Bank transfer to US

[david_dawei]

Anyone figure out how to transfer money from a chinese bank to US bank?

 

BOA preferred.

[Randy W]

I think this is about as close as we've come to a post about that - maybe if you PM Mr 2mercedes he can help you. He didn't get an answer, but I'm sure he's figured it out on his own.

 

http://candleforlove.com/forums/index.php?/topic/42786-banking-in-china/page__p__567101#entry567101

 

What have you tried? Did you check with the bank? Western Union? If so, what did they say?

 

There's always the david_dawei courier service (your next trip - assuming it's your money), but I'm sure the problem is converting to dollars.

[david_dawei]

I have tried or looked into it yet. But both of them have money which will periodically go into their bank accounts in china which they cannot access unless physically there... or if there is an e-transfer method one has found.

[Randy W]

<br />I have tried or looked into it yet. But both of them have money which will periodically go into their bank accounts in china which they cannot access unless physically there... or if there is an e-transfer method one has found.<br />

 

Oh, I see! That may be a problem without someone to physically do a little leg work. China Construction Bank has electronic banking (I'm sure others do also), but the only thing I've used it for is to check balances. It's in Chinese only, so I don't know what else they support.

[Beachey]

I have tried or looked into it yet. But both of them have money which will periodically go into their bank accounts in china which they cannot access unless physically there... or if there is an e-transfer method one has found.

 

No idea if this would work but if you had the China Construction Bank ATM card in the US, can you use it at Bank of America? Is it free the way CCB ATM withdrawals are in the China using a BofA card?

[computerguy]

I have tried or looked into it yet. But both of them have money which will periodically go into their bank accounts in china which they cannot access unless physically there... or if there is an e-transfer method one has found.

 

No idea if this would work but if you had the China Construction Bank ATM card in the US, can you use it at Bank of America? Is it free the way CCB ATM withdrawals are in the China using a BofA card?

 

I can say a little bit about this. If you go to China Construction ATM , and Bank of America knows your in China (You need to have told them, if not your card will lock for security reasons) then it will be about a 1%-2% Fee to use it. As for transferring to Bank of America. I haven't done this yet but someone has told me you can switch to dollars at any bank but its really complicated for foreigners because they need a bunch of information from your employer, the best way to go I was told is let your wife or gf or something convert it to USD, and apparently there's even shady people at some banks that will do it for you. And from my understanding any bank should be able to wire that to a bank in usa...I'm sure there will be a fee for that too though.

[rabbit]

use west union.... it is the easiest way

[Randy W]

[

I can say a little bit about this. If you go to China Construction ATM , and Bank of America knows your in China (You need to have told them, if not your card will lock for security reasons) then it will be about a 1%-2% Fee to use it. As for transferring to Bank of America. I haven't done this yet but someone has told me you can switch to dollars at any bank but its really complicated for foreigners because they need a bunch of information from your employer, the best way to go I was told is let your wife or gf or something convert it to USD, and apparently there's even shady people at some banks that will do it for you. And from my understanding any bank should be able to wire that to a bank in usa...I'm sure there will be a fee for that too though.

 

Off topic, but this is not true - there is no fee. Just a 0.01% hit on the conversion rate.

[credzba]

I have tried or looked into it yet. But both of them have money which will periodically go into their bank accounts in china which they cannot access unless physically there... or if there is an e-transfer method one has found.

 

No idea if this would work but if you had the China Construction Bank ATM card in the US, can you use it at Bank of America? Is it free the way CCB ATM withdrawals are in the China using a BofA card?

 

I can say a little bit about this. If you go to China Construction ATM , and Bank of America knows your in China (You need to have told them, if not your card will lock for security reasons) then it will be about a 1%-2% Fee to use it. As for transferring to Bank of America. I haven't done this yet but someone has told me you can switch to dollars at any bank but its really complicated for foreigners because they need a bunch of information from your employer, the best way to go I was told is let your wife or gf or something convert it to USD, and apparently there's even shady people at some banks that will do it for you. And from my understanding any bank should be able to wire that to a bank in usa...I'm sure there will be a fee for that too though.

 

 

David wants to do it the OTHER way though. His girl(s) have an account in CCB that is receiving yuan at some periodic rate. They would like to be able to withdraw that money in America.

 

It was proposed he could bring a China Construction Bank card to America, and use it in a Bank of America ATM.

 

It seems reasonable it should work, but no one I know has tried.

 

We have a CCB account, but no card to try for him.

[Randy W]

Found this -

China Construction Bank is a member of the Global ATM Alliance, a joint venture of several major international banks that allows customers of the banks to use their ATM card or check card at another bank within the Global ATM Alliance with no transaction fees when traveling internationally. However, handling costs and VISA processing fees may be applied. Other participating banks are:

 

• Barclays (United Kingdom),
• Bank of America (United States),
• BNP Paribas (France),
• Deutsche Bank (Germany),
• Santander Serfin (Spain and Mexico),
• Scotiabank (Canada) and
• Westpac (Australia and New Zealand).

So there's hope it may work!

[david_dawei]

credzba and randy seem to get the gist of it...

 

The one small problem is that CCB is not in the mix. But maybe the idea is to open and try it... "Try" is the operative word; ergo, nobody has done it yet.

[yuehan123]

My wife and I each have a CCB internet capable bank account. That is, we can access the accounts from the US and transfer funds between them. We have not found a way to manually or electronically transfer funds between CCB accounts and B of A accounts. Nor have we tried very hard to do it.

 

I did take my CCB Long Card (Debit Card) to the B of A ATM just now.

 

The answer- No, I could not withdraw funds here in the US. I get a message such as "Sorry, the service you have requested is not available at this time."

 

I went inside the B of A branch to ask about this. The answer I got was along the lines of "B of A arranges these types of services for our customers in the other countries. Quite often, the other country's bank does not, or B of A does not allow the reverse service." Take that for what it is worth from a small, out in the country, branch assistant manager.

 

Below is a photo of what the bank calls their 'long credit card'. The difference in appearance between this card and my card is that my card lacks the mastercard/visa logo in the lower right hand corner.

 

CCB's description of this card: "The Long Credit Card is a Long Card product. It offers two currencies, and functions as a standard international credit card that can be used both at home and abroad. It is a real standard international credit card. You may make the repayment after consumption, and the grace period may be as long as 50 days.

 

Best to go inside a branch of CCB and find out how to do what you want do to.

 

http://www.ccb.com/en/personal/20090616_1245113162/34_1141024073843.jpg

[credzba]

My wife and I each have a CCB internet capable bank account. That is, we can access the accounts from the US and transfer funds between them. We have not found a way to manually or electronically transfer funds between CCB accounts and B of A accounts. Nor have we tried very hard to do it.

 

I did take my CCB Long Card (Debit Card) to the B of A ATM just now.

 

The answer- No, I could not withdraw funds here in the US. I get a message such as "Sorry, the service you have requested is not available at this time."

 

I went inside the B of A branch to ask about this. The answer I got was along the lines of "B of A arranges these types of services for our customers in the other countries. Quite often, the other country's bank does not, or B of A does not allow the reverse service." Take that for what it is worth from a small, out in the country, branch assistant manager.

 

Below is a photo of what the bank calls their 'long credit card'. The difference in appearance between this card and my card is that my card lacks the mastercard/visa logo in the lower right hand corner.

 

CCB's description of this card: "The Long Credit Card is a Long Card product. It offers two currencies, and functions as a standard international credit card that can be used both at home and abroad. It is a real standard international credit card. You may make the repayment after consumption, and the grace period may be as long as 50 days.

 

Best to go inside a branch of CCB and find out how to do what you want do to.

 

 

Good info.

I think what you tried was exactly what David was asking, so now he will have to find another way.

 

One way I have done with my daughter (occasionally gets money from relatives).

Have the deposit made to my china bank account, and when I see the yuan in there, I give her the cash here.

 

Wouldn't work for $10,000 but it works for smaller amounts.

[canrun]

David wants to do it the OTHER way though. His girl(s) have an account in CCB that is receiving yuan at some periodic rate. They would like to be able to withdraw that money in America.

 

It was proposed he could bring a China Construction Bank card to America, and use it in a Bank of America ATM.

 

It seems reasonable it should work, but no one I know has tried.

 

We have a CCB account, but no card to try for him.

 

Was just wondering if you or anyone else has had success with this approach?

