Differing Cultural Assumptions

[A Mafan]

I have no firm notion of what answers you'll get, but try asking your spouse these questions, then report back the answers you get:

 

What is the purpose of marriage? (Why did your spouse want to get married in the first place)

 

What is a happy marriage? (What makes a Chinese spouse happy in a marriage)

 

What is a good marriage? (What are the basics of a marriage that everyone would/should want)

 

These also might be good questions to ask someone you are thinking about marrying...

[Guest ExChinaExpat]

I have no firm notion of what answers you'll get, but try asking your spouse these questions, then report back the answers you get:

 

What is the purpose of marriage? (Why did your spouse want to get married in the first place)

 

What is a happy marriage? (What makes a Chinese spouse happy in a marriage)

 

What is a good marriage? (What are the basics of a marriage that everyone would/should want)

 

These also might be good questions to ask someone you are thinking about marrying...

 

 

Rather than asking these kinds of questions, what is far more important is for the man to be honest with himself. The chances of a Chinese woman marrying a Western man for a traditional Western sense of love is very unlikely. It's virtually impossible to get to know someone after visiting them a few times. Better for the man to ask himself just what in the hell he is thinking.

[david_dawei]

I see both sides of this exercise:

 

1. Any discussion is good. It can deepen the relationship and result in good feelings.

2. You may not really get the truth, but your very likely to get a very good answer.

 

I could say a lot more but I should just start my own topic.

[A Mafan]

I see both sides of this exercise:

 

1. Any discussion is good. It can deepen the relationship and result in good feelings.

2. You may not really get the truth, but your very likely to get a very good answer.

 

I could say a lot more but I should just start my own topic.

Either way.

I think your reactions are dead on.

 

Part of the problem is that I dont think Chinese people think about these sort of topics the way many Americans do.

 

what I'm hoping is to uncover the western assumption of nearly pure individual expectations and judgments, in stark contrast to the Chinese family oriented approach to this problem set.

 

which is one of the reasons I think US-Sino relationships are often so stormy.

 

But I'll expand that thought later, or in another thread, too.

[Guest ExChinaExpat]

I see both sides of this exercise:

 

1. Any discussion is good. It can deepen the relationship and result in good feelings.

2. You may not really get the truth, but your very likely to get a very good answer.

 

I could say a lot more but I should just start my own topic.

Either way.

I think your reactions are dead on.

 

Part of the problem is that I dont think Chinese people think about these sort of topics the way many Americans do.

 

what I'm hoping is to uncover the western assumption of nearly pure individual expectations and judgments, in stark contrast to the Chinese family oriented approach to this problem set.

 

which is one of the reasons I think US-Sino relationships are often so stormy.

 

But I'll expand that thought later, or in another thread, too.

 

It's really not very complicated, but can become complicated for anyone who does not want to look at the truth of motivations. Chances are very likely of having a stormy relationship when you meet someone who lives in another city, or in most of our cases another country. Trying to explain away a mismatch, or explain a good match by citing cultural differences is very likely in a state of delusion. Better questions to ask:

 

1. Why on earth does this woman want to meet me?

2. Why on earth do I want to meet her?

 

Then, for those so bold to make the trip to China:

 

1. Why on earth would I consider marrying this woman?

2. What is it that makes me think I can get to know her by talking on the telephone or online?

 

For those who actually marry or file for fiance visa after returning home:

 

NOTE: Please be careful not to take these points personally. They are intended to provoke conversation, not piss you off.

 

1. Chances are very likely for both the man and woman to be unprepared for the next step. So, OJT is the only option.

[david_dawei]

Part of the problem is that I dont think Chinese people think about these sort of topics the way many Americans do.

 

Yes... and there are historical and cultural reasons for this... which I know you know... but we are asking westerners to be aware of it; we can't really reach the chinese audience as would be quite interesting to do !

 

what I'm hoping is to uncover the western assumption of nearly pure individual expectations and judgments, in stark contrast to the Chinese family oriented approach to this problem set. which is one of the reasons I think US-Sino relationships are often so stormy.

