Socialist Legal System

[Stepbrow]

I like to follow political changes, reforms, and movements within China. My hope is that over time the political system will change for the better. I have been following the National Peoples Conference through China Daily, and I saw this announcement.

 

Today it is announced that the NPC is working on establishing a Socialist Legal System with "Chinese characteristics." Also, making the legal system more scientific and democratic. I am not sure what this means because sometimes the Chinese press and government use English words in ways that differ from the usual connotation.

 

I hope that the new system addresses the following issues:

1. Civil rights are established and protected by law.

2. Adequate compensation is made to land owners when property is condemned for developments.

3. Laws against cronyism, bribery, payoffs, elimination of special favors for friends and family of government and party officials will are enforced.

4. End State persecution of dissidents and religious groups.

 

Here is a link to the article: http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2010npc...ent_9563257.htm

[GDBILL]

I like to follow political changes, reforms, and movements within China. My hope is that over time the political system will change for the better.

 

Instead of trying to change China from afar, why not move here, and see how many people you can rally for your cause.

 

Probably a lot.

 

I've seen where the government is doing better than before, but still a ways to go.

Edited March 9, 2010 by GDBILL (see edit history)

[GDBILL]

I like to follow political changes, reforms, and movements within China. My hope is that over time the political system will change for the better. I have been following the National Peoples Conference through China Daily, and I saw this announcement.

 

Today it is announced that the NPC is working on establishing a Socialist Legal System with "Chinese characteristics." Also, making the legal system more scientific and democratic. I am not sure what this means because sometimes the Chinese press and government use English words in ways that differ from the usual connotation.

 

I hope that the new system addresses the following issues:

1. Civil rights are established and protected by law.

2. Adequate compensation is made to land owners when property is condemned for developments.

3. Laws against cronyism, bribery, payoffs, elimination of special favors for friends and family of government and party officials will are enforced.

4. End State persecution of dissidents and religious groups.

 

Here is a link to the article: http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2010npc...ent_9563257.htm

 

1. Already are. Just sometimes have a different definition of "civil rights" and "protected."

 

2. Already is. Define "adequate."

 

3. Already are. Selectively.

 

4. Already ended. Define "persecution," "dissident" and "religious group."

 

People need to realize that China will never have what people in the West think is an ideal system nor should they.

Edited March 9, 2010 by GDBILL (see edit history)

[Stepbrow]

I like to follow political changes, reforms, and movements within China. My hope is that over time the political system will change for the better. I have been following the National Peoples Conference through China Daily, and I saw this announcement.

 

Today it is announced that the NPC is working on establishing a Socialist Legal System with "Chinese characteristics." Also, making the legal system more scientific and democratic. I am not sure what this means because sometimes the Chinese press and government use English words in ways that differ from the usual connotation.

 

I hope that the new system addresses the following issues:

1. Civil rights are established and protected by law.

2. Adequate compensation is made to land owners when property is condemned for developments.

3. Laws against cronyism, bribery, payoffs, elimination of special favors for friends and family of government and party officials will are enforced.

4. End State persecution of dissidents and religious groups.

 

Here is a link to the article: http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2010npc...ent_9563257.htm

 

1. Already are. Just sometimes have a different definition of "civil rights" and "protected."

 

2. Already is. Define "adequate."

 

3. Already are. Selectively.

 

4. Already ended. Define "persecution," "dissident" and "religious group."

 

People need to realize that China will never have what people in the West think is an ideal system nor should they.

 

 

I agree that China will never have an ideal system. Obviously we don't either.

 

I think that as we observe China defining its system, we are watching history as it is happening. I think that China is trying to find a new way to govern. They are attempting to find ways to allow more citizen participation, to make government more transparent, and to make government more responsive to the needs of its citizens. That is my hope anyway.

 

As to the items you listed, I have tried to clarify them.

 

1. Regarding Civil Rights: The most recent example was from the Documentary "Tears of Sichuan Province." The parents were allowed to protest to a point, then they were told they would be arrested if more than three protested at one time. I guess you could classify this as freedom of assembly, and the right to protest and seek redress from the government. Last month Tan Zuoren was sentenced to 5 years in prison for attempting to investigate the tofu construction of the school buildings. The parents of those children just wanted justice and punishment for those officials who allowed the shoddy construction resulting in the death of their children.

 

LiuXiabao is a good example of a dissident who has been persecuted for freedom of speech. He authored the Charter 08. Fineart has written about him. Here is another reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liu_Xiaobo

 

2. When two parties agree on a transaction, then you can say the compensation is adequate. The confiscation of land in China for development has been going on for some time. The farmers displaced by the Three Gorges Dam is a prime example of many (not all the 2.3 million that were displaced) were unhappy with the settlement. Here is another example of what happened to Lin Zhengxu back in 2004: http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A...anguage=printer

3. You are right in that some prominent figures have been made examples of, but I have a friend in China who manages an office building. A large portion of this space is leased to the government. If the bribe is not paid when the lease is renewed, the official threatens to move to another building. I am told that this is "the China way." This isn't so?

4. Persecution: being harassed, jailed, and or tortured by the government. Examples are above: Tan Zuoren, Lin Zhengxu, and Liu Xiabao

 

Dissident: Someone who speaks out against, protest against, or in other ways objects to the policies or actions of the government.

 

Religious group: Falun Gong.

[ShaQuaNew]

 

1. Already are. Just sometimes have a different definition of "civil rights" and "protected."

 

2. Already is. Define "adequate."

 

3. Already are. Selectively.

 

4. Already ended. Define "persecution," "dissident" and "religious group."

 

People need to realize that China will never have what people in the West think is an ideal system nor should they.

 

Agreed Bill. Unfortunately some people draw too much from the never ending stories about China in the Western press. The best place for these people to learn about China is by talking to the citizens that live here. No, not the dissidents. Hell, you can find pissed off people everywhere. Also, for those who are truly interested in the people, government, and culture of China, be open to the big picture and the variety of perspectives.

[shenzhen]

I like to follow political changes, reforms, and movements within China. My hope is that over time the political system will change for the better. I have been following the National Peoples Conference through China Daily, and I saw this announcement.

 

Today it is announced that the NPC is working on establishing a Socialist Legal System with "Chinese characteristics." Also, making the legal system more scientific and democratic. I am not sure what this means because sometimes the Chinese press and government use English words in ways that differ from the usual connotation.

 

I hope that the new system addresses the following issues:

1. Civil rights are established and protected by law.

2. Adequate compensation is made to land owners when property is condemned for developments.

3. Laws against cronyism, bribery, payoffs, elimination of special favors for friends and family of government and party officials will are enforced.

4. End State persecution of dissidents and religious groups.

 

Here is a link to the article: http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2010npc...ent_9563257.htm

 

1. Already are. Just sometimes have a different definition of "civil rights" and "protected."

 

2. Already is. Define "adequate."

 

3. Already are. Selectively.

 

4. Already ended. Define "persecution," "dissident" and "religious group."

 

People need to realize that China will never have what people in the West think is an ideal system nor should they.

 

 

I agree that China will never have an ideal system. Obviously we don't either.

 

I think that as we observe China defining its system, we are watching history as it is happening. I think that China is trying to find a new way to govern. They are attempting to find ways to allow more citizen participation, to make government more transparent, and to make government more responsive to the needs of its citizens. That is my hope anyway.

 

As to the items you listed, I have tried to clarify them.

 

1. Regarding Civil Rights: The most recent example was from the Documentary "Tears of Sichuan Province." The parents were allowed to protest to a point, then they were told they would be arrested if more than three protested at one time. I guess you could classify this as freedom of assembly, and the right to protest and seek redress from the government. Last month Tan Zuoren was sentenced to 5 years in prison for attempting to investigate the tofu construction of the school buildings. The parents of those children just wanted justice and punishment for those officials who allowed the shoddy construction resulting in the death of their children.

 

LiuXiabao is a good example of a dissident who has been persecuted for freedom of speech. He authored the Charter 08. Fineart has written about him. Here is another reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liu_Xiaobo

 

2. When two parties agree on a transaction, then you can say the compensation is adequate. The confiscation of land in China for development has been going on for some time. The farmers displaced by the Three Gorges Dam is a prime example of many (not all the 2.3 million that were displaced) were unhappy with the settlement. Here is another example of what happened to Lin Zhengxu back in 2004: http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A...anguage=printer

3. You are right in that some prominent figures have been made examples of, but I have a friend in China who manages an office building. A large portion of this space is leased to the government. If the bribe is not paid when the lease is renewed, the official threatens to move to another building. I am told that this is "the China way." This isn't so?

