Cultural Manipulation

[Guest ExChinaExpat]

At some point we've all heard it said, "I'm a traditional Chinese woman." I am happy to say that I have successfully translated the phrase into the following: I'm boring, and will seize every opportunity to manipulate you to my benefit.

 

Don't cave. Stay strong and true to your own culture, but always willing to bend 51% and no more. If there is to be compromise, she must move the other 49%. Okay, it's a rule of thumb, that can vary a bit, but by and large it holds true. So, can the willing be manipulated? Sure, you bet they can. As a matter of fact, the best manipulations manifest by making the manipulated one think it was their idea to choose it.

[Randy W]

I'll be interested to see where THIS is headed - I'm not sure that it's limited to those who claim to be traditional.

Edited April 17, 2011 by Randy W (see edit history)

[Guest ExChinaExpat]

We've all heard it said, "Chinese girls don't do/like that." Important note, Chinese girls don't like to be called women; unless they have traveled outside the borders of China, or they are over 50.

 

Of course, we as men know that no one girl/woman speaks for her entire ethnicity. So, what does she really mean? She could mean that she in fact does not do what her big sister does; but, more likely, she is saying, "Wow, I really hope you don't give up on this, because I really want to live a life with more adventure."

[Kyle]

At some point we've all heard it said, "I'm a traditional Chinese woman." I am happy to say that I have successfully translated the phrase into the following: I'm boring, and will seize every opportunity to manipulate you to my benefit.

 

Don't cave. Stay strong and true to your own culture, but always willing to bend 51% and no more. If there is to be compromise, she must move the other 49%. Okay, it's a rule of thumb, that can vary a bit, but by and large it holds true. So, can the willing be manipulated? Sure, you bet they can. As a matter of fact, the best manipulations manifest by making the manipulated one think it was their idea to choose it.

 

 

You know, I've never heard the "traditional Chinese woman" line before. Seriously.

 

As a matter of fact, the best manipulations manifest by making the manipulated one think it was their idea to choose it.

 

That's just selfish.

[tonado]

Marrying someone from a different country or culture is full of compromising. There shouldn't be a set percentage of compromise between the couple. Every couple is different. Using the term "Manipulation" sounds so evil.

[Guest ExChinaExpat]

Marrying someone from a different country or culture is full of compromising. There shouldn't be a set percentage of compromise between the couple. Every couple is different. Using the term "Manipulation" sounds so evil.

 

 

There are many evil components about it. However, the women who behave this way, do it for selfish reasons only. Most every expat in China will tell you about predatory Chinese women who will do just about anything and everything to meet and marry a Western man. Not every woman of China is interested in Western men, but there are a significant number of women who could care less about the man's physical appearance or personality. The wise man may notice this, but a foolish man will look the other way because he's been overcome by her beauty.

Edited April 17, 2011 by JiangsuExpat (see edit history)

[Guest ExChinaExpat]

 

You know, I've never heard the "traditional Chinese woman" line before. Seriously.

 

 

Very common words used by Chinese women. Take a look at the opening lines of Chinese women's online profiles. Another line often used is: "I'm just a simple woman."

 

I'm not really sure what that one means, because it seems to vary in the way it's used. Cultural and financial status plays a big role in China. It's measured by who you know, and one's level of education.

Edited April 17, 2011 by JiangsuExpat (see edit history)

[Mick]

You mentioned that the phrase "traditional Chinese woman" also is translated as, "I'm boring." Could you elaborate?

[Guest ExChinaExpat]

You mentioned that the phrase "traditional Chinese woman" also is translated as, "I'm boring." Could you elaborate?

 

 

Sure, I can understand how that could be misunderstood. I've discussed this topic with several of my Western colleagues, and also with some Chinese women. It's well-known that China is a closed society, and not easy for most common Chinese people to travel outside the borders of their own country. In fact, it's not unusual for many Chinese people to reach adulthood, and have never even left the province in which they live. For this reason, it becomes very difficult for them to experience other cultures and people from other cultures.

