Best way to learn Chinese?

[DennisLeiqin]

For awhile I tried to learn one new Chinese phrase each week. I'd repeat it over and over. I'd write it down in pin yin and in phonetic sounds and carry it with me. I'd practice on every Chinese I knew (found out that depending on where they're from they might have a different pronunciation, so I usually would stick with the South China sound of my wife). I now am proficient with ~50 common phrases. Problem is that I don't have a working vocabulary like 2mike&jin where I can sting words together to make a sentence.

 

Volunteer teaching ESL to Chinese I notice that the students tend to have difficulty putting words together to make a sentence. I've suggested that they too learn a phrase a week... "May I use your restroom? How much does this cost? What is your name? I am happy to meet you. I live in Alhambra... " Seems to help them excel

[Randy W]

For awhile I tried to learn one new Chinese phrase each week. I'd repeat it over and over. I'd write it down in pin yin and in phonetic sounds and carry it with me. I'd practice on every Chinese I knew (found out that depending on where they're from they might have a different pronunciation, so I usually would stick with the South China sound of my wife). I now am proficient with ~50 common phrases. Problem is that I don't have a working vocabulary like 2mike&jin where I can sting words together to make a sentence.

 

Volunteer teaching ESL to Chinese I notice that the students tend to have difficulty putting words together to make a sentence. I've suggested that they too learn a phrase a week... "May I use your restroom? How much does this cost? What is your name? I am happy to meet you. I live in Alhambra... " Seems to help them excel

 

I'm guessing that one of the advantages of pinyin (to Chinese) is that it helps bring about a more uniform pronunciation. Our wives grew up before pinyin was taught in the schools - I'm told mine has a heavy accent, and even has trouble sometimes distinguishing words like 4, 10, and 11 (si, shi, shi-yi), since she pronounces the 'sh' sound as if it were 's'. She doesn't have the same problem in English, though, since I try to emphasize the difference to her.

 

She likes to learn word-by-word, which, to me, just goes in one ear and out the other.

[Guest ExChinaExpat]

For awhile I tried to learn one new Chinese phrase each week. I'd repeat it over and over. I'd write it down in pin yin and in phonetic sounds and carry it with me. I'd practice on every Chinese I knew (found out that depending on where they're from they might have a different pronunciation, so I usually would stick with the South China sound of my wife). I now am proficient with ~50 common phrases. Problem is that I don't have a working vocabulary like 2mike&jin where I can sting words together to make a sentence.

 

Volunteer teaching ESL to Chinese I notice that the students tend to have difficulty putting words together to make a sentence. I've suggested that they too learn a phrase a week... "May I use your restroom? How much does this cost? What is your name? I am happy to meet you. I live in Alhambra... " Seems to help them excel

 

I'm guessing that one of the advantages of pinyin (to Chinese) is that it helps bring about a more uniform pronunciation. Our wives grew up before pinyin was taught in the schools - I'm told mine has a heavy accent, and even has trouble sometimes distinguishing words like 4, 10, and 11 (si, shi, shi-yi), since she pronounces the 'sh' sound as if it were 's'. She doesn't have the same problem in English, though, since I try to emphasize the difference to her.

 

She likes to learn word-by-word, which, to me, just goes in one ear and out the other.

 

Learning pinyin, wubi, or other Western character/tone-for-Madarin input is necessary for anyone who wants to type Chinese characters. It can be moderately helpful to someone who wants to learn survival Chinese. Chinese people are often confused when they try to read it though, especially if you write pinyin without the tone markers. The reason for the confusion are many, including tones, and numerous similar words with the same pronunciation. A new Chinese student must master the pinyin pronunciation chart from top to bottom and left to right. No shortcuts. If you don't get the rooted base, no one will ever understand what you speak.

 

As you learn and improve, most Chinese teachers suggest you ditch the pinyin, and learn the characters. That scares the crap out of most Westerners.

[Randy W]

 

 

Learning pinyin, wubi, or other Western character/tone-for-Madarin input is necessary for anyone who wants to type Chinese characters. It can be moderately helpful to someone who wants to learn survival Chinese. Chinese people are often confused when they try to read it though, especially if you write pinyin without the tone markers. The reason for the confusion are many, including tones, and numerous similar words with the same pronunciation. A new Chinese student must master the pinyin pronunciation chart from top to bottom and left to right. No shortcuts. If you don't get the rooted base, no one will ever understand what you speak.

 

As you learn and improve, most Chinese teachers suggest you ditch the pinyin, and learn the characters. That scares the crap out of most Westerners.

 

This, in my opinion, is what will make the Mandarin pronunciation more uniform, with less in the way of regional "accents".

 

Yes, westerners generally don't realize how ambiguous it is - all you need to do is enter one pinyin syllable, and you'll get typically 15 to 20 Chinese characters to choose from. But for the Chinese learning pinyin in school, I believe it will help them learn the correct pronunciation, rather than what they hear from others locally.

[Guest ExChinaExpat]

Learning pinyin, wubi, or other Western character/tone-for-Madarin input is necessary for anyone who wants to type Chinese characters. It can be moderately helpful to someone who wants to learn survival Chinese. Chinese people are often confused when they try to read it though, especially if you write pinyin without the tone markers. The reason for the confusion are many, including tones, and numerous similar words with the same pronunciation. A new Chinese student must master the pinyin pronunciation chart from top to bottom and left to right. No shortcuts. If you don't get the rooted base, no one will ever understand what you speak.

 

As you learn and improve, most Chinese teachers suggest you ditch the pinyin, and learn the characters. That scares the crap out of most Westerners.

 

This, in my opinion, is what will make the Mandarin pronunciation more uniform, with less in the way of regional "accents".

 

Yes, westerners generally don't realize how ambiguous it is - all you need to do is enter one pinyin syllable, and you'll get typically 15 to 20 Chinese characters to choose from. But for the Chinese learning pinyin in school, I believe it will help them learn the correct pronunciation, rather than what they hear from others locally.

 

You're right. You need to have a basis in pronunciation from pinyin.

[credzba]

Learning pinyin, wubi, or other Western character/tone-for-Madarin input is necessary for anyone who wants to type Chinese characters. It can be moderately helpful to someone who wants to learn survival Chinese. Chinese people are often confused when they try to read it though, especially if you write pinyin without the tone markers. The reason for the confusion are many, including tones, and numerous similar words with the same pronunciation. A new Chinese student must master the pinyin pronunciation chart from top to bottom and left to right. No shortcuts. If you don't get the rooted base, no one will ever understand what you speak.

 

As you learn and improve, most Chinese teachers suggest you ditch the pinyin, and learn the characters. That scares the crap out of most Westerners.

 

This, in my opinion, is what will make the Mandarin pronunciation more uniform, with less in the way of regional "accents".

 

Yes, westerners generally don't realize how ambiguous it is - all you need to do is enter one pinyin syllable, and you'll get typically 15 to 20 Chinese characters to choose from. But for the Chinese learning pinyin in school, I believe it will help them learn the correct pronunciation, rather than what they hear from others locally.

 

You're right. You need to have a basis in pronunciation from pinyin.

 

I don't study/know pinyin except for what I have reasoned out seeing it written, and hearing the word.

Yet, most Chinese who hear me speak comment that my pronunciation is very good.

Unless I am learning a word for the first time I seldom think about tone, but I do try very hard to listen to the tone when i learn a word, perhaps that somehow affects my pronunciation later.

 

I don't think you have to learn pinyin, but if you don't then you need a live in Chinese teacher

[Guest ExChinaExpat]

 

I don't study/know pinyin except for what I have reasoned out seeing it written, and hearing the word.

Yet, most Chinese who hear me speak comment that my pronunciation is very good.

Unless I am learning a word for the first time I seldom think about tone, but I do try very hard to listen to the tone when i learn a word, perhaps that somehow affects my pronunciation later.

 

I don't think you have to learn pinyin, but if you don't then you need a live in Chinese teacher

 

Truly, if you want to improve, you should learn and practice pinyin from your live-in Chinese teacher, or classroom Chinese teacher. This forms the basis of all Chinese pronunciation. It isn't that difficult to learn it, but you need the help of a native Chinese speaker to do it:

 

http://i45.tinypic.com/28cevxi.jpg

[Bigguy_33]

I thought I was making great progress with Rosetta Stone when I overheard some people talking on the plane...and knew some of the words they were saying!

 

When someone who just started learning Mandarin via a CD system, say that they can understand some “words” of a conversation between native speaking Mandarin Chinese individuals, I respectfully doubt it. I mean no disrespect towards your efforts; 3 years ago, I was where you are now. I go back to my original comment about learning Mandarin, “You don’t know what you don’t know”.

 

Anyone reading similar postings shouldn’t think you can get a CD system, and then within a few weeks understand parts/words of a conversation between Chinese people. YOU CAN NOT! PERIOD, END OF DISCUSSION. What you may have heard are a few “sounds” which were familiar, but what words they represented and how they were being used is far beyond the ability of someone just starting to learn Mandarin. It takes a few to several years of dedicated studying to understand “some words” with certainty, between native Mandarin speaking individuals.

 

This lack of ability to understand is based upon several factors about Mandarin:

a) Dialects used in China

b) Paraphrasing used in English translations

c) Syllables in Mandarin with numerous unrelated meanings

d) Context is required for understanding

e) No loanwords

f) Tonal aspects of Mandarin

 

 

1) Dialects

– There are approximately 10 major dialects used in China. Individuals new to learning Mandarin think there is just one – Chinese. People in Beijing

can

’t understand people from Shenzhen or the southeast coastal area. People in Shanghai have a difficult time understanding people in both Beijing and Shenzhen. Have you ever wondered why there are subtitles on all of CCTV broadcasts? It’s because there are

so

many spoken dialects, but they all use the same writing system

so

they need subtitles for everyone to understand.

So

, to think the conversation you overheard is the Mandarin which you are studying is not 100% certain by any means.

 

2) Paraphrasing

– This is the main reason to get off those western based Mandarin teaching CD’s systems. After you have studied Mandarin for awhile and have developed a working vocabulary of several hundred words, you’ll notice that the English translation is no where near what the actual literal translation is. Therefore, those CD’s systems do a poor job of teaching the use of individual words correctly and accordingly you’re weak at forming and understanding sentences. The translation is paraphrased using English grammar rules, sentence structure and just some laziness. Someone new to studying Mandarin is not aware of this for a few years and it retards your ability to actually understand Mandarin because Mandarin sentence structure and grammar is

so

very different then English.

So

what you think you heard may have a completely different meaning, if you are a beginner.

 

3) Syllables

– This is singularly what makes Mandarin

so

difficult. – Mandarin is made up of about 400 syllables which are mostly 3 – 4 letters long (using the

pinyin

system) to make up their words. By contrast English has about 2,400. To make up for the limited number of syllables Mandarin uses tones, but that still leaves Mandarin short. In English syllables

can

’t stand independently as a word, but Mandarin’s they

can

stand alone as a word. Additionally, Mandarin syllables

can

be part of several other syllables to form a completely new word very different then the individual syllable meaning. Syllables with numerous multiple meanings and uses, is what makes Mandarin

so

difficult to understand while learning. Take the word/syllable ‘yes’ in Mandarin (shi4). “Shi” is a syllable which

can

stand alone or it

can

be used with other syllables to form over 999 other very different words in Mandarin (it maybe more, but my computerized Mandarin dictionary by a Chinese software company max out at 999). Therefore when studying Mandarin, you need quite a large vocabulary just to start understanding sentences. Mandarin has a huge learning curve just to reach an elementary level before you

can

identify a syllable being used as a stand alone word or is the syllable being used as part of a group of other syllables to form a completely different word from the individual components.

So

yes you may have overheard a syllable in a conversation, but was the syllable being used as the word you “learned” or was it being used as part of 999 other words you don’t know yet? It is doubtful you understood the word being used.

 

One last point about Mandarin syllables, many groups of them sound amazingly identical (zhi,chi,shi) or (keng, heng, ceng, seng, zheng, cheng, sheng) are just a few.

So

it’s extremely difficult to not only pick out of a group the correct syllable but also the correct tone you heard. You have no idea about this when you just started learning. Therefore, you have no way, as a beginner, to differentiate the use of syllables/words in Mandarin to understand parts of the day to day conversations which you overheard. Those CD’s systems don’t mention these facts because they don’t want you to be discouraged before you start. Rosetta Stone and Pimsleur instead want you to think learning Mandarin is a piece of cake if you buy their CD’s and give them your money.

 

4) Context

is required for understanding. Words in English are precise and

can

be understood without knowing the conversation. But in Mandarin there are

so

many ways to use the same syllable/words you need context for understanding. Also in Mandarin a large percentage of their words, which sound, written the same in

pinyin

and have the same tone also have very different multiple meanings. Many words have over 12 very different meanings and the only way to separate out the correct meaning is to have context of the conversation or READ/UNDERSTAND the written Chinese script, not

pinyin

. Therefore, for non native speakers, you need the context of a conversation to understand what is being said. Consequently, this leads to another very steep learning curve, you just

can

’t understand a few words, but you need to understand a lot of what is being said

so

you

can

comprehend the context of a conversation and be able to parse out the individual words correctly.

 

5) Lack of “Loanwords”.

