What are the red flags?

[Davidq]

I am involved with a Chinese woman and have gone to China to visit her 2 times now. We are now ready to go ahead with the Visa process. We are very much in love with each other.

 

I am looking for the red flags in the VIsa process. The reason I am asking this is because she is still married. I knew this after the first time I visited. I do believe her in her reasons for not getting the divorce certificate.

 

Her husband has finally agreed to the stipulations in the divorce. She is ready to get the certificate now.

 

Will it look bad if I visited her two times while married? Will it look bad if she gets divorce certificate one month and we start the process next month.

 

Thanks for your help. I have learned so much from this website.

 

Thank You

David

[dnoblett]

Ellis:

What are some typical red flags that can cause a Consular Officer to suspect the merits of a relationship?

 

 

 

On the petitioner¡¯s side, here is a brief and, by no means, complete list of reasons I have seen used to justify the return of family-based IV petitions and K petitions to DHS.

1. A very brief courtship followed by a plunge into matrimony;
   
2. A marriage ceremony arranged only a short time after petitioner arrives in the beneficiary¡¯s country and they meet for the first time;
   
3. No common language;
   
4. Petitioner resides with family members of the beneficiary in the US;
   
5. Petitioner is employed by or has a business relationship with a relative of beneficiary;
   
6. Petitioner submits phone records that show he uses a residential phone number that is listed in the name of another person.
   
7. US divorce followed very quickly by an engagement to foreign beneficiary is often a red flag for consular officers.
   
8. There is little or no documentary evidence of the relationship prior to the actual engagement.
   
9. Long gaps of time between the petitioner & beneficiary being together in person.
   
10. Failure to disclose previous marriages;
    
11. Failure to disclose previous petitions filed on behalf of other beneficiaries.
    

 

I¡¯ve only addressed the petitioner¡¯s side of the relationship. There are other red flags that can afflict the beneficiary. But the point to remember is that consulates are not supposed to deny family-IV applications for reasons that were generally available to DHS at the time of approval, so tell DHS in advance of any potential red flags when you file the petition. That doesn¡¯t guarantee consular officers won¡¯t find other reasons unknown to DHS, but at least you will have served your client well by disarming the obvious landmines in his or her path. And you will make the consular officers work by forcing them to examine each and every fact asserted in the petition to see if DHS had knowledge of the information used to justify the recommendation for revocation.

http://www.ilw.com/articles/2006,0323-ellis.shtm

[chilton747]

If I were you, I would wait for at least 2 years, then marry in China, then wait another year until you file. I know this sounds drastic but the odds of you getting a visa this early after her divorce are nill. You need to be careful to put it bluntly.

[warpedbored]

I would at least wait until the divorce is final then visit her again. The fact that she is married now while seeing you is a huge red flag for the consulate. They are almost sure to suspect she is using you to bring her husband over later. Chilton's advice was good. I would wait for quite some time after her divorce is final to file. I am usually against using a lawyer but in this case it might be a good idea. If you do use a lawyer make sure they are familiar with the inner workings of the consulate in Guangzhou. There are a couple we are familiar with here at CFL. Marc Ellis http://www.marcellislaw.com/ and John Roth. http://www.arctec.com/index.html

[Stepbrow]

If your lady were an American, and she told you that she was married, but would get a divorce to marry you, what would you think of that? The same logic applies even though she is Chinese. The fact that she is married and has been having a relationship with you should be a red flag to you.

 

Chilton's advice is correct. If you rush things, your chances of getting a finding of "Non Bonified Relationship," and a white slip will be high.

 

In answer to your questions, yes, it will look bad that you were visiting a married woman. Second, it will look bad that there will be a short time between her divorce and your petition for her visa.

 

Here is a link about red flags: http://candleforlove.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=35080

 

Also, here is a link to Bonifide Relationship issues: http://candleforlove.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=35161

 

I hope things work out for you.

[samsong]

Don't let them scare you, Davidq. It is only there opinions and not at all the protocol of the visa unit. It was less than a year between my wife's divorce and when I filed the I-130 and the visa process went off without a hitch. I'm telling you this because none of the visa process is all black and white. Some make it and some don't no matter what the case may be. So carry on with your plans as long as they are true and to your satisfaction. My only suggestion to you would be go back to China and marry her after a few months past her divorce and then come back and file the paperwork.

 

Good Luck.

[Randy W]

Don't let them scare you, Davidq. It is only there opinions and not at all the protocol of the visa unit. It was less than a year between my wife's divorce and when I filed the I-130 and the visa process went off without a hitch. I'm telling you this because none of the visa process is all black and white. Some make it and some don't no matter what the case may be. So carry on with your plans as long as they are true and to your satisfaction. My only suggestion to you would be go back to China and marry her after a few months past her divorce and then come back and file the paperwork.

 

Good Luck.

 

 

Yes - way too often on sites such as this, opinions are repeated often enough to become "facts".

[Davidq]

I am thank full for everyone's opinion.

 

This is why I read this website. I have been involved with this woman for 10 months. I know her situation. I believe her in everything she says.

 

Yes I did come here to ask for your advice. I thank you for your personal feelings about this. I feel that 2 years is way off base though. I have read many stories here and feel that is too long. I could be wrong and will admit that.

 

I do understand that visiting her while she was married was wrong. I did not know this until after the first meeting. Or lets put it this way the last day of our first meeting. But when we talked that last day I learned so much about her. I know her situation. I know how she feels.

 

Yes I visited her again for a 2nd time. I do not regret it.

 

We will go from here. I will still seek advice from time to time.

