US Angers China...

[ShaQuaNew]

 

1. So why does Taiwan buy the arms from the US if they are interested in close ties and coming back in the fold of China?

 

2. I was quite surprised to find that my Chinese coworkers place Taiwanese people just about the Japanense.

 

As to your point 1, Taiwan became a force on the business landscape only because of support from the US. The US reaps both economic, tactical, and strategical benefit, but is also the puppet master of the small island's government. The people of Taiwan, not the government, have mixed views about keeping close ties to the US.'

 

As to point 2, I believe the view that Chinese people put Taiwan in a class with the Japanese is mistaken. The Japanese maliciously murdered thousands of Chinese and Taiwanese people during WWII. The memories of those atrocities are still vivid.

[tsap seui]

 

Second, because of the arms we have sold to Taiwan, Taiwan has a strong deterrent capability. Taiwan's weapons systems and training are first class, China's not so much.

 

China is not interested in taking over Taiwan using military means. However, if the US continues to be provocative and attempt to undermine the growing relationship between China and Taiwan, you can be sure that China would roll over the small island before anyone could say "boo."

 

Make no mistake, while the US has the strongest technical military in the world, China is right there with them. The US should be seeking an alliance with China rather than using tough talk like a bully on the playground.

 

AMEN, Jesse!! What the hell are we doing? And why? You'd think the military industrial complex still ran this country. Opps, my bad, maybe they still do.

 

I just wish America would get along with the rest of the world, instead of trying to rule it, as WE see fit.

 

tsap seui

[knloregon]

".... I was quite surprised to find that my Chinese coworkers place Taiwanese people just about the Japanese...."

 

They fought a brutal civil war against each other. As a PLA officer, Father saw some of the atrocities, (he reports that it generally wasn't as bad as the things the Japanese did---but he admits, atrocities---on both sides, PLA did execute landlords, (who resisted the taking of their land)---simply for being landlords..

 

When I left the South for graduate school in California, (Southern Maryland, the county that sheltered John Wilkes Booth) --- in 1976, the Civil War was very much still on the minds of many, and almost---at least just under the surface, a political issue.

[tonado]

Selling arms is big business for any country.

[Robert S.]

Selling arms is big business for any country.

 

The US just sold Taiwan a bunch of weapons which are completely useless. There is no way they could use them unless they did not care what kind of response they provoked. It is not like their whole arsenal is enough to do any significant damage to China. Basically we scammed them into thinking they are tough guys.

 

China could invade and take over Taiwan by giving 10 million people a paddle and an inner tube and telling them to go invade. They could build 10,000 pontoon bridges and just say, hey, anybody want to go to Taiwan?

 

Taiwan is a part of China and they will be together again at some point.

[a2784]

 

1. So why does Taiwan buy the arms from the US if they are interested in close ties and coming back in the fold of China?

 

2. I was quite surprised to find that my Chinese coworkers place Taiwanese people just about the Japanense.

 

As to your point 1, Taiwan became a force on the business landscape only because of support from the US. The US reaps both economic, tactical, and strategical benefit, but is also the puppet master of the small island's government. The people of Taiwan, not the government, have mixed views about keeping close ties to the US.'

 

As to point 2, I believe the view that Chinese people put Taiwan in a class with the Japanese is mistaken. The Japanese maliciously murdered thousands of Chinese and Taiwanese people during WWII. The memories of those atrocities are still vivid.

 

Yea your right that was too far regarding point 2 ... but what I meant was, at least the co-workers in my company I have dealt with, is that the Chinese really think all Taiwanese bosses are bad/more corrupt and would prefer not to have to work for or with them. On the other hand the Taiwanese in our company prefer not to work with mainland Chinese and think the mainland is "backwards" compared to them.

 

Regarding point 1 all the Chinese I have ever talked to say just what you said regarding the Taiwan govt. and the desire/wishes of the people. However I have yet to talk to a Taiwan person either living there or in the US (but my sample size is small .. <24 and all working for an international company) that wants to be part of China.

[tsap seui]

Selling arms is big business for any country.

 

The US just sold Taiwan a bunch of weapons which are completely useless. There is no way they could use them unless they did not care what kind of response they provoked. It is not like their whole arsenal is enough to do any significant damage to China. Basically we scammed them into thinking they are tough guys.

 

China could invade and take over Taiwan by giving 10 million people a paddle and an inner tube and telling them to go invade. They could build 10,000 pontoon bridges and just say, hey, anybody want to go to Taiwan?

 

Taiwan is a part of China and they will be together again at some point.

 

Robert, you have outdone yourself, I may not have to let the dawgs out on you. This is a great post that takes out the hype and puts the whole thing into simple terms. I agree one thousand percent.

 

Plus, just look at how "bad" those Hong Kong folks have it now that the limey's gave them back to China. China may be different than us, but they ain't STUPID. Some people need to understand different doesn't always denote "bad". Heaven help us if China followed our lead and invaded other countries with their soