And another one bites the dust ...

[GDBILL]

In my time here not much I haven't seen. Today was another of those days that make you wonder just WTF is wrong with some people.

 

Our neighbor has a kid in high school and they pay the kid's high school English teacher, an American, $20 an hour to give the kid remedial English classes after school. So, this guy apparently has run out of passport pages and makes the comment to the kid's parents adding that he is just too busy to make it to the US Consulate during normal working hours to get pages added.

 

So, our neighbor, the sap that he is, says he has a friend who maybe can help him get pages added outside of normal business hours. The neighbor calls me and asks if my wife can give the guy a hand to get his pages added. Neighborly as I am, I asl my wife since she is in Beijing this month and she takes the passport into the Embassy this morning to have people in ACS add some pages.

 

Problem is that prior to any transaction with a passport, a name check must be done. Bingo! Passport had been revoked. Past due child support. Any arrears over $2500 automatically triggers passport denial and possible revocation.

 

But wife tells me that it must be much more serious than simply owing child support. Generally, she says, when the passport shows up as revoked they are told to cancel passport and return it to bearer. This time the instructions were to retain passport and forward to Department via legal attache. That generally means there are also some fairly serious warrants outstanding and they're retaining the passport as evidence or as part of an ongoing investigation.

 

We'll be seeing this guy in the news soon.

 

Shouldn't be surprised, I guess.

[shenzhen]

In my time here not much I haven't seen. Today was another of those days that make you wonder just WTF is wrong with some people.

 

Our neighbor has a kid in high school and they pay the kid's high school English teacher, an American, $20 an hour to give the kid remedial English classes after school. So, this guy apparently has run out of passport pages and makes the comment to the kid's parents adding that he is just too busy to make it to the US Consulate during normal working hours to get pages added.

 

So, our neighbor, the sap that he is, says he has a friend who maybe can help him get pages added outside of normal business hours. The neighbor calls me and asks if my wife can give the guy a hand to get his pages added. Neighborly as I am, I asl my wife since she is in Beijing this month and she takes the passport into the Embassy this morning to have people in ACS add some pages.

 

Problem is that prior to any transaction with a passport, a name check must be done. Bingo! Passport had been revoked. Past due child support. Any arrears over $2500 automatically triggers passport denial and possible revocation.

 

But wife tells me that it must be much more serious than simply owing child support. Generally, she says, when the passport shows up as revoked they are told to cancel passport and return it to bearer. This time the instructions were to retain passport and forward to Department via legal attache. That generally means there are also some fairly serious warrants outstanding and they're retaining the passport as evidence or as part of an ongoing investigation.

 

We'll be seeing this guy in the news soon.

 

Shouldn't be surprised, I guess.

I guess he thought if someone added the pages for him they would not do a name check ...

[griz326]

No where to run...no where to hide. What is the world coming to?

[GDBILL]

In my time here not much I haven't seen. Today was another of those days that make you wonder just WTF is wrong with some people.

 

Our neighbor has a kid in high school and they pay the kid's high school English teacher, an American, $20 an hour to give the kid remedial English classes after school. So, this guy apparently has run out of passport pages and makes the comment to the kid's parents adding that he is just too busy to make it to the US Consulate during normal working hours to get pages added.

 

So, our neighbor, the sap that he is, says he has a friend who maybe can help him get pages added outside of normal business hours. The neighbor calls me and asks if my wife can give the guy a hand to get his pages added. Neighborly as I am, I asl my wife since she is in Beijing this month and she takes the passport into the Embassy this morning to have people in ACS add some pages.

 

Problem is that prior to any transaction with a passport, a name check must be done. Bingo! Passport had been revoked. Past due child support. Any arrears over $2500 automatically triggers passport denial and possible revocation.

 

But wife tells me that it must be much more serious than simply owing child support. Generally, she says, when the passport shows up as revoked they are told to cancel passport and return it to bearer. This time the instructions were to retain passport and forward to Department via legal attache. That generally means there are also some fairly serious warrants outstanding and they're retaining the passport as evidence or as part of an ongoing investigation.

 

We'll be seeing this guy in the news soon.

 

Shouldn't be surprised, I guess.

I guess he thought if someone added the pages for him they would not do a name check ...

 

Could be. I guess I'll find out after work when I get home just what his reaction is.

 

It used to be they wouldn't do a name check on adding pages, but now the consulates have instructions to do a name check for everything.

 

What kind of surprised me was that for $2500 in back child support they can nuke a passport, too.