 

My wife has a CCB account in China with a bit of money left in it. She wants her sister to send her a card that will let her withdraw these funds here in the U.S. whenever we need a bit more at the end of the month. Anyone see how this would be possible? (Or the funds could be deposited in a different bank in China as well.)

 

Thanks,

Aaron

Edited October 14, 2011 by canrun (see edit history)

[2mike&jin]

David wants to do it the OTHER way though. His girl(s) have an account in CCB that is receiving yuan at some periodic rate. They would like to be able to withdraw that money in America.

 

It was proposed he could bring a China Construction Bank card to America, and use it in a Bank of America ATM.

 

It seems reasonable it should work, but no one I know has tried.

 

We have a CCB account, but no card to try for him.

 

Was just wondering if you or anyone else has had success with this approach?

 

My wife has a CCB account in China with a bit of money left in it. She wants her sister to send her a card that will let her withdraw these funds here in the U.S. whenever we need a bit more at the end of the month. Anyone see how this would be possible? (Or the funds could be deposited in a different bank in China as well.)

 

Thanks,

Aaron

 

A subject NEAR AND DEAR TO MY HEART.

 

I tried my BofA Card at several CCB ATM's in China and it didn't work. However, I didn't go to a CCB bank and try it. This TRIP, starting 2 Nov is ostensibly to "CLEAN" up some of the Administrative details of property, banking, family - in China so it is high on my list of TO DO's. I've been able to move virtually any amount to China, and via various accounts convert it to RMB and get it into various CD's or other investments. Although I have talked about it and thought about it I have not tried to 'repatriate" any significant amounts of RMB/USD to the US. Excuse the cut and paste, but the best advice that I have seen on the issue, is contained in a "expats web blog", which kind of goes over several methods - some more viable than others. Dated from 10-2010.....

 

 

 

Chinese Yuan Investment - Recent China Trip

A couple weeks ago, I spent 5 days in Shekou, a part of Shenzhen China, to open a Chinese Yuan or Renminbi (RMB) bank account and make some local currency financial investments.

 

Investment case

 

1. US$ has been losing value overseas under US monetary policy for most of the last decade. Fed compromising dollar in order to reduce effective foreign debt burden, stimulate exports, and create the illusion of robust equity markets. Recent quantitative easing policy is effectively a stock dividend – printing new shares with no change in capital. Implementation of this policy in the coming months will put more downward pressure on buck if Fed follows through.

 

2. Diversification out of US$ is an increasingly necessary risk reduction measure, especially for those who live abroad or plan to so in future. Effective US$ cost of living in many areas of the world has increased 50-100% or more in last 10 years, due in large part to US$ depreciation vis-à-vis other fiat currencies.

 

3. US$ interest rates are near all time lows for all durations of fixed income instruments – both public and private. Most of these investments don’t even keep pace with the true rate of inflation. Current risk premium is low as well making so-called ‘high yield’ bonds not very ‘high yield’. There are still a few currencies which offer higher yields at reasonable risk through certain domestic fixed income instruments. The Chinese Yuan is one of these.

 

4. The Chinese Yuan is still a government controlled currency and as such, has lagged many other foreign currencies including some in Asia. Since July 21, 2005 when PRC government began implementing currency reform (ie moving gradually away from US$ peg), Chinese Yuan has appreciated just 25% against US$ vs. 68% for Thai Baht, 64% for Japanese Yen, and 47% for Brazilian Real. Since China is an export dominated economy, depressing local currency’s rate of exchange has worked in its favor. But given the large PPP gap this has created between China and North America/EU/Japan, there is increasing political pressure for it to allow for more rapid appreciation of RMB or risk a trade war. The IMF estimated that, by PPP, one US$ was equivalent to just RMB3.8 back in 2008. The current rate of exchange is 6.64.

 

5. As a ‘managed currency’, Chinese Yuan exchange rate to US$ exhibits low volatility compared to free market currencies. Moreover, there has been a clear secular appreciation trend since 2005 liberalization which was only interrupted during 2008-09 financial crisis when US$ index quickly gained value on top of leveraged investment unwinding. Even during that period, RMB did not lose any ground. It just temporarily stopped appreciating.

