I'll pray for you

[TLB]

First of all, I want to give kudos and gratitude to all posters on this topic: in the USA, we often stay away from discussing politics and religion because we all think we're right and we take our points of view very seriously on these issues. The posters so far have represented a diversity of opinions and have done so with great tact and mutual respect, which is wonderful.

 

As for the OP's issues, it sounds like there is pressure felt to go to church and the OP is uncomfortable with that; whether that pressure is really coming from the friends or from something the OP is imagining is not for me to say. It is true that many Christians (as well as those of some other major religions) feel that part of their worship is to bring more people into their church; whether they do that for the glory of God or to make themselves feel more holy is also not for me to say.

 

If I were in the OP's shoes, which I'm not (and I don't even know what the shoes would feel like because this is based on one posting), I'd tell the friends "when you ask me to church over and over, I feel like our friendship is dependent on my becoming a Christian. Is that the truth?" People in all kinds of groups (religious, political) are great at making "us versus them" realities for themselves (that's what gets us wars), and you're either in the group or you're one of "them." Asking them something like this directly might make them aware that they're making you uncomfortable, and it might have an affect on their behavior.

 

I'd also ask this of these friends: "If I decide I'd rather become a Buddhist than a Christian, can I invite you to my temple and give you some Sutras to read and would you read them?"

 

There are hypocrites inside churches and outside of them, and wonderful and spiritually wise folks inside churches and outside of them as well, in my experience. And I would never speak for God, but in my own heart I have doubts that God wants you to start going to church just to satisfy your friends' needs.

 

All just the finite and limited point of view of one man, subject to change at any moment.

[Q&Q]

Thanks for all the replies! I learned a lot and enjoy all the postings from all different perspectives.

 

I'd love to share my thoughts with you guys. But right now, I'd like to express my gratitude to all of you first. I'll be back later when I have time. My son's coming home from college for spring break tonight. MY problems will be put on hold for a little while

[david_dawei]

David, I didn't know you were once a Pharisee...

Yes, the worse kind... who after 10 years began to question the church doctrine and they had no answers. I guess I read too much St. Augustine and Martin Luther and John Calvin... Besides them, the only more contemporaries who moved me the most were C.S. Lewis and Francis Schaeffer because of their logic.

 

I lived in a hurricane and experienced an earthquake,and i tell you what,nature can be a bitch.

nature is the most natural of processes of the universe... We share the same processes. That's the unified idea which the east holds which I tend to agree with. If your complaining about nature, I guess I can see why you label humans as evil... just not my thought process, but I get it.

[david_dawei]

Haven't see the movie yet...

 

but I was caught up in very conservative christian circles for too many years to see the problems they impose on mankind.

 

Some like to preach "evil" and keep people under their message of control. For a nation which espouses so much freedom, they are willing to imprison people emotionally (with guilt) and the spiritually (with worship).

 

I'll have no part of that anymore. There is no reason why man is evil but the environment, nature, a rock, tree, flower, food, animals, etc are not. Man is the smallest speck of the universe; time to accept that. And in the midst of that, give thanks concerning our small part.

 

We get caught up in believing life is about us... Life is for all things. Just a man's opinion; less than a dust speck among the universe.

 

There is a misconception that Christians are perfect. Maybe that's why it seems the news media loves to point out a Christian with their mistakes.

 

The fact is that a Christian will be the first to tell you that they aren't perfect. That, in essence, is why they became a Christian in the first place. My guilt for the things I did in my energetic youthful past, were reasons why I became a Christian. No, a church didn't guilt me, my conscience did. My conscience did because I started to believe in something bigger than myself.

 

Churches aren't perfect either. Why? Because they are made up of imperfect people.

 

Society is quick to use a church as a scapegoat for their (more times than not real reason) unwillingness to trade their desires for God's desires. Again, this is just my opinion. This, speaking from personal experience, was exactly why it too me so long to become a Christian.