Another facet about English which makes it great is we adopt words from other languages, known as “loanwords”, without a second thought. The Chinese hate loanwords because it makes their language/culture tainted. Yes, I know there are a few exceptions but generally no loanwords. The Chinese take their already limited supply of syllables and string some of them together to make up a new word that sounds similar to the foreign word. Their newly created word makes no sense, but it just sounds a little like the foreign words

so

they use it. The problem with this practice is it makes an even larger percentage of their vocabulary words sound the same. Take “Coke” for example. It is a brand name product available everywhere in China and around the world,

so

why not call it “Coke”? No, instead in Mandarin it’s “ke3 kou3 ke3 le4” then you have to worry about the correct tones and adjust the tonal based upon tone rules. If that is not enough there are measure words/classifiers which are required to worry about and if you want

ice

cubes (which Chinese restaurant NEVER have available) or a ‘

can

of Coke’ you could run the total number of words, classifiers and tones up to 18 things to remember and pronounce, all for a COKE ! In English - One word, one syllable, and no tones.

 

6) Tonal aspects of Mandarin

. Everyone knows Mandarin is a tonal language, but there are 2 points that never get mentioned in these discussions.

a) To understand a person speaking you really need to know all the meanings of the different tones of a single word and recall them instantly. That is nearly impossible for non native speakers. Otherwise if you don’t know the correct word/tone combination you will naturally think of the incorrect meaning based upon the only tone meaning you know.

 

b) The other point is the main problems with tones. Most Chinese people will NOT make the “leap of faith” and get to the correct meaning of the word you are saying, if you happen to miss the proper tone. It’s the same damn sound/word but only a very slight incorrect inflection in your voice. But they still refuse to guess at the correct words by substituting the right tone. The Chinese refuse to “throw you a bone” to help you out. I faced this everyday while practicing my Mandarin. This problem was also pointed out extensively in a book “Dreaming in Chinese” by Deborah Fellows, a Harvard trained Linguistic Professional, who was studying Mandarin in China for 2 years. A Harvard language teacher couldn’t speak Mandarin after 2 years

so

what possible chance does a beginner adult, without a background in languages, have with a CD system? It’s IMPOSSIBLE!

 

I haven’t even started talking about high speed and sloppy pronunciation, sentence structures, idioms & “set sayings” that Chinese people use all the time, which if you don’t know them, you can’t understand what is being said. One final problem is the inconsistency or lack of standardization of their language in teaching materials. As an example, many words are written differently and have different tone marks depending on what reference source you are using.

 

All of the above I’ve mentioned, makes Mandarin a very difficult language to learn for non Chinese people. So for a beginner to say they understood “some words” between native Mandarin speaking individuals I doubt it. ֪֮Ϊ֪֮£¬²»ÖªÎª²»Öª

 

 

English is referred to as “the language of kings” and Mandarin Chinese is referred to as “the language of the common people”. After studying Mandarin for several years, you will understand why and the differences.

 

Once I’ve read the following about learning Chinese…. (“Someone once said that learning Chinese is "a five-year lesson in humility”. I used to think this meant that at the end of five years you will have mastered Chinese and learned humility along the way. However, now having studied Chinese for over six years, I have concluded that actually the phrase means that after five years your Chinese will still be abysmal, but at least you will have thoroughly learned humility.”) I fully agree and understand now as I’m well into my third year of diligently studying Mandarin.

 

To think you can learn Mandarin Chinese via a CD’s system is absolutely ridiculous. Moreover, you can’t listen to a few CD’s when you are jogging, driving or biking and expect to learn Mandarin Chinese. To learn Mandarin as an adult, you need to have several Mandarin Chinese learning sources available and laid out ready for use (I’ve used about 20 over the years), be sitting at a desk, alone and be 100% focused for long hours at a time, which will then turn into days, weeks, months and years. You need to attend quality courses with a qualified instructor and have private tutoring sessions. Please note: just because a person speaks Mandarin, DOES NOT make them qualified to teach or tutor Mandarin. (Would you want George Bush (43) teaching your baby English?) You need to find people, who speak the correct dialect you’re learning, to practice with daily and continue to study everyday no matter what. Furthermore, you should translate each sentence in Chinese movies, videos and articles to understand how they express themselves and their current lingo.

 

There are no short cuts in learning Mandarin. Men who have found a Chinese wife online; have always started off learning Mandarin for all the wrong reasons. Then they make a half ass and short lived effort at learning Mandarin. Simply stated, you have to dedicate your life to learning Mandarin Chinese because that is your passion in life.