4. Persecution: being harassed, jailed, and or tortured by the government. Examples are above: Tan Zuoren, Lin Zhengxu, and Liu Xiabao

 

Dissident: Someone who speaks out against, protest against, or in other ways objects to the policies or actions of the government.

 

Religious group: Falun Gong.

Send the list in to the CCP but realize, as Bill said, "China will never have what people in the West think is an ideal system" so what you think is important to lead a quality life may not be to them.

 

Sure China has dissidents such as LiuXiabao. However it you read about him and the remarks he has made I wonder in post 9/11 how far an American citizen would get making such remarks about the US government before he was "visted" a few times by people in a black sedan.

[GDBILL]

 

1. Already are. Just sometimes have a different definition of "civil rights" and "protected."

 

2. Already is. Define "adequate."

 

3. Already are. Selectively.

 

4. Already ended. Define "persecution," "dissident" and "religious group."

 

People need to realize that China will never have what people in the West think is an ideal system nor should they.

 

Agreed Bill. Unfortunately some people draw too much from the never ending stories about China in the Western press. The best place for these people to learn about China is by talking to the citizens that live here. No, not the dissidents. Hell, you can find pissed off people everywhere. Also, for those who are truly interested in the people, government, and culture of China, be open to the big picture and the variety of perspectives.

 

 

Holy shit! I'm worried, man ... you and I are starting to see eye to eye!

[GDBILL]

I like to follow political changes, reforms, and movements within China. My hope is that over time the political system will change for the better. I have been following the National Peoples Conference through China Daily, and I saw this announcement.

 

Today it is announced that the NPC is working on establishing a Socialist Legal System with "Chinese characteristics." Also, making the legal system more scientific and democratic. I am not sure what this means because sometimes the Chinese press and government use English words in ways that differ from the usual connotation.

 

I hope that the new system addresses the following issues:

1. Civil rights are established and protected by law.

2. Adequate compensation is made to land owners when property is condemned for developments.

3. Laws against cronyism, bribery, payoffs, elimination of special favors for friends and family of government and party officials will are enforced.

4. End State persecution of dissidents and religious groups.

 

Here is a link to the article: http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2010npc...ent_9563257.htm

 

1. Already are. Just sometimes have a different definition of "civil rights" and "protected."

 

2. Already is. Define "adequate."

 

3. Already are. Selectively.

 

4. Already ended. Define "persecution," "dissident" and "religious group."

 

People need to realize that China will never have what people in the West think is an ideal system nor should they.

 

 

I agree that China will never have an ideal system. Obviously we don't either.

 

I think that as we observe China defining its system, we are watching history as it is happening. I think that China is trying to find a new way to govern. They are attempting to find ways to allow more citizen participation, to make government more transparent, and to make government more responsive to the needs of its citizens. That is my hope anyway.

 

As to the items you listed, I have tried to clarify them.

 

1. Regarding Civil Rights: The most recent example was from the Documentary "Tears of Sichuan Province." The parents were allowed to protest to a point, then they were told they would be arrested if more than three protested at one time. I guess you could classify this as freedom of assembly, and the right to protest and seek redress from the government. Last month Tan Zuoren was sentenced to 5 years in prison for attempting to investigate the tofu construction of the school buildings. The parents of those children just wanted justice and punishment for those officials who allowed the shoddy construction resulting in the death of their children.

 

LiuXiabao is a good example of a dissident who has been persecuted for freedom of speech. He authored the Charter 08. Fineart has written about him. Here is another reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liu_Xiaobo

 

2. When two parties agree on a transaction, then you can say the compensation is adequate. The confiscation of land in China for development has been going on for some time. The farmers displaced by the Three Gorges Dam is a prime example of many (not all the 2.3 million that were displaced) were unhappy with the settlement. Here is another example of what happened to Lin Zhengxu back in 2004: http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A...anguage=printer

3. You are right in that some prominent figures have been made examples of, but I have a friend in China who manages an office building. A large portion of this space is leased to the government. If the bribe is not paid when the lease is renewed, the official threatens to move to another building. I am told that this is "the China way." This isn't so?