Yes, I felt this... so why I kept my comments brief. Great topic as usual.

[david_dawei]

It's really not very complicated, but can become complicated for anyone who does not want to look at the truth of motivations. Chances are very likely of having a stormy relationship when you meet someone who lives in another city, or in most of our cases another country. Trying to explain away a mismatch, or explain a good match by citing cultural differences is very likely in a state of delusion. Better questions to ask:

 

1. Why on earth does this woman want to meet me?

2. Why on earth do I want to meet her?

 

Then, for those so bold to make the trip to China:

 

1. Why on earth would I consider marrying this woman?

2. What is it that makes me think I can get to know her by talking on the telephone or online?

 

For those who actually marry or file for fiance visa after returning home:

 

NOTE: Please be careful not to take these points personally. They are intended to provoke conversation, not piss you off.

 

1. Chances are very likely for both the man and woman to be unprepared for the next step. So, OJT is the only option.

IMO, further spot-on... the kinds of introspective questions one needs to have equipped themselves with PRIOR to 'the risky' steps... some of us speak more and more about this in hindsight B)

 

But these are all questions worth the time to type.

[Randy W]

Hmm.you may be right thatprost people get that sort of answer. I haven't gotten even an initial response from my wife yet.

but what I'm hoping to get, what I think is actually true is that while individual aspects may play into a desire for marriage and how happiness is judged, there is much more of family duty and joining of families and responsibility going on in the Chinese subconscious.

Maybe these questions aren't quite the right way to uncover that.

But still ask your wife/husband those that haven't yet...I still think there might be some surprising or enlightening answers out there.

 

 

I don't think Jiaying has EVER said "I love you" - if I say it to her, she responds with, "I need you".

 

She DOES, however, seem to have a STRONG sense of me as her family, much more so than her natural family.

 

It's unclear how much money has a role in that. I feel comfortable that she would NEVER be looking for more somewhere else, but it's not clear where we would be if mine was less than adequate (probably still working in the U.S., which would have been okay by her).

[NickF]

Hmm.you may be right thatprost people get that sort of answer. I haven't gotten even an initial response from my wife yet.

but what I'm hoping to get, what I think is actually true is that while individual aspects may play into a desire for marriage and how happiness is judged, there is much more of family duty and joining of families and responsibility going on in the Chinese subconscious.

Maybe these questions aren't quite the right way to uncover that.

But still ask your wife/husband those that haven't yet...I still think there might be some surprising or enlightening answers out there.

 

 

I don't think Jiaying has EVER said "I love you" - if I say it to her, she responds with, "I need you".

 

She DOES, however, seem to have a STRONG sense of me as her family, much more so than her natural family.

 

It's unclear how much money has a role in that. I feel comfortable that she would NEVER be looking for more somewhere else, but it's not clear where we would be if mine was less than adequate (probably still working in the U.S., which would have been okay by her).

Interesting about that. ChunMei says "I love you" to me frequently and spontaneously.

[Randy W]

 

Interesting about that. ChunMei says "I love you" to me frequently and spontaneously.

 

 

Yes - I hate to point out the obvious, but there are a lot of people, most of whom are different from one another.

[tsap seui]

 

Interesting about that. ChunMei says "I love you" to me frequently and spontaneously.

 

 

Yes - I hate to point out the obvious, but there are a lot of people, most of whom are different from one another.

And that is exactly why trying to classify clutural assumptions or whatever just won't work. You can't pigeon hole women....maybe some men, but not women, of any culture.

 

Nick, happily my wife is like your's and she comes to me at times, puts her arms around me and tells me she loves me. Nothing to do with a need, just a happy expression of her feelings.

 

tsap seui

[DongDong]

 

What is the purpose of marriage? (Why did your spouse want to get married in the first place) Love and be loved... she used a quote something like, "I love you, not because of who you are, but because of how I feel when I am with you." She is much more comfortable showing love, than saying it. However, she understands that in the US one is supposed to say it out loud.