 

I’ve never read a posting, from even a single member, who has used either CD systems in an attempt to learn Mandarin; post that they’re now fully proficient or even proficient at even an immediate level at speaking, communicating and understanding Mandarin.

 

Nobody, None, Zippo, Áã.

[credzba]

I thought I was making great progress with Rosetta Stone when I overheard some people talking on the plane...and knew some of the words they were saying!

 

When someone who just started learning Mandarin via a CD system, say that they can understand some “words” of a conversation between native speaking Mandarin Chinese individuals, I respectfully doubt it. I mean no disrespect towards your efforts; 3 years ago, I was where you are now. I go back to my original comment about learning Mandarin, “You don’t know what you don’t know”.

 

Anyone reading similar postings shouldn’t think you can get a CD system, and then within a few weeks understand parts/words of a conversation between Chinese people. YOU CAN NOT! PERIOD, END OF DISCUSSION. What you may have heard are a few “sounds” which were familiar, but what words they represented and how they were being used is far beyond the ability of someone just starting to learn Mandarin. It takes a few to several years of dedicated studying to understand “some words” with certainty, between native Mandarin speaking individuals.

 

This lack of ability to understand is based upon several factors about Mandarin:

a) Dialects used in China

B) Paraphrasing used in English translations

c) Syllables in Mandarin with numerous unrelated meanings

d) Context is required for understanding

e) No loanwords

f) Tonal aspects of Mandarin

 

 

1) Dialects

– There are approximately 10 major dialects used in China. Individuals new to learning Mandarin think there is just one – Chinese. People in Beijing

can

’t understand people from Shenzhen or the southeast coastal area. People in Shanghai have a difficult time understanding people in both Beijing and Shenzhen. Have you ever wondered why there are subtitles on all of CCTV broadcasts? It’s because there are

so

many spoken dialects, but they all use the same writing system

so

they need subtitles for everyone to understand.

So

, to think the conversation you overheard is the Mandarin which you are studying is not 100% certain by any means.

 

2) Paraphrasing

– This is the main reason to get off those western based Mandarin teaching CD’s systems. After you have studied Mandarin for awhile and have developed a working vocabulary of several hundred words, you’ll notice that the English translation is no where near what the actual literal translation is. Therefore, those CD’s systems do a poor job of teaching the use of individual words correctly and accordingly you’re weak at forming and understanding sentences. The translation is paraphrased using English grammar rules, sentence structure and just some laziness. Someone new to studying Mandarin is not aware of this for a few years and it retards your ability to actually understand Mandarin because Mandarin sentence structure and grammar is

so

very different then English.

So

what you think you heard may have a completely different meaning, if you are a beginner.

 

3) Syllables

– This is singularly what makes Mandarin

so

difficult. – Mandarin is made up of about 400 syllables which are mostly 3 – 4 letters long (using the

pinyin

system) to make up their words. By contrast English has about 2,400. To make up for the limited number of syllables Mandarin uses tones, but that still leaves Mandarin short. In English syllables

can

’t stand independently as a word, but Mandarin’s they

can

stand alone as a word. Additionally, Mandarin syllables

can

be part of several other syllables to form a completely new word very different then the individual syllable meaning. Syllables with numerous multiple meanings and uses, is what makes Mandarin

so

difficult to understand while learning. Take the word/syllable ‘yes’ in Mandarin (shi4). “Shi” is a syllable which

can

stand alone or it

can

be used with other syllables to form over 999 other very different words in Mandarin (it maybe more, but my computerized Mandarin dictionary by a Chinese software company max out at 999). Therefore when studying Mandarin, you need quite a large vocabulary just to start understanding sentences. Mandarin has a huge learning curve just to reach an elementary level before you

can

identify a syllable being used as a stand alone word or is the syllable being used as part of a group of other syllables to form a completely different word from the individual components.

So

yes you may have overheard a syllable in a conversation, but was the syllable being used as the word you “learned” or was it being used as part of 999 other words you don’t know yet? It is doubtful you understood the word being used.

 

One last point about Mandarin syllables, many groups of them sound amazingly identical (zhi,chi,shi) or (keng, heng, ceng, seng, zheng, cheng, sheng) are just a few.

So

it’s extremely difficult to not only pick out of a group the correct syllable but also the correct tone you heard. You have no idea about this when you just started learning. Therefore, you have no way, as a beginner, to differentiate the use of syllables/words in Mandarin to understand parts of the day to day conversations which you overheard. Those CD’s systems don’t mention these facts because they don’t want you to be discouraged before you start. Rosetta Stone and Pimsleur instead want you to think learning Mandarin is a piece of cake if you buy their CD’s and give them your money.