 

Risks

 

1. If another global financial crisis materializes, there would likely be short term upward pressure on US$ index as many foreign levered investments using US$ for financing would be quickly re-deemed and converted to cash. From July 2008 low to March 2009 high, this index jumped 24% on such de-leveraging. However, RMB was one of the few currencies not to decline against US$ during that period as mentioned above. I believe its status as a controlled currency helps to mitigate this risk.

 

2. Since RMB is not a freely traded currency, it is effectively less liquid than something you trade in online FX account. Moving in and out of it is more cumbersome and requires higher transaction and time costs. This makes it unsuitable as a short term investment.

 

3. A few months before Beijing Olympics, relevant banking and finance rules for foreigners were relaxed somewhat to accommodate a big influx of tourists and have not been changed since. Going forward, Chinese government might change regulations again to the detriment of foreign account holders, especially if its relations with US sour or a trade war ensues.

 

4. Since inward and outward remittances overseas require physical presence of owner, an account holder would have a problem if he was for some reason unable to obtain a China visa. However, this risk is largely mitigated by the Union Pay system which allows daily withdrawals up an equivalent of RMB 10,000 per day at competitive exchange rates and at a fee of just RMB 15 per transactions at participating overseas ATMs.

 

5. If an account holder is married to a Chinese citizen and later divorces her, she could easily discover the existence of the account and possibly claim ownership of half according to Chinese divorce laws. The best way to mitigate this risk is to close account and transfer funds overseas before getting married to a local.

 

6. If a person dies while holding such an account, his heirs would probably need to visit China and hire a local lawyer to take over ownership of the account.

 

Steps involved

 

1. Opening a Chinese commercial bank account requires you show-up personally, similar to private banks in Switzerland and Andorra. You will need to bring and show your passport. Your bank account will be multi-currency including RMB and most leading globally traded currencies. This will allow you to wire-in and directly deposit currencies such as US$, Euro, or Japanese Yen.

 

2. Converting your foreign currency deposit into RMB also requires your physical presence. So after you open the account, you will need to fax wiring instructions to your foreign financial institution and wait for funds to arrive. The government limits foreigners to US$50,000 worth of aggregate Chinese Yuan purchases per calendar year at commercial banks. FX transactions made by foreigners are instantly uploaded into a centralized national database so using multiple banks will not get around this. But the regulation can be easily bypassed for amounts above US$50,000, at a slightly higher transaction cost, by using official foreign exchange bureaus (外币代兑点) or (FXB). These are actually subsidiaries of the commercial banks but fall under different rules. So, for example, if you remitted in US$60,000, you could convert US$50,000 into RMB directly at the bank, wire the remaining US$10,000 to a nearby FXB, convert to RMB, and wire it right back to your bank account.

 

3. Eventually, you may want to convert your RMB funds back to US$ and repatriate them to your home country. At Chinese commercial banks, such conversions for foreigners are restricted as follows:

 

a. If you convert your US$ balance directly to RMB, you will not be allowed to convert back at the bank. You will need to wire the funds to an FXB, have them make the conversion, and then have them wire the funds to your overseas financial institution.

 

b. If you withdraw your US$ balance in cash (up to US$10,000 per day allowed), pay a foreign cash withdrawal fee of 0.4%, convert cash to RMB at bank, and then deposit funds back into your account, you will be given 24 month FX receipts for each of these transactions. These receipts will allow you to convert your funds back to US$ directly at bank until the 24 month period expires. The most you will be allowed to convert to RMB directly at bank is US$50,000 equivalent value per calendar year as mentioned above. This is probably the most expensive way to go.

 

c. Since you will be issued a Union Pay ATM card, you can also withdraw up to RMB10,000 per day (roughly US$1,500) at participating overseas ATMs at attractive exchange rates and a local fee of just 15 RMB per transaction. For ATMs with no extra fees, like the ones in Taiwan, this is probably the cheapest way to go.

 

4. Summary of account opening and investment steps

 

a. Show-up at bank during business hours with passport and if you don’t speak Mandarin, a translator.

b. Take a number and wait to be called.

c. Fill-in required forms, let them copy your passport, and deposit at least the minimum (10 RMB) in cash.

d. Receive ATM card and for some banks, a passbook.

e. Speak with someone about how to use online banking system.

f. Ask for a copy of inward wiring instructions.

g. In the evening, fax instructions to your overseas bank or broker to remit US$ funds into account.

h. Check next day at bank to see if funds have arrived. Transfer usually arrives overnight from US.

i. Convert up to US$50,000 directly to RMB.

j. Speak to personal banker about available CDs and other products, choose, and invest.