 

When I read the teachings of Jesus, I see a message of love and forgiveness - not one of guilt. In fact, the Bible states repetitively that we no longer have to feel guilty because we've been forgiven. Perhaps it does state it repetitively because truthfully, although it is not difficult for God to forgive us, it is often difficult for us to forgive ourselves - which is a separate issue entirely.

 

I've never had a church family guilt me into anything. I'm sorry, David, that you had that experience.

 

Although I am saddened by David's past experience and to be honest, if his account is accurate (and I'm not doubting his account), I can understand his feelings however, to use the same brush to paint every church family well that's not really fair. As I type that, I do acknowledge David's feelings as hurt feelings can sometimes lead to blanket assumptions - I know it has for myself. I also respect your beliefs David. You need to know that.

 

As far as praying is concerned. I've never felt pressure to return a favor. I guess I simply feel honored that someone trusts me enough to ask for my prayers (that someone values me enough). Prayer is the lifeblood of a Christian, which is why we are instructed to pray without ceasing - something I am not perfect at.

 

It is a very humbling thing to hear someone is praying for you. To know you are loved enough by someone else for them to pray on your behalf, is one of the greatest examples (and actions) of love someone could express.

 

If it is possible, when someone asks for me to pray for them, I typically, like to stop what I'm doing and pray with them. Again, there have been times when someone asked me to pray for them and "oppps" it slipped my mind and I forgot to do so (which is why I now try to do it immediately). My forgetfulness wasn't intentional, I'm just human and I make mistakes. Praying for someone is a wonderful aspect of serving that person. Should your service stop there? I don't think so but I do think your service toward another person should always start there. I as a Christian have faith that I've been shown grace for some of the crummy things I used to do (and things I still struggle with but try not to do). It's kind of like I stole a car and the owner of the car said, I'm not pressing charges. Well, I feel a deep sense of relief and gratitude. This gratitude easily motivates me to pray for others when I'm asked, to help serve others when needed, etc.

 

Again, I'm not perfect in implementing what I've written above. I just do the best I can.

I'm not exactly sure at first how to respond expect everything you say is very christian-like... but I kinda mean it as a compliment, in an naive way.

 

The misconception is that christians think they are made perfect by believing. It's partly true, but more in a Zen way; believing the concept makes one realize it was true from the beginning; not just at some point of acceptance. The ONEness of all things has always been true; but we will often think in terms of suddenly believing that and accepting that; kind of explained as enlightenment or salvation; but it has always been true, whether we believe or accept it. Our natures lost a connection to nature and when we can re-connect to that, we are just coming back home in a sense. This gets too deep too quickly.

 

Jesus message on it's own is valuable; but there is too much editorializing and twisting of meanings. His meaning was simple enough. But one doesn't need forgiveness to be rid of guilt; one just needs a society which does not manipulate with morality and guilt. There is not guilt in living. That is a gift itself. why add to that. The church choose to add a lot to control the following; how else can one control their message and followers. Be really practical and understand that in many situations, even China understands that.

 

There is no reason to be sorry and saddened... These issues are more rational than emotional in origin; but somehow they turn emotional. yet we don't feel emotional about the rest of the universe. Does anyone every thing to preach (or just talk) to the trees or grass or flowers or rocks? That is why I study "energetic" connections. Our connections to the universe are not emotional but by energy. You would find that you body "wakes" up internally, not just emotionally.

 

Ever watch a baby breath and react to the environment? We lose all that for no good reason other than society. But you can establish it again. Imagine feeling a connection back to anything around you, in the sense that you can feel a person's emotion or a tree's energy.

 

I do think praying has some part in life... but it's energy passing.

[chilton747]

Besides them, the only more contemporaries who moved me the most were C.S. Lewis and Francis Schaeffer because of their logic.

 

 

C.S. Lewis' Mere Christianity is an awesome book.

[david_dawei]

Besides them, the only more contemporaries who moved me the most were C.S. Lewis and Francis Schaeffer because of their logic.

 

 

C.S. Lewis' Mere Christianity is an awesome book.

yes, a classic in some ways... if you like that, you should get his

God in the Dock