 

 

What is a happy marriage? (What makes a Chinese spouse happy in a marriage)The "simple life" and "family" is what makes her happy.

 

What is a good marriage? (What are the basics of a marriage that everyone would/should want) Her simple answer "family"... however, I am going to explain this how I understand it from her... as a traditional Chinese family, with familial values(and children),loyalty, all working together/a collective, strict upbringing, hard work, school emphasis, etc.

 

[A Mafan]

People are different from each other: absolutely true.

 

There are significant cultural differences between the US and China: also absolutely true.

 

There are some Chinese people who take to US culture like a duck to water: absolutely true.

 

There are some Chinese people who don't immediately feel fully comfortable in US culture: also absolutely true...and worth trying to figure out how/why, because maybe some of those problems can be resolved once they are understood.

 

So it is worthwhile to try and figure out the way people raised in China tend to react and respond to situations involving someone raised in the US.

 

It is a complex situation, to be sure.

There are many things that influence someone's personality and the way they see the world...

 

China is absolutely more concerned with family and less individualistic than the US. Anyone who claims differently is a fool. But that should not be taken to indicate there aren't individualistic Chinese or family-oriented Americans. Rather than being something that the simple-minded seem to take as putting people in a box, it is a continuum, with Chinese tending to be located at one point on the spectrum, and Americans tending to fall at another point on the spectrum.

 

Chinese people characterize the nature of different generations by decades:

People born after 1960 (implied: but only up to 1970) experienced a different situation than those born after 1970, who were again different from those born after 1980, etc.

 

Again, it should be a no-brainer that the Great Leap Forward, the Cultural Revolution, the power struggles after Mao's death, Deng's opening up of China, the Tian-an Men Square Massacre, the growth of income, material wealth, the housing bubble, etc, would have significant impacts on people, depending on their situation...but also a no-brainer that people in similar situations will be impacted in a similar manner.

 

There is value in considering, identifying, and discussing these issues. If not, why even bother participating in a bulletin board?

[A Mafan]

 

What is the purpose of marriage? (Why did your spouse want to get married in the first place) Love and be loved... she used a quote something like, "I love you, not because of who you are, but because of how I feel when I am with you." She is much more comfortable showing love, than saying it. However, she understands that in the US one is supposed to say it out loud.

 

 

What is a happy marriage? (What makes a Chinese spouse happy in a marriage)The "simple life" and "family" is what makes her happy.

 

What is a good marriage? (What are the basics of a marriage that everyone would/should want) Her simple answer "family"... however, I am going to explain this how I understand it from her... as a traditional Chinese family, with familial values(and children),loyalty, all working together/a collective, strict upbringing, hard work, school emphasis, etc.

 

Yep. I understand the same thing from the Chinese women I've known: marriage is bigger than just finding someone you want to spend the rest of your life with. It is a partnership, including a duty of having kids, taking care of your parents, building a life with a certain amount of material comfort and security.

[david_dawei]

 

Interesting about that. ChunMei says "I love you" to me frequently and spontaneously.

 

 

Yes - I hate to point out the obvious, but there are a lot of people, most of whom are different from one another.

I would further point out that some ladies do it because they think they should and the USC expects it that way. I've heard way too many ladies talk about being 'coached' on what to say; these three words are some of the first ones they are told.

 

Personally, I am a little more suspicious of these three words are overused since they grew up in a culture which does not typically use it in the same situation. So the question is: Why did they suddenly change from their normal way of living and expressing?

 

Some might say it is adjusting to US style... that may or may not be since they still don't have to change how they express themself unless someone tells them they should.

 

My wife rarely says it and it seems she is consistent to her natural self in her expression whether in China or the US. She shows it in ways I would say are much better than using words.

 

In closing, it really doesn't matter if they say it or not but from a cultural point of view it is interesting to note when they have made intentional changes in behavior or speech and understanding the reasons why.