 

4) Context

is required for understanding. Words in English are precise and

can

be understood without knowing the conversation. But in Mandarin there are

so

many ways to use the same syllable/words you need context for understanding. Also in Mandarin a large percentage of their words, which sound, written the same in

pinyin

and have the same tone also have very different multiple meanings. Many words have over 12 very different meanings and the only way to separate out the correct meaning is to have context of the conversation or READ/UNDERSTAND the written Chinese script, not

pinyin

. Therefore, for non native speakers, you need the context of a conversation to understand what is being said. Consequently, this leads to another very steep learning curve, you just

can

’t understand a few words, but you need to understand a lot of what is being said

so

you

can

comprehend the context of a conversation and be able to parse out the individual words correctly.

 

5) Lack of “Loanwords”.

Another facet about English which makes it great is we adopt words from other languages, known as “loanwords”, without a second thought. The Chinese hate loanwords because it makes their language/culture tainted. Yes, I know there are a few exceptions but generally no loanwords. The Chinese take their already limited supply of syllables and string some of them together to make up a new word that sounds similar to the foreign word. Their newly created word makes no sense, but it just sounds a little like the foreign words

so

they use it. The problem with this practice is it makes an even larger percentage of their vocabulary words sound the same. Take “Coke” for example. It is a brand name product available everywhere in China and around the world,

so

why not call it “Coke”? No, instead in Mandarin it’s “ke3 kou3 ke3 le4” then you have to worry about the correct tones and adjust the tonal based upon tone rules. If that is not enough there are measure words/classifiers which are required to worry about and if you want

ice

cubes (which Chinese restaurant NEVER have available) or a ‘

can

of Coke’ you could run the total number of words, classifiers and tones up to 18 things to remember and pronounce, all for a COKE ! In English - One word, one syllable, and no tones.

 

6) Tonal aspects of Mandarin

. Everyone knows Mandarin is a tonal language, but there are 2 points that never get mentioned in these discussions.

a) To understand a person speaking you really need to know all the meanings of the different tones of a single word and recall them instantly. That is nearly impossible for non native speakers. Otherwise if you don’t know the correct word/tone combination you will naturally think of the incorrect meaning based upon the only tone meaning you know.

 

B) The other point is the main problems with tones. Most Chinese people will NOT make the “leap of faith” and get to the correct meaning of the word you are saying, if you happen to miss the proper tone. It’s the same damn sound/word but only a very slight incorrect inflection in your voice. But they still refuse to guess at the correct words by substituting the right tone. The Chinese refuse to “throw you a bone” to help you out. I faced this everyday while practicing my Mandarin. This problem was also pointed out extensively in a book “Dreaming in Chinese” by Deborah Fellows, a Harvard trained Linguistic Professional, who was studying Mandarin in China for 2 years. A Harvard language teacher couldn’t speak Mandarin after 2 years

so

what possible chance does a beginner adult, without a background in languages, have with a CD system? It’s IMPOSSIBLE!

 

I haven’t even started talking about high speed and sloppy pronunciation, sentence structures, idioms & “set sayings” that Chinese people use all the time, which if you don’t know them, you can’t understand what is being said. One final problem is the inconsistency or lack of standardization of their language in teaching materials. As an example, many words are written differently and have different tone marks depending on what reference source you are using.

 

All of the above I’ve mentioned, makes Mandarin a very difficult language to learn for non Chinese people. So for a beginner to say they understood “some words” between native Mandarin speaking individuals I doubt it. 知之为知之，不知为不知

 

 

English is referred to as “the language of kings” and Mandarin Chinese is referred to as “the language of the common people”. After studying Mandarin for several years, you will understand why and the differences.

 

Once I’ve read the following about learning Chinese…. (“Someone once said that learning Chinese is "a five-year lesson in humility”. I used to think this meant that at the end of five years you will have mastered Chinese and learned humility along the way. However, now having studied Chinese for over six years, I have concluded that actually the phrase means that after five years your Chinese will still be abysmal, but at least you will have thoroughly learned humility.”) I fully agree and understand now as I’m well into my third year of diligently studying Mandarin.