 

Direct round trip transaction costs using FXB to convert back to US$ as per 3a above

 

1. Fee to wire transfer US$50,000 from Charles Schwab to bank is US$25.

2. After exchanging US$49,975 to RMB, fee to wire these funds from bank to FXB is 20.5 RMB.

3. Effective Bid/Ask spread 1.4% using FXB to convert back to US$.

4. Wire transfer fee from FXB back to Charles Schwab is 180 RMB.

5. Total round trip cost is US$743 or 1.49%.

 

Direct round trip transaction costs using no-fee ATM to convert back to US$ as per 3c above

 

1. Fee to wire transfer US$50,000 from Charles Schwab to bank is US$25.

2. If we conservatively estimate that funds will be withdrawn via 50 ATM transactions, fee is 750 RMB (50 X 15).

3. Effective Bid/Ask spread varies but is approximately 0.2 – 0.4%. using ATM to convert back to US$.

4. Total round trip cost is US$237 – 337 or 0.47 – 0.67%.

 

List of PRC Banks

 

See this Wikipedia link for a fairly recent list with sub-links for each institution: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_banks_in_the_People%27s_Republic_of_China

 

Initially, I chose Bank of China given its comprehensive (urban/suburban/rural) branch network throughout China and convenient location in Shekou. But I switched over to Bank of Communications next door when I discovered it offered a more attractive investment product.

 

How to invest your RMB

 

As a foreigner, you are not permitted to invest in 3rd party domestic funds offered at the banks. But you may invest in CDs or bank sponsored products.

 

1. Current demand and CD annualized simple interest rates offered at all PRC banks. There are no entry or exit fees for these investments

 

a. Demand: 0.36%

b. 3 M: 1.91%

c. 6 M: 2.2%

d. 1 Y: 2.5%

e. 2 Y: 3.25%

f. 3 Y: 3.85%

g. 5 Y: 4.2%

 

2. Jiu Jiu Tian Li (久久添利) product offered by Bank of Communications pays a monthly cash dividend based on investment performance. The fund invests primarily in the local bond markets but also a bit in local equities and construction. Most importantly, it guarantees a monthly cash dividend of at least 1.75% annualized. Performance to date has been much better than that. Below is its track record of annualized dividend payments through last month which yields a cumulative average growth rate (CAGR) so far of 6.1%, much better than any of the CDs. However, momentum has declined as of late on the back of a weak domestic equity market. Keep in mind that this bank is owned by the central government and guarantees a monthly annualized cash yield of at least 1.75%.

 

2010/10: 5.14%

2010/9: 4.7%

2010/8: 4.4%

2010/7: 4.3%

2010/6: 3.1%

2010/5: 5.7%

2010/4: 5.0%

2010/3: 5.9%

2010/2: 6.0%

2010/1: 7.6%

2009/12: 8.0%

2009/11: 8.5%

2009/10: 7.1%

2009/9: 7.6%

 

The entry cost to get into the fund is 2% and exit cost is 2% if held less than a year, 1.5% if held 1-2 years, 1% if held 2-5 years, and 0 if held over 5 years. Given this fee structure, you probably should not invest unless you plan to hold it at least 2 years.

END OF BLOG:

 

 

FOR MY TWO MAO, since I don't like anything that smells illegal is to try and use the ATM method if I can avoid the fees, via BofA. If I can't get that to work well, then I will just pop for an HSBC world account or try the BOC in Los Angeles, Washington, or New York. If I can't get that to work - then search out an FX bank in Hong Kong to make it happen. One other concern that is still in my mind is the issue of our Lao Po's becoming USC's and what or how that might change the banking relationship. I know they all keep their ID's and only lose the passport - but sooner or later that registration will need to be renewed and that is where I think the eventual difficulties will arise. Best of Luck to all of you in this issue. It's not trivial for non-trivial amounts of money. (Anecdotally I know a Chinese guy who bought a very expensive house in Hawaii - $50K USD a day - until he had the money moved....they had to wait to close!)

Edited October 14, 2011 by 2mike&jin (see edit history)