4. Persecution: being harassed, jailed, and or tortured by the government. Examples are above: Tan Zuoren, Lin Zhengxu, and Liu Xiabao

 

Dissident: Someone who speaks out against, protest against, or in other ways objects to the policies or actions of the government.

 

Religious group: Falun Gong.

 

First of all, don't go thinking I am disagreeing with you, please. It's just after all these years I start classifying things into three cubbyholes:

 

1. Things I agree with (or like);

2. Things I disagree with and think it's worth a fight to change;

3. Things I disagree with, but understand the other side's logic;

4. Things I disagree with, but not worth the effort to fight.

 

Now, back to the original list:

 

1. Civil rights: They define civil rights as being to eat, work, shit & sleep. So in their concept of "rights," they have all they need and then some.

 

It's unfortunate about shoddy construction that caused so many children to die. Protest marches are not going to change the status quo. In fact, the government is probably afraid that protest marches will snowball into another one of the many revolutions China has experienced in the past 5,000 years or more of its history. Now THAt would be bad -- another revolution driving China back into the Dark Ages. Also, I would think it difficult to blame the whole Chinese government for what political leaders in one province do. Believe it or not, the central government does not rule provincial governments with an iron fist.

 

2. Land compensation: Two parties do not always agree. I have seen this before in Guangzhou. There is a back-and-forth, but ultimately some people are greedy and demand more than what a property is really worth.

 

It's not the US where you can claim an extra million $ because the grass on your old farm was a little greener than on the new farm they give you in replacement.

 

3. Corruption: It's a problem. There are laws against it. The general consensus is that only those with no seniority and those in the highest levels get busted.

 

The good thing is that when high level public officials get busted they get the death penalty -- perhaps suspened and reduced to life. In the US a congresscritter gets busted and he gets a few months in a golf course.

 

4. a. Dissidents: The government sees them as a catalyst to revolution (see revolution, above). Besides, pissing up a rope tends to get you splattered in the face with piss.

 

4.b. Religious groups: I'm not a fan of any organized religion. I knew a lot of people in FLG. Most were in it for the form of communal exercise. The rest were in it as a cult. I knew people who would try to convinvce you that going to the doctor for a medical ailment was wrong and just let FLG cure you. They were psychos. Good riddance.

 

You can believe what you want (i.e. religion) in China. Just don't try and organize it.

 

 

=====

 

China has 1.3+ billion people. We have less than 1/3 that. Our system is screwed up. Imagine how screwed up our system would be if we had 3 times the population fighting over who can get an abortion and who can buy a gun. Giving democracy as we know it to China now would like dropping a nuclear bomb on them. Or like giving a car to a three-year-old.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

Now give me a minute while I quickly get into my asbestos suit.

[Stepbrow]

No problem Bill, and no offense taken. Your points were good, and I understand where you are coming from.

[GDBILL]

No problem Bill, and no offense taken. Your points were good, and I understand where you are coming from.

 

Hold on a second ...

 

It's not where I am comming from, but the way they see it. I'm just playing Devil's Advocate.

[weiaijiayou]

Good discussion. I would add one other general item that I believe makes many Americans' blood boil but that most Chinese are comfortable with: this is what Chinese call ÓÞÃñÕþ²ß -- a policy where, if some information is disruptive to social stability or otherwise gratuitously negative, it is not discussed or reported. Most Americans would obviously see this kind of policy as uniformly negative, even repressive. But if you talk to a Chinese person you'll probably find that they see it as a rather positive thing. And if you dwell on it for any length of time, you should also be able to see some of its benefits -- if not in America then at least given the circumstances and realities of China.

[SmilingAsia]

This is a little woman. I'm a native Chinese and I'm still in China. I don't care for politics as family commitment is more important to me.

Someone graduated from the same college as I did. He is a high official in my province. My folks in the village hate him to death as he robbed the people to bribe his higher leaders so he can climb up.

My classmate married the major of our county and he tried to murder my classmate so he didn't need a divorce which his political enemies can use it against him.

This is our government.

 

15 years ago, I was thinking China was learning capitalism so China will become maybe another America.