 

To think you can learn Mandarin Chinese via a CD’s system is absolutely ridiculous. Moreover, you can’t listen to a few CD’s when you are jogging, driving or biking and expect to learn Mandarin Chinese. To learn Mandarin as an adult, you need to have several Mandarin Chinese learning sources available and laid out ready for use (I’ve used about 20 over the years), be sitting at a desk, alone and be 100% focused for long hours at a time, which will then turn into days, weeks, months and years. You need to attend quality courses with a qualified instructor and have private tutoring sessions. Please note: just because a person speaks Mandarin, DOES NOT make them qualified to teach or tutor Mandarin. (Would you want George Bush (43) teaching your baby English?) You need to find people, who speak the correct dialect you’re learning, to practice with daily and continue to study everyday no matter what. Furthermore, you should translate each sentence in Chinese movies, videos and articles to understand how they express themselves and their current lingo.

 

There are no short cuts in learning Mandarin. Men who have found a Chinese wife online; have always started off learning Mandarin for all the wrong reasons. Then they make a half ass and short lived effort at learning Mandarin. Simply stated, you have to dedicate your life to learning Mandarin Chinese because that is your passion in life.

 

I’ve never read a posting, from even a single member, who has used either CD systems in an attempt to learn Mandarin; post that they’re now fully proficient or even proficient at even an immediate level at speaking, communicating and understanding Mandarin.

 

Nobody, None, Zippo, 零.

 

Depressing ... back to the books

[Dennis143]

At 62, ain't gonna learn Chinese in my lifetime. What I try to do is learn how to phonetically say a different phrase in Chinese each week. I then practice on my many Chinese friends here in the SoCal Chinese community.

 

I think this is good practice for my older Chinese ESL students also.

[JamesnYuHong]

I first touched Mandarin when I was 22. Fortunately I learned the tones and pronunciation pretty well then -- not from a class, but from a girl I was dating.

 

I'm 36 now, and have studied off and on over the years -- predominately "off." I've had a few bursts where I studied hard for months at a time, maybe even a year. I haven't studied seriously in a few years. Have been married to a Chinese woman (not the original one) for eight years now.

 

I can understand most casual conversations, if the topic is something I'm familiar with. Chinese people, like people anywhere, tend to talk about the same things again and again. I don't have the world's best vocabulary, maybe 3,000 words. I've never seriously studied characters, never attended classes, though I had about seven sessions with a tutor about 12 years ago. I can speak about run-of-the-mill topics, though I get stuck frequently and am not as good at talking as I am at listening. I don't have to speak Mandarin that often, and when I do, it's light-duty.

 

I have no doubt at all that with proper time and inclination, I could attain some form of "fluency" within a year or two. I doubt it's going to happen, because there are other ways I need to spend my time, such as raising my family and earning a living. The cost-benefit ratio doesn't work.

 

I would call it half-decent Chinese with half-assed effort. I do not think Chinese is as hard as many posters are making it out to be. Granted, I started at a younger age. There is probably also some natural aptitude that factors in.

 

I don't think age is a real issue in terms of cognitive ability to learn words and grammar, at least not until well into the retirement years. However, as we age, our identity and self-image set firmer and firmer. Making new sounds, speaking in a new language, feel more and more awkward and threatening to our ego. At a younger age, before that is all firmly fixed, it's easier to step out of our comfort zone.

 

To me, the best thing you can do is get the pronunciation right from the beginning. I was obsessed with figuring out the tones when I started. The thing that helped me down the road was making a bunch of flash cards. It was before smartphones. I made them by hand. I went to the library and copied useful-looking words from Chinese-learning books, then drilled myself. My wife always had a lot of friends over, and I would gradually hear more and more of the words I had learned. Eventually there's an inflection point where you understand the majority and just have to ask what a word means here or there.

Edited October 8, 2012 by JamesnYuHong (see edit history)

[Bparks777]

I use Rosetta Stone, and the Pimsleur Method. I personally prefer Pimsleur, because it really stresses your intonation. I have received many compliments on my pronunciation which I credit to the Pimsleur Method. Above all else I believe curiosity is the best tool, my lady speaks perfect English (corrects my English often) and I have learned more vocabulary by simply asking questions, and by practicing talking with the people. At night I often visit the local convenient store for water, and more mainly to practice interacting with the clerk. Start watching Chinese movies and really immersing yourself in hearing the language.

 

I'm no pro, but I do believe I have learned very quickly. I believe Rosetta Stone is very very helpful in quickly expanding your vocabulary, while Pimsleur helps you with phrases, and trains you on how to properly construct sentences. While like I said watching Chinese movies helps you get use to hearing the language. My original problem was that many Chinese speak INCREDIBLY FAST so even though I knew vocabulary, at the speed they spoke it seemed all the words blended together. The more I watched movies, and heard the language the better it got. Good luck on your trip, and have fun!