[shenzhen]

I guess he thought if someone added the pages for him they would not do a name check ...

 

Could be. I guess I'll find out after work when I get home just what his reaction is.

 

It used to be they wouldn't do a name check on adding pages, but now the consulates have instructions to do a name check for everything.

 

What kind of surprised me was that for $2500 in back child support they can nuke a passport, too.

Having been through a divorce in the USA (with children/child support/custody issues) it does not surprise me at all (either that they do it or that the dollar limit is so low). In fact, while I am not trying to defend this guy, it would not surprise me if the back child support amount is only "alleged to be owed" meaning the ex-spouse only has to file a claim for back child support not that it has been proven the person in actually in arrears.

[C4Racer]

But wife tells me that it must be much more serious than simply owing child support. Generally, she says, when the passport shows up as revoked they are told to cancel passport and return it to bearer. This time the instructions were to retain passport and forward to Department via legal attache. That generally means there are also some fairly serious warrants outstanding and they're retaining the passport as evidence or as part of an ongoing investigation.

 

We'll be seeing this guy in the news soon.

 

Shouldn't be surprised, I guess.

 

Yes, this depends very much on reason for revocation. You don't see much information on Bejing Embassy web site. Just how to apply. However, I have found information on another Embassy's web site that shows all it takes is an arrears child support for them to retain your passport.

 

http://libreville.usembassy.gov/passports.html

Q: If an applicant applies for a passport card using a passport book and owes child support, do we retain the passport book for both DS-11 and DS-82 applications?

A: Yes, until the applicant resolves the child support issues and we are notified of that by the Department of Health and Human Services. See 7 FAM 1387.

It states a section of the manual, so this is SOP for all embassies. So no. You won't be seeing him in the news. It is probably nothing more than owing child support.

Edited April 6, 2010 by C4Racer (see edit history)

[GDBILL]

I guess he thought if someone added the pages for him they would not do a name check ...

 

Could be. I guess I'll find out after work when I get home just what his reaction is.

 

It used to be they wouldn't do a name check on adding pages, but now the consulates have instructions to do a name check for everything.

 

What kind of surprised me was that for $2500 in back child support they can nuke a passport, too.

Having been through a divorce in the USA (with children/child support/custody issues) it does not surprise me at all (either that they do it or that the dollar limit is so low). In fact, while I am not trying to defend this guy, it would not surprise me if the back child support amount is only "alleged to be owed" meaning the ex-spouse only has to file a claim for back child support not that it has been proven the person in actually in arrears.

 

 

The state cannot certify to the Department of Human Services that over $2500 is owed unless there is a child support order issued by a judge. That requires a hearing, doesn't it?

[GDBILL]

But wife tells me that it must be much more serious than simply owing child support. Generally, she says, when the passport shows up as revoked they are told to cancel passport and return it to bearer. This time the instructions were to retain passport and forward to Department via legal attache. That generally means there are also some fairly serious warrants outstanding and they're retaining the passport as evidence or as part of an ongoing investigation.

 

We'll be seeing this guy in the news soon.

 

Shouldn't be surprised, I guess.

 

Yes, this depends very much on reason for revocation. You don't see much information on Bejing Embassy web site. Just how to apply. However, I have found information on another Embassy's web site that shows all it takes is an arrears child support for them to retain your passport.

 

http://libreville.usembassy.gov/passports.html

Q: If an applicant applies for a passport card using a passport book and owes child support, do we retain the passport book for both DS-11 and DS-82 applications?

A: Yes, until the applicant resolves the child support issues and we are notified of that by the Department of Health and Human Services. See 7 FAM 1387.

It states a section of the manual, so this is SOP for all embassies. So no. You won't be seeing him in the news. It is probably nothing more than owing child support.

 

Actually, a passport cannot be revoked or denied on the basis of child support arrears unless certified by the state to the Department of Health & Human Services that the individual is in arrears of at least $2500.

 

Also, according to my wife, just because one is in the passport denial list does not mean that an otherwise valid passport is revoked since that decision has to be made in Washington, D.C.

 

Also, when a passport is revoked, the SOP is to indicate that the passport is revoked, mutilate the passport and return it to the bearer. It is not normal to retain the cancelled passport passport.

 

The link you provide is talking about "retaining" a passport in a child support case prior to obtaining the order from Washington to revoke said passport. The passport is retained pending further instructions depending on what the name check data indicates.

 

According to my wife, the name check returned clear indication that the passport was revoked because of the passport denial program (child support). The letter issued by the consulate also states the passport was revoked and that in order to be eligible for further passport services his name must be removed by the Department of H & HS.

