U.S. or China

[GDBILL]

One (possible) way to be 'employed' in China is to be the American manager of a Chinese/American (family) company.... been a couple of years since we explored that, but at the time, the basic formula was this: Incorporate (Ltd.) in HK, set up the business there, once legit, allowing for a nearly seamless entry into the mainland, particularly Guangdong. Issues of bringing capital (USD) into HK were not that hard, if it was 'family' money. The Chinese family (majority stock holders) had discretion in hiring the manager, and it would pass muster to hire an American if the business required trade between the two countries...

 

It may have changed since, but that was a conceivable way to get your foot in the door, and actually have some control over your business destiny as an American in China----at least at that time..

 

A couple of issues with that:

 

1. Minimum capital requirements.

2. Taxation exposure.

 

All in all not a bad idea if the business is legit. If set up just to allow visa facilities, not an overall economical or risk-free plan.

[GDBILL]

#9. Excellent analysis. I might add a word or two about racism. Although people will be nice to you, there are certain things that they just don't let you do because you are not Chinese. Try obtaining life or health insurance or obtaining credit from a bank.

 

 

I was able to get health insurance through my school, but it didn't amount to much. Anyone would be foolish not to consider traveler's insurance in their budget. We used liaison international

 

http://www.sevencorners.com/insuranceplans/travelmedical/

 

I was able to get a credit card from Citic bank. I do generally agree though with your point 9. Foreigners are generally not accepted as equals within Chinese society, at least not where we lived. Thankfully though, my wife's family did accept me as an equal part of their family - which to me was the most important status to achieve.

 

Travel insurance is good, but it is of limited use when your residence is in China. Using US as my country of residence would only allow the travel insurance to cover brief stays of limited periods in China.

 

Local medical insurance is pretty much useless -- even for locals and I have good coverage through my stateside insurer & company insurance. It's just the principal of the thing.

 

I'm sure you didn't just waltz into CITIC and say, "Gee, can I have a credit card?" and they said yes. There has to be more behind it. The only way they'd approve is if you had property, your employer went to bat for you, you applied jointly with your spouse or you had significant assets as security in CITIC Bank.

[Kyle]

#9. Excellent analysis. I might add a word or two about racism. Although people will be nice to you, there are certain things that they just don't let you do because you are not Chinese. Try obtaining life or health insurance or obtaining credit from a bank.

 

 

I was able to get health insurance through my school, but it didn't amount to much. Anyone would be foolish not to consider traveler's insurance in their budget. We used liaison international

 

http://www.sevencorners.com/insuranceplans/travelmedical/

 

I was able to get a credit card from Citic bank. I do generally agree though with your point 9. Foreigners are generally not accepted as equals within Chinese society, at least not where we lived. Thankfully though, my wife's family did accept me as an equal part of their family - which to me was the most important status to achieve.

 

Was your wife able to be covered on the traveler's insurance? I had thought that that type of insurance only covered people who are outside their home country.

 

No, she wasn't covered under it. She didn't need it, because she had pretty good coverage though through her employer. I had it for the entire time I was in China (almost 6 years) and it really came through for me. Seven corners covered almost 6000 USD in medical bills. I had a 250 dollar deductible.

[knloregon]

1. Minimum capital requirements.

2. Taxation exposure. -----

 

At the time, HK didn't have minimum capital requirements---only the mainland had that provision. (would be surprised if HK has added that, but who knows?) And once the business (retail) was legit in HK, and had a proven track record, you could transfer to the mainland without the minimum capital requirements.

 

Bill, not sure what you mean by taxation exposure.....

[GDBILL]

1. Minimum capital requirements.

2. Taxation exposure. -----

 

At the time, HK didn't have minimum capital requirements---only the mainland had that provision. (would be surprised if HK has added that, but who knows?) And once the business (retail) was legit in HK, and had a proven track record, you could transfer to the mainland without the minimum capital requirements.

 

Bill, not sure what you mean by taxation exposure.....

 

Unless they have changed the laws again, even HK companies on the Mainland have a minimum PRC tax burden. They also have minimum capital requirements if the company is to be registered with the tax authorities and the Ministry of Industry -- which they must be if they need visa facilities for their staff.

 

Where HK companies flourish -- regarding visas -- is when their expat staff is from HK in which case they do not need visas per se.

[Guest Do or die]

#9. Excellent analysis. I might add a word or two about racism. Although people will be nice to you, there are certain things that they just don't let you do because you are not Chinese. Try obtaining life or health insurance or obtaining credit from a bank.

 

 

I was able to get health insurance through my school, but it didn't amount to much. Anyone would be foolish not to consider traveler's insurance in their budget. We used liaison international

 

http://www.sevencorners.com/insuranceplans/travelmedical/

 

I was able to get a credit card from Citic bank. I do generally agree though with your point 9. Foreigners are generally not accepted as equals within Chinese society, at least not where we lived. Thankfully though, my wife's family did accept me as an equal part of their family - which to me was the most important status to achieve.

 

Was your wife able to be covered on the traveler's insurance? I had thought that that type of insurance only covered people who are outside their home country.

 

No, she wasn't covered under it. She didn't need it, because she had pretty good coverage though through her employer. I had it for the entire time I was in China (almost 6 years) and it really came through for me. Seven corners covered almost 6000 USD in medical bills. I had a 250 dollar deductible.

 

so you can have travelers medical coverage even if you live there for years ?

[rogerluli]

We will be living half the year...mid-April to mid-October in the US when we retire in 3 years...and the other half in Hainan and Hunan...