Edited October 10, 2012 by Bparks777 (see edit history)

[A Mafan]

 

I don't think you have to learn pinyin, but if you don't then you need a live in Chinese teacher

The Chinese teachers I've had call live-in Chinese teacher a "long-haired dictionary"...

chang toufa cidian

长头发词典

[credzba]

I don't think you have to learn pinyin, but if you don't then you need a live in Chinese teacher

The Chinese teachers I've had call live-in Chinese teacher a "long-haired dictionary"...

chang toufa cidian

长头发词典

 

The problem with my 长头发词典 is it, is a read once dictionary.

You can only look up a word once, and after that it becomes increasingly difficult to get that answer from the dictionary again.

[A Mafan]

My opinion on language is that you have two main parts:

Grammar, and vocabulary. If you want a building, you have to have the right materials, and good quality materials. But a pile of good quality materials doesn't make a building. So the materials (vocabulary) have to be put together in the right order, the right structure (grammar).

 

I'd say you need to start with learning grammar basics. Learn the three "de" markers (的 地 得) and the different ways they are used. (possessive, adjective marker, adverb marker). Learn the 把 pattern. Understand how a Chinese sentence breaks out. They don't put separations in, so you have to learn to read them: a single character is usually a function word or pronoun; a two character combination is the most common way you see verbs, objects, nouns; a three character combination is usually proper name; a four character combination is usually a phrase or saying (often idiomatic, chengyu 成语） But don't bother studying chengyus until after you are already fluent in Chinese. Most people don't use them that often in daily life.

 

You learn that structure while learning your basic, survival level Chinese.

 

I think the best way to do that is to read children's books, or something equally simple in natural language.

 

Once you have that down, you start adding in vocabulary. learn all the nouns and verbs you can, and start using them in simple SVO sentences. Sure, Chinese has some more complicated sentences, but most of their complexity is in adding descriptors. The hardest thing in a long Chinese sentence is figuring out which subject or object is being modified...it can change the meaning of the sentence.

 

But you must, must, must, must, must (I can't emphasize this enough) find a way to have fun studying Chinese. If it feels like work, you'll never get anywhere. Find some cartoons that you can enjoy. Find a television serial you think is interesting. Get into Chinese music. I can guarantee that they have enough variations of music that you can find just about any style you want. So maybe there aren't many songs that would classify as "ska", but I know of at least a dozen reggae style songs, and more than 50 jazz songs, bunches of blues, etc. These different songs are scattered across more than a dozen different singers...in the Chinese pop culture, the emphasis is on the person, not the style. That frees singers to do all sorts of different styles on one disc, and they do. But I digress.

 

The point is, you can get youtube videos of all sorts of songs and use the pause button to look up every character. Then watch/listen/sing along once a day. You will be learning Chinese, but in a fun way!

 

Or watch the television serial, and pause and look up every character, work on it until you understand at least 80%. The first episode may take you a week or more to get through. But the characters will use the same phrases, vocabulary and grammar. The 2nd episode will go faster, and each episode will get faster as you go, to the point that by the time you get to the last 3-4, you will be able to watch at near full speed.

 

Maybe. It depends on your progress.

 

But then whatever you do, make flashcards. And when you find yourself with nothing to do (waiting for an appointment, using the bathroom, waiting on your wife/husband to get ready to go, etc), pull out the flashcards and run through them. You don't have to test yourself hard, just glance at the Chinese character, then turn it over and look at the pronunciation and English. The point is repetition. Mindless repetition will get it into your head faster/easier than racking your brains to memorize it.

 

Seriously.

 

Learn how to write characters, just until you learn stroke order so that you can look characters up in a dictionary. They use the first stroke or the main radical to classify their characters in a dictionary, and you must understand that to look characters up. And you must look characters up to understand them.

 

Finally, don't worry so much about tones. Do your best to memorize, learn, and use them. But they are one element of pronunciation. Some chinese have a problem with th and s. So they may get "sink" and "think" pronounced wrong. But context lets you know which one they mean. Nearly every Chinese pronounces "Thanksgiving" as "Sexgiving". Do you have any problem understanding what they really mean? No.

 

Chinese without the tones is the same way. Context will help avoid 80% of the problem. But you must listen to how they speak, you must try to model their flow, and inflection. Even if you know the tones, if you use English inflection to emphasize a character, you will sound funny to them (and get teased).

 

Any questions or problems? I am always willing to be a language mentor. I have a few websites that I can share that help people with study.