 

On the other hand, there is an increasing number of Chinese people who leave China for travel and education. These experiences are often life-changing as it is for most people who travel to other countries in the world. The word, "boring" is rather strong, but not intended to be disrespectful to those people who have never left China. In fact, there are some Chinese people who work hard to study other cultures, even though it may not be possible for them to travel and experience it first hand.

 

Cultural diversity can only happen when a person is open to learning more about another culture. That learning experience can be a frightening one, especially for those who've never met someone from another country, or moved to one. It takes a while to gain confidence and trust in something new. A little patience goes a long way. It's not easy to accept change and get outside your comfort zone. Those who do, are never boring.

[Scott@Hong]

I disagree with all your statements on so many levels.

 

You say

Chinese people to travel outside the borders of their own country. In fact, it's not unusual for many Chinese people to reach adulthood, and have never even left the province in which they live. For this reason, it becomes very difficult for them to experience other cultures and people from other cultures.

 

 

Chinese people cannot travel to western cultures easy, but they can travel to many locations around the world very easily. Also there our millions of Americans who are born, live and die within the confines of one state. My parents, and my brother have never lived outside the state they were born, western and eastern cultures are not so different, people just are unwilling to open their eyes to this fact because they think their culture is superior to another. Open your own eyes would be well advised.

 

Another comment you write

Most every expat in China will tell you about predatory Chinese women who will do just about anything and everything to meet and marry a Western man.

 

I have traveled extensively in China, in almost every major city from Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou, Chongqing, Chengdu etc etc. I have never experienced this so call "predatory" woman. In fact the only place I have ever seen this type of woman is on the multitude of dating websites and marriage broker websites that fill the internet. I have never seen this in day to day life in China. China again has its share of con artists, thieves, and common criminals just like every other country in the world.

 

I constantly see posts like this comparing cultures and a person saying this or that is bad, but look inside yourself, look around yourself and you will find every kind of person in any country you travel to or live in. Guess what some American men beat their wives, oh and guess what this happens in China, Germany, Brazil and any other country in the world. Guess what some American women want to marry for money, we call them trophy wives, hell we even have television shows about it, ever seen Desperate Housewives? Oh China has these women, Italy has these women, etc etc.

 

Another surprising observation, America has couples that have been married 50-60 years, never cheated on each other and love each other their entire lives. China has this also, as does every other country.

 

The only difference in the relationships of the people that frequent this board and the standard same country couple? There is NO DIFFERENCE. Couples no matter the peoples background in the relationship need to share, trust, love, and learn about the other persons history, likes, dislikes and everything else they can learn about the person.

[Guest ExChinaExpat]

Great. We have a true discussion beginning. Let's talk about this. I want to learn about the many "levels" in which you disagree and talk about them. Especially since you disagree with "ALL" of my statements.

 

I disagree with all your statements on so many levels.

 

You say Chinese people to travel outside the borders of their own country. In fact, it's not unusual for many Chinese people to reach adulthood, and have never even left the province in which they live. For this reason, it becomes very difficult for them to experience other cultures and people from other cultures.

 

Chinese people cannot travel to western cultures easy, but they can travel to many locations around the world very easily. Also there our millions of Americans who are born, live and die within the confines of one state. My parents, and my brother have never lived outside the state they were born, western and eastern cultures are not so different, people just are unwilling to open their eyes to this fact because they think their culture is superior to another. Open your own eyes would be well advised.

 

 

Let's talk about how easy it is for the average Chinese person to travel. First, to travel, you must have the means to travel. That means money, and time. Neither of these options are available to the average Chinese person, because their income just won't allow it. However, there are still several Chinese people who are taking advantage of relatively inexpensive tour groups to travel domestically.

 

I am smiling broadly when I read your statement, "western and eastern cultures are not so different." With a statement like that, do you believe there is any difference between the people of any culture of the world? In fact, the differences between Western and Chinese culture could not be more different. Moral values, education, medical treatment, political views, language, family, children, transportation, sanitation, and virtually everything else. In the end, we are all human, but that is just about where any similarity ends.