Well, there are signs China is becoming another Philippines.

Free market without the legal system of capitalism: incurably corrupt! 官商勾结腐败难治，百姓民不聊生 -- 菲律宾！

I have a former colleague who hired two Filipina domestic helpers and these two domestic helpers have bachelors degree.

Someone from my village has a college diploma and she is washing hair in a hair saloon for RMB700 per month. If she is offered HK$4000 monthly pay in Hong Kong to be a domestic helper, she would say yes!

 

不要告诉我中国是制造业大国！！！一个芭比娃娃，出厂价是1美元，在美国的沃尔玛卖9.9美元。 “制造”创造了1美元的价值，“产品设计，原料采购，订单处理，仓储运输，批发零售” 创造了 8.9美元的价值。

只有“制造”是在中国，“制造”是不需要大学生的，其他环节需要大学生，所以中国的大学生找不到工作，那不是孩子们的错, 是政府原先产业链定位错了，大学生买单！

而且中国越制造，西方国家越富裕，大学生越找不到工作！

 

嫁给美国佬，直线救国！。。。哈哈。。。直线救自己而已。。。呵呵。。。

Edited March 11, 2010 by SmilingAsia (see edit history)

[weiaijiayou]

This is a little woman. I'm a native Chinese and I'm still in China. I don't care for politics as family commitment is more important to me.

Someone graduated from the same college as I did. He is a high official in my province. My folks in the village hate him to death as he robbed the people to bribe his higher leaders so he can climb up.

My classmate married the major of our county and he tried to murder my classmate so he didn't need a divorce which his political enemies can use it against him.

This is our government.

 

15 years ago, I was thinking China was learning capitalism so China will become maybe another America.

Well, there are signs China is becoming another Philippines.

Free market without the legal system of capitalism: incurably corrupt! ¹ÙÉ̹´½á¸¯°ÜÄÑÖΣ¬°ÙÐÕÃñ²»ÁÄÉú -- ·ÆÂɱö£¡

I have a former colleague who hired two Filipina domestic helpers and these two domestic helpers have bachelors degree.

Someone from my village has a college diploma and she is washing hair in a hair saloon for RMB700 per month. If she is offered HK$4000 monthly pay in Hong Kong to be a domestic helper, she would say yes!

 

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[shenzhen]

This is a little woman. I'm a native Chinese and I'm still in China. I don't care for politics as family commitment is more important to me.

Someone graduated from the same college as I did. He is a high official in my province. My folks in the village hate him to death as he robbed the people to bribe his higher leaders so he can climb up.

My classmate married the major of our county and he tried to murder my classmate so he didn't need a divorce which his political enemies can use it against him.

This is our government.

 

15 years ago, I was thinking China was learning capitalism so China will become maybe another America.

Well, there are signs China is becoming another Philippines.

Free market without the legal system of capitalism: incurably corrupt! ¹ÙÉ̹´½á¸¯°ÜÄÑÖΣ¬°ÙÐÕÃñ²»ÁÄÉú -- ·ÆÂɱö£¡

I have a former colleague who hired two Filipina domestic helpers and these two domestic helpers have bachelors degree.

Someone from my village has a college diploma and she is washing hair in a hair saloon for RMB700 per month. If she is offered HK$4000 monthly pay in Hong Kong to be a domestic helper, she would say yes!

 

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[SmilingAsia]

这就不是经济发展的过程吗？中国的制造业像大米一样吸引我们西方老鼠，然后我们吃饱肚子才发现本地的猫也长大还有变俄。。。

中国引进了资本主义的市场化但没有相应的法制，所以变成大欺小，强欺弱，官商勾结，民营企业纷纷倒闭。中国即将变成菲律宾！它的女人要去别的国家做保姆！

泰国，它的男人想做女人，它的女人想做鸡！

 

家乐福在深圳欠一个大米供应商38万人民币，它扣清洁费等等费用，变成供应商要欠家乐福8000人民币！人家财大气粗，你怎么告它？你只有跳楼去！

家乐福敢不敢在美国做这种事？它只要连续欠3个供应商5000美元，供应商就可以到法院宣告它破产， 变卖它的资产还钱。

Edited March 11, 2010 by SmilingAsia (see edit history)