations and conjectures...maybe some need them but we got enough of that dumb B/S from the State Department in Guangzhou.

 

Look at the divorce rate in America with native borns marrying each other. I doubt the divorce ratio with American/Chinese marriages is any worse or even on par with the divorce rate with marrying the girl "next door". Shucks, if all of us American men were so successful or smart with our American wives we wouldn't even be having this discussion about Chinese wives....would we?

 

I think "Myth Busters" has a cannon that could blow some holes in trying to over complicate the issues.

 

tsap seui

[Guest ExChinaExpat]

I don't look at our relationship as a Chinese/American type filled with mumbo jumbo that needs to be analized, put into polls, or even looked at too critically. We're just a couple of lovebirds in love. Assumptions, be they cultural or whatever, are like speculations and conjectures.

 

....

 

Look at the divorce rate in America with native borns marrying each other. I doubt the divorce ratio with American/Chinese marriages is any worse or even on par with the divorce rate with marrying the girl "next door". Shucks, if all of us American men were so successful or smart with our American wives we wouldn't even be having this discussion about Chinese wives....would we?

 

I think "Myth Busters" has a cannon that could blow some holes in trying to over complicate the issues.

 

tsap seui

 

I agree with you tsap about trying to analyze (analize haha) a relationship. If you have to think too much about it, there is probably a bulldog ready to bite you in the ass. Avoiding eye contact with the bulldog is the only option, because as soon as you look him in the eye, CHOMP, there goes your left nut.

 

As far as whether Chinese/American relationships are above or below the US national divorce averages, would be tough to know. That would have to be analized, and separate those who met and married the Chinese woman while living/working in China, and those who traveled to China to meet them and bring them home.

[david_dawei]

I think "Myth Busters" has a cannon that could blow some holes in trying to over complicate the issues.

Actually I don't think the issue is complicated; each person really only has to understand one other person; their mate.

 

It is only if people are interested in talking about the historical, cultural, psychological, and sociological issues that it gets complicated. If one isn't interested in such discussions or topics I would think they would pass over the topic without much ado

[Guest ExChinaExpat]

I think "Myth Busters" has a cannon that could blow some holes in trying to over complicate the issues.

Actually I don't think the issue is complicated; each person really only has to understand one other person; their mate.

 

It is only if people are interested in talking about the historical, cultural, psychological, and sociological issues that it gets complicated. If one isn't interested in such discussions or topics I would think they would pass over the topic without much ado

 

Right Dawei. Somewhere out there lives a line. That line separates those who do little to nothing to learn about Chinese culture and language, and those who embrace it so much they cannot see what's in front of them. I am not sure what side of the line I live, but I think I am moving more to the side of embracing my own historical language and culture. I am willing to be flexible with a woman, but if she wants me to do all the bending, then I will surely bend and let her kiss my rosy pink....

 

Edited January 5, 2012 by JiangsuExpat (see edit history)

[honeybun]

tsap seui,

 

i think you might be understanding and doing more to make your intercultural marriage successful than you realize. just because it is not effortful and you don't overanalyze it -- you just feel you want to do sometime and do it -- doesn't mean you aren't successfully navigating some important and common issues with american/chinese couples.

 

one prime example was the apartment in china you mentioned in one post -- letting her own it and then having her parents live there. that would obviously build a lot of trust in you. that's not why you did it, but many american men would not even consider doing so, and they might have to deal with such issues in other ways. (for ex,, wife sending money back)

 

then there comes the boy. anyone who reads your postings can sense your palpable pride and the way you savor your time with him. there is really no faking that. but if you weren't raising him so very well (and i don't think most men would take nearly the time, effort, and joy that you do with him), you guys' son could have been -- dare i say would have been -- a bigger issue.

 

BTW, if you couldn't tell from this post, i greatly enjoy reading your story.

[tsap seui]

tsap seui,

 

i think you might be understanding and doing more to make your intercultural marriage successful than you realize. just because it is not effortful and you don't overanalyze it -- you just feel you want to do sometime and do it -- doesn't mean you aren't successfully navigating some important and common issues with american/chinese couples.

 

one prime example was the apartment in china you mentioned in one post -- letting her own it and then having her parents live there. that would obviously build a lot of trust in you. that's not why you did it, but many american men would not even consider doing so, and they might have to deal with such issues in other ways. (for ex,, wife sending money back)

 

then there comes the boy. anyone who reads your postings can sense your palpable pride and the way you savor your time with him. there is really no faking that. but if you weren't raising him so very well (and i don't think most men would take nearly the time, effort, and joy that you do with him), you guys' son could have been -- dare i say would have been -- a bigger issue.

 

BTW, if you couldn't tell from this post, i greatly enjoy reading your story.

Thank you very much Honeybun.

 

You opened my eyes that I might be navigating some topics that I never really gave a thought about and possibly just by luck or subconscious act did what I did. I certainly never sat down and plotted a course of any type.

 

Wenyan and I from day one of our meeting each other have talked until we were almost blue in the face about ourselves and our goals. Even when we didn't have 10 common words between us we found a way to communicate and understand each other. So I dodn't get all this talk about not being able to understand your partner and language being a problem to these long distance relationships.

 

From our talks we found ourselves getting so in touch with each other, our past lives, how we felt now, and how we saw our future life.

 

Wenyan had never had a man or for that matter any women that trusted her. When I bought that apartment it never crossed my mind to have it put in my name. I knew her well enough at that stage that I fully trusted her....she is the one that mentioned putting the place in my name, but I wouldn't hear of it. I stumbled into doing something profound for this dear woman that I just did by being myself and actin' naturally.

 

I've been really amazed at how I have sort of stumbled into doing some things, like showing my trust in Wenyan with simple actions like the apartment. The biggest surprise to me was when I noticed how much pleasure I got from sititng and talking with Wenyan. My second wife would have strangled me if she saw me doing that (right off the bat) with another woman....she had BEGGED me to sit and talk with her...for years.

 

For some reason I never had it in me to sit and talk with my ex like I do so naturally with Winnie. It's like I met her and a couple or three light switches got clicked on. As hard as I tried and failed with talking with the ex, it just came so natural with Wenyan.

 

And, it turns out, that was another goal she had along with finding a man who trusted her....a man who would sit and look her in the face and talk with her, actually hearing what SHE had to say. She had never had that before and here I was just talking away like I had been doing it all my life. I was sitting their listening to her talk and not even clouding her words by thinking in my mind what I was going to say.

 

Trust and talk have been two of the pillars of our relationship. Along with humor, and neither one of us taking ourselves very seriously at all. We love kidding each other, and with Fengqi. He literally walks around with a smile on his face here in America, when back in China you couldn't buy a smile out of him. He's developing quite a clever sense of humor.

 

Oh well, that's all there really is to it. Maybe relationships from two cultures need to be put under a microscope. What I see of it is Chinese women are no more ambition or agenda driven than American women. Doesn't everyone want happiness and security for themselves and for their children? Nothing wrong with that is there?. Yeah, the government calls immigrants aliens....but that doesn't mean Chinese women are aliens as in from outter space and Mars and Jupiter, etc....they are human beings also. With typical human being cares, needs, and wants.

 

I know Wenyan had an agenda and a list of what she needed from her next relationship....be it with either an American man, or a Chinese man. The list was the same for either. She would be a fool if she didn't have that list. Being a second marriage for her and third for me, this marriage and relationship is much more adult in many ways than that first "puppy love" relationship/marriage we all go through.

 

So agendas....hell yes. Only a fool wouldn't have one.

 

tsap seui

I'm considering legally changing my first name to "Lucky".

[A Mafan]

Although often misquoted, the full quote is, "If ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise."

So, sure, if everything is going great, maybe there is no reason to worry about it. As long as the manna falls from heaven, there's no reason to worry about where it comes from and how...

 

But what about when ignorance isn't bliss? That's where these topics come in.

 

For the life of me, I cannot understand why it should bother anyone if there are people who prefer to understand, and to discuss with others to deepen understanding.

[chilton747]

I think "Myth Busters" has a cannon that could blow some holes in trying to over complicate the issues.

Actually I don't think the issue is complicated; each person really only has to understand one other person; their mate.

 

It is only if people are interested in talking about the historical, cultural, psychological, and sociological issues that it gets complicated. If one isn't interested in such discussions or topics I would think they would pass over the topic without much ado

 

Right Dawei. Somewhere out there lives a line. That line separates those who do little to nothing to learn about Chinese culture and language, and those who embrace it so much they cannot see what's in front of them. I am not sure what side of the line I live, but I think I am moving more to the side of embracing my own historical language and culture. I am willing to be flexible with a woman, but if she wants me to do all the bending, then I will surely bend and let her kiss my rosy pink....

 

 

Man can I relate to that!!!

[chilton747]

 

 

Again, it should be a no-brainer that the Great Leap Forward, the Cultural Revolution, the power struggles after Mao's death, Deng's opening up of China, the Tian-an Men Square Massacre, the growth of income, material wealth, the housing bubble, etc, would have significant impacts on people, depending on their situation...but also a no-brainer that people in similar situations will be impacted in a similar manner.

 

 

Definitely my wife is a product of her environment and it has a PROFOUND effect on our relationship. Assimilation has been difficult for her mostly because she has "stoopid da man" for a husband.

[david_dawei]

I cleaned up some of the posts... I know some were just having some fun here, but I'd like to keep this from going further off-track.

 

added; Last tsap post returned in PM.

Edited January 10, 2012 by david_dawei (see edit history)