 

 

Another comment you write Most every expat in China will tell you about predatory Chinese women who will do just about anything and everything to meet and marry a Western man.

 

I have traveled extensively in China, in almost every major city from Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou, Chongqing, Chengdu etc etc. I have never experienced this so call "predatory" woman. In fact the only place I have ever seen this type of woman is on the multitude of dating websites and marriage broker websites that fill the internet. I have never seen this in day to day life in China. China again has its share of con artists, thieves, and common criminals just like every other country in the world.

 

I am not sure what you do when you travel, but if you are spending your time with your wife, or a woman, then you won't have much opportunity to see much of anything but the sights, and the walls within your hotel room. China is a poor country, with one of the largest separations between the rich and poor in the world. There are more millionaires in China than any other country in the world. There are also millions of Chinese people who are extremely poor. I have great respect for the people of China, and because I live and work here, have taken the time to get to know the culture and people. There is more mystery surrounding this country, than just about any other country of the world.

 

The people of China are generally hard-working, with a strong sense of family. There is however a growing incidence of divorce here, and many Chinese women have learned the sad truth the Chinese men are not interested in marrying a Chinese woman who has a Child. Why not? Because the man's family will not accept it. We from the West do not understand this. This is one of the major reasons why Chinese women with children are looking for a Western man; yes, because they have a child under the age of 18. Nothing wrong with this, as they are only seeking to improve their life.

 

Most of the women of China are honest, and hard working. But, there are quite a few out there who will take advantage of the naive Western man.

 

I constantly see posts like this comparing cultures and a person saying this or that is bad, but look inside yourself, look around yourself and you will find every kind of person in any country you travel to or live in. Guess what some American men beat their wives, oh and guess what this happens in China, Germany, Brazil and any other country in the world. Guess what some American women want to marry for money, we call them trophy wives, hell we even have television shows about it, ever seen Desperate Housewives? Oh China has these women, Italy has these women, etc etc.

 

I do not view a culture or people as being "bad" or "good." It is what it is. People do what they will, and it's everyone's choice to accept it at face value, and look a little deeper. Again, there are many poor people in China. There are also a large number of divorced women in China who have a child. They know it will be very difficult, if not impossible to marry a Chinese man because they already have a child. It is the dream of every Chinese person to marry and have a child. But, only one child. They want that child to be their own flesh and blood. This is the truth of China. Is it bad? Is it good? Neither. It's just the way it is.

 

 

 

Another surprising observation, America has couples that have been married 50-60 years, never cheated on each other and love each other their entire lives. China has this also, as does every other country.

 

The only difference in the relationships of the people that frequent this board and the standard same country couple? There is NO DIFFERENCE. Couples no matter the peoples background in the relationship need to share, trust, love, and learn about the other persons history, likes, dislikes and everything else they can learn about the person.

 

 

Right. Trust and love is a good thing. Another good thing is learning about the strong differences between Eastern and Western culture.

[Guest ExChinaExpat]

Neither of these options are available to the average Chinese person, because their income just won't allow it.

 

You do realize that the average Chinese person has one large tit and one testicle, don't you? Can't say I ever met an average person, Chinese or not.

 

 

I'm using the term "average" loosely to describe the median income. Every country has one of those, including China. When your income is under 3000 RMB per month, there isn't much left after you pay for monthly expenses. Just getting by is what people do who fall in this median category. Of course, if you have one large tit and one large testicle, you will have the option of seeking a career in entertainment.

 

[david_dawei]

The post title is definitely apt, IMO... I agree with a few of the comments and have said as much myself. The "traditional woman = bored manipulator" is a bit silly to stand on; the "modern chinese lady" will equally manipulate you B)

 

But I personally prefer some traditional sides; otherwise, why do I want a hyper modern, western obsessed chinese lady for; I can find that in the US and they are already programmed to western stupidity to boot

 

So I think "Traditional" is getting a bad rap here; unless it's purely preference; one may not want that so much. The key is simply to see how compatible you are in your ways but that comes with about 2-5 years living together. I've said it before, east marrying west is like two rivers coming together; it's turbulent in spots but settles downstream if you can hang on for the ride. But, YMMV.