 

She has also stated that it is not normal for a revoked passport to be retained and subsequently forwarded to the legal attache (i.e. FBI agent) in purely child support matters. Virtually the only time the FBI asks for the passport is if it is to be used as evidence in a criminal proescution or to assist an ongoing investigation.

 

She later also got an e-mail and a phone call from the Legat. It is much more than a guy who owes child support. We will be reading about this in the news.

 

About par for the course with some of the crud they have teaching in China, sadly.

[weiaijiayou]

Hopefully the reason isn't something that would have put his students in danger...

[knloregon]

"...About par for the course with some of the crud they have teaching in China, sadly..."

 

I assume that regardless of your assumptions, the basic facts surrounding the retention of the passport has been passed on by you to the school where he teaches, and to the parents of the boy he tutors.

 

Certainly, I would agree with you to that extent GDB, whatever it is, its serious enough to take those precautions.

 

Sure you will keep us posted as the story develops.

[tsap seui]

Well. it sure seems like the government is serious about cracking down on deadbeat dads...as they damn well should.

 

Im the Washington, DC area they used to ploys they sent out to deadbeat dads to get them to go to a central location to collect prize winnings, etc....they would get 25 or more of them at a pop. For once I cheered the government on.

 

It's good to see that they can run, but they can't hide.

 

tsap seui

[GDBILL]

Well. it sure seems like the government is serious about cracking down on deadbeat dads...as they damn well should.

 

Im the Washington, DC area they used to ploys they sent out to deadbeat dads to get them to go to a central location to collect prize winnings, etc....they would get 25 or more of them at a pop. For once I cheered the government on.

 

It's good to see that they can run, but they can't hide.

 

tsap seui

 

 

I met a guy in Guangzhou about ten years ago sort of in the same situation in, but he owed over $250k. Still, even then I thought it a little strange that they could deny a passport over a debt. However, when I checked I found that if the amount was something like $10k or over they could.

 

Now the threshold has been lowered to $2500. Looks like they're serious about making people pay up.

 

The only problem I see is that this could possibly be the beginning of a long slide down the slippery sloap to passport denial over unpaid parking tickets or library fines for overdue books.

[GDBILL]

"...About par for the course with some of the crud they have teaching in China, sadly..."

 

I assume that regardless of your assumptions, the basic facts surrounding the retention of the passport has been passed on by you to the school where he teaches, and to the parents of the boy he tutors.

 

Certainly, I would agree with you to that extent GDB, whatever it is, its serious enough to take those precautions.

 

Sure you will keep us posted as the story develops.

 

 

Don't assume too much. Not all of us are uninformed, rumor-mongering zealots with overactive imaginations and too much free time on their hands who don't know 1) the definition of privacy, 2) definition of fair play (i.e. innocent until proven guilty) and 3) slander.

 

If Department of State policy is such that even their own staff cannot release this information to third parties -- even to Chinese law enforcement unless actual extradition is requested -- then why would I be dropping a dime on this guy to his employer(s) because he 1) owes child support and 2) is wanted for some as yet unknown crime?

 

At best I would only inform the PSB that there is an illegal alien here. But after talking with the guy late last night, I am not even inclined to do that.

[knloregon]

" .... Don't assume too much. Not all of us are uninformed, rumor-mongering zealots with overactive imaginations and too much free time on their hands who don't know 1) the definition of privacy, 2) definition of fair play (i.e. innocent until proven guilty) and 3) slander...."

 

Hey Bill ~ !

 

You're the Guy way out there posting the dark comments ~ REREAD YOUR PREVIOUS POSTS ~ " About par for the course with some of the crud they have teaching in China, sadly."

 

I (very carefully) suggested that you only report exactly what you DO know factually---that his passport has been confiscated. I assume that protects the children if necessary, in that it triggers a 'sit down" with his employer to explain why that might have happened.

 

".. and 3) slander...." And here's some news Bill: if its factual, its not slander. you may want to consider deleting those parts of your previous posts which are pure conjecture.

[chengdu4me]

The bottom line is this...if you have Child Support issues, you need to deal with them before hopping a plane to live in a foreign country. Whether you are going for very innocent reasons or are hiding, BIG Brother will catch up with you.

 

Personally, I support this effort to get proper support for children, but I also think that there is another way to do rather than just hamstring someone once they have left the country.

 

In this guys case, he can't stay and he can't leave without just handing himself over to the Consulate for removal and arrest when he arrives back at a POE.