[knloregon]

"...Unless they have changed the laws again, even HK companies on the Mainland have a minimum PRC tax burden. They also have minimum capital requirements if the company is to be registered with the tax authorities and the Ministry of Industry -- which they must be if they need visa facilities for their staff.

 

Where HK companies flourish -- regarding visas -- is when their expat staff is from HK in which case they do not need visas per se..."

 

---- Always expected the tax burden, if establishing in HK, but not sure about your other points. Financial professionals which I retained on both sides of the border (HK and GZ) seemed to be in agreement that once a business was up and running in HK----and could prove it to PRC regulators---was then exempt from capitol requirements when it established hard (on the ground) enterprises in PRC. Managers of small entities (who happen to be the spouses of PRC citizens) were not subject to Gov. scrutiny, according to the PRC professional-----but that was three years ago..

[GDBILL]

"...Unless they have changed the laws again, even HK companies on the Mainland have a minimum PRC tax burden. They also have minimum capital requirements if the company is to be registered with the tax authorities and the Ministry of Industry -- which they must be if they need visa facilities for their staff.

 

Where HK companies flourish -- regarding visas -- is when their expat staff is from HK in which case they do not need visas per se..."

 

---- Always expected the tax burden, if establishing in HK, but not sure about your other points. Financial professionals which I retained on both sides of the border (HK and GZ) seemed to be in agreement that once a business was up and running in HK----and could prove it to PRC regulators---was then exempt from capitol requirements when it established hard (on the ground) enterprises in PRC. Managers of small entities (who happen to be the spouses of PRC citizens) were not subject to Gov. scrutiny, according to the PRC professional-----but that was three years ago..

 

They gave you bum advice.

 

HK enterprises that wish to either 1) be eligible for visa considerations and / or 2) issue fa piaos must be registered also with the Ministry of Industry & Commerce and the taxation authorities. They have to have minimum paid-up capital.

 

The expat who is married to a Chinese national in no, way, shape or form can run a business legally (i.e. your small enterprises) without a work permit / work visa. There are minimum capital requirements and also additional industry specific requirements before the labor bureau will allow the enterprise eligible for visa considerations.

[bla]

Here are the pros and cons to living in China, as I see it. I hope others will contribute their thoughts.

 

Pros

 

1.) China is lively in a way that America has not been for many decades. You can actually walk down a Chinese street and see -- gasp -- people.

 

2.) Cost of living can be quite low compared to the United States. Especially good if you have a steady source of income from the U.S., such as a pension or Social Security.

 

3.) Jobs are readily available for Americans, if you are interested in teaching English.

 

4.) Your spouse will be in her/his home environment and you can enjoy the benefits of the close family ties that Chinese people tend to have. (Especially useful if you happen to have a young child.)

 

5.) Can be an appealing place for someone who enjoys the international life, learning new languages, being noticed for being different.

 

Cons

 

1.) Cost of living is not so low if you plan to buy a home.

 

2.) With the "liveliness" of China comes a loss of the private, "live and let live" type of life you can expect in the west. Everyone is into everyone else's business. And life is a complicated, sometimes tiresome web of who's looking down on whom, who has more money than whom, who's gaining face, who's losing face, who has "guanxi," who's high-class and who's low-class.

 

3.) Friendship is also a bit different. Hanging out with buddies on equal terms is less common. Friends need to be useful, and if someone befriends you, you can bet they are looking for ways in which you can be useful. If they find that you aren't, you may find that they stop coming around.

 

4.) Teaching English does not pay all that well. It is possible to make a decent income, but you may need to work hard building up a base of private students or get an additional degree in order to qualify for the top-flight jobs.

 

5.) Health care is an issue. Better have some cash savings just in case. Don't count on any hospital saying, "Let's save this guy's life first, we'll sort out payment issues later!" You may be able to buy insurance on the private market, but in an emergency, it may not do you much good.

 

6.) No one is going to set up a 401k for you in China, let alone give you matching funds, so you have to be very mindful of saving for your own retirement.

 

7.) By the way, while in China, you are most likely not paying into U.S. Social Security. Years you don't pay in bring down your overall average earnings, thus lowering your eventual check. (You can, however, pay in from China if you work for an American company or are self-employed.)

 

8.) China still does not "welcome" foreign spouses from a visa perspective. You cannot expect any permanency unless you get one of the relatively rare "green cards." Otherwise, you are on a year-to-year basis, always with the possibility that you will be kicked out of the country due to policy changes or whatever other reason. You will also never be eligible for any of China's social welfare programs, such as pensions. Not that China is rich in social welfare, but just sayin'.

 

9.) You will never, ever fit into Chinese society. It doesn't matter how long you stay, how well you speak Chinese, how successful you become. You will always be an outsider and be thought of as kind of cartoonish. Your opinions and ways of doing things will never be considered up to par, since they aren't Chinese.

(Think about how this contrasts with the United States, where foreigners can stay permanently, get the same jobs as Americans, enjoy the same rights, get the same benefits at work and from the government.)

 

10.) China's pollution may be harmful to your health, as may be the traffic.

 

It depends where you want to live. In big cities like Beijing, Shanghai are just as expensive as in the U.S, maybe even more expensive.

 

You won't get as much respect as before since China is getting more international.

[Guest GunSlinger]

NO!

I would consider somewhere in the middle like Switzerland.

It would be a lot easier to make trips to China and America, after 13 hours in an airplane I'm ready to choke somebody, preferably one of those not so good lookin, think their shit don't stink Continental airline attendants, I've gotten the same ones on every flight to China I've taken.