 

The "I am simple" often makes me smile to see. It is equally used and somewhat meaningless since I tend to see it as them saying they are more simple than other ladies; ergo, they are just tell you they compare and judge others without really thinking along those lines. For me, it depends on well balanced it is to intuition and common sense but a smoke screen eventually disperses. Again, time together will reveal that.

 

I personally don't subscribe to the whole 'stay true to your own culture' think and making the relationship into a statistical game of who compromised more or less. If you worry about such things, you'll never find the time to stop putting requirements a relationship. Let the relationship evolve along whatever lines it will, otherwise there is nothing natural going on; it's all a show of face and statistics. The problem may be that only one side is trying to be natural and the other side is full of masks. Again, time together will reveal that.

 

Predatory chinese and many who seek americans. I think that is true and hear that from expats as well. I honestly think americans/america are not really the best match for chinese. I think they are finding that out over time and Europeans are maybe better. But I definitely agree that the social pressure of marriage, child, divorce, age, blood, all make is almost dire for a chinese lady to find a mate once divorced and if with a child it takes a sympathetic country like the US to not care about such issues. But, I think they know that too... ergo, cultural manipulation is apt.

[Guest ExChinaExpat]

It's quite interesting to hear about others personal observations and experiences. I agree with David that the traditional Chinese woman, and Westernized Chinese woman can equally manipulate a man. Hell, we men will do or say just about anything to get some of that. But, that's another story entirely. Shanghai women for example have the reputation of being selfish, money focused manipulators. They are typically more Westernized, mainly because of their geographic location. Shanghai is a big city, with lots of foreigners and partying going on. You will find more English speakers there, as in most of the major cities of China.

 

I am very curious about some of the commonly used words and phrases used by Chinese women who are seeking a partner. I've mentioned a few, but I think they bear repeating, as they are often overlooked:

 

-Simple Chinese Woman

-No games

-Seeking marriage only

-Traditional Chinese woman

-Serious minded

-I'm sorry, but I don't speak English

-Will you teach me English?

-Are you looking for a young girl?

 

I'm sure there are many more commonly used words and phrases that can speak volumes of truth when they are more closely examined. At the same time, it's equally important to let things progress naturally as David suggested. Still, I think it's very important to realize what we as Western men are getting ourselves into. Relationships can be very rewarding, but also laden with a myriad of minefields. Experience plays a big role when considering any relationship. I remember my first experience with China, and Chinese women, gave me a sort of "kid in a candy store feeling." When you look at what's available in the US, and then turn to China, the differences are quite intense. Maybe some of us are willing to admit that it would be difficult if not impossible to find an equally beautiful, sexy woman in America who would even take a second look at us.

 

I am a little shocked sometimes about how a Chinese woman will begin talking about marriage with a man she's never met. When compared with the US, the "M" word and "L" word are often avoided until you know someone very well. I've wondered whether Chinese women and men begin talking about love and marriage when they are first dating. So, to find out, I began to ask several Chinese couples about how things progressed in their relationship. Okay Don, it's not a scientific sampling, not average, not typical, but out of the seven or eight people I asked, all said that marriage and love were not mentioned for a long time during the evolution of their relationship.

 

I think men should be very cautious before they consider becoming involved with someone who wants to evolve a relationship at light speed. It's very difficult to get to know someone, and when you consider the logistics and miles of separation between the Western man and Chinese woman, they are limited to rare face to face visits. To supplement, they resort to telephone calls, webcam, and email. That's the limitation. It's very hard to get to know someone after one or two visits. The woman and man are on their best behavior, and a little blinded by the excitement.

[bullmastiff]

There are many who come to this forum crying out that they have been scammed

 

They should blame this to themselves

They don't even know her and her family well nor they want to learn chinese culture and language

But a speedy K visa comes handy

Only needs to prove two visits in past 2 yrs ???

Min expense and high libido so forgetting the common sense reality despite of plenty of warning along the way

Se la vie ! They export many goods to USA and sure they also export many wives

Most are good people but a few are not