 

Thank you again for your opinions and insight!

 

David

[warpedbored]

There is concept of "front loading" your petition. It means to confront head on some of the things you think might cause you problems. If I were the VO interviewing your sweet heart I would be suspicious of her using you to bring her husband over later. It may be a good idea to explain in detail the reasons for her remaining married for so long after separation. Obviously the longer she is divorced before filing the petition the better. I also understand the burning ache of being apart. Use your own judgement.

[tsap seui]

I am involved with a Chinese woman and have gone to China to visit her 2 times now. We are now ready to go ahead with the Visa process. We are very much in love with each other.

 

I am looking for the red flags in the VIsa process. The reason I am asking this is because she is still married. I knew this after the first time I visited. I do believe her in her reasons for not getting the divorce certificate.

 

Her husband has finally agreed to the stipulations in the divorce. She is ready to get the certificate now.

 

Will it look bad if I visited her two times while married? Will it look bad if she gets divorce certificate one month and we start the process next month. My opinion...Yes, and Yes

 

Thanks for your help. I have learned so much from this website.

 

Thank You

 

David

 

 

 

David, all of us on here understand the feeling of wanting our women over here tomorrow. The guy who told you to wait two years has lived through a denial and he had to wait longer than that to get his wife onto American shores...he ain't no dummy.

 

The guys who told you to pretty much go ahead and file are right too.

 

Dan, gave you some red flags the consulate looks for...right from their own mouths.

The thing is, it's all a crap shoot at the interview, some folks get the visa with worse evidence, or a case, than others who had their ducks all in a row...it's as simple as that, like picking up a duck in the ducky pond at a carnival and your ducky says "VISA" on the bottom....or not.

 

You feel lucky? Go ahead and roll the dice and file now, or next month after she has that certificate in her hands...my "opinion" is to wait 6 months after her divorce and file.

 

Whenever you file, front load your case with an explanation about your woman's situation and why she had another man visit her while she was still married.

 

The thing is, you may well get lucky by filing next month. If you aren't lucky at the interview and should get denied...the Department of State and the USCIS will introduce you to the two years of waiting that chilton747 advised you about, because that's about how long your paperwork will get held up in limbo....again, unless you're lucky and they only screw you around 8 months or a year.

 

If you get denied on a K-1, you can always go back over, get married, and file again...whenever you feel like it. I have a friend who did just that, got denied in February of 2009, pretty much left the consulate and went and got married in March of 2009 and filed in April 2009, just got his wife's visa in February 2010....but...they had to wait that extra year, and instead of just having to learn how to file a petition, they had to learn how to WAIT and fight a denial, and hope they got lucky. He used an attorney...he also got to spend some money, as well as...wait.

 

I wish you two the best. I hope you are very lucky and don't have to endure a denial wait time...they are so uncomfortable.

 

tsap seui

 

I think I used the word "wait" 6 times, and the word "lucky" 6 times....Hmmmm

[knloregon]

Good advice to be prudent in the short term to mid-range. Two years? perhaps not quite that long, but if you pull a white on this----it would either be two years to overcome -----or never. So as Dirty Harry said: So do you fell lucky? Well, do ya'?

 

If I were in your shoes, I wouldn't even mention in petition a relationship prior to divorce.

 

I'd call her (and to make it gender fair) your divorce the beginning of the relationship between the two of you, and go to visit (AND DOCUMENT!) going forward. At least a year, 18 months.. Seems unlikely, that DOS would delve into your collective past, unless you have already had contact with them.

[david_dawei]

Don't let them scare you, Davidq. It is only there opinions and not at all the protocol of the visa unit. It was less than a year between my wife's divorce and when I filed the I-130 and the visa process went off without a hitch. I'm telling you this because none of the visa process is all black and white. Some make it and some don't no matter what the case may be. So carry on with your plans as long as they are true and to your satisfaction. My only suggestion to you would be go back to China and marry her after a few months past her divorce and then come back and file the paperwork.

 

Good Luck.

but you cannot compare your time of what? 6-8 years ago to today.

 

Yes, this is only my opinion. RED. Choose any shade you want and proceed with caution. Justify the relationship however you want, it won't be as others who judge the visa will. Disclaimer again: Just my opinion.

[ShaQuaNew]

You can avoid the hassles and wait if you really love this woman by moving to China and living with her here.

[david_dawei]

You can avoid the hassles and wait if you really love this woman by moving to China and living with her here.

The Road Less Traveled

[samsong]

Don't let them scare you, Davidq. It is only there opinions and not at all the protocol of the visa unit. It was less than a year between my wife's divorce and when I filed the I-130 and the visa process went off without a hitch. I'm telling you this because none of the visa process is all black and white. Some make it and some don't no matter what the case may be. So carry on with your plans as long as they are true and to your satisfaction. My only suggestion to you would be go back to China and marry her after a few months past her divorce and then come back and file the paperwork.

 

Good Luck.

but you cannot compare your time of what? 6-8 years ago to today.

 

Yes, this is only my opinion. RED. Choose any shade you want and proceed with caution. Justify the relationship however you want, it won't be as others who judge the visa will. Disclaimer again: Just my opinion.

I'm not making any comparisons, David. I'm just pointing out to David, (the other David...), that his chances on getting a visa aren't so bad. There isn't any law against getting married right after a divorce and I'm sure the VO's don't frown upon it except they may look into it for fraud which they are well trained to identify, and which I am sure, isn't the case in David's situation.

In my opinion, and my experience, David's chances of obtaining a visa for his fiancee, or qizi, is just as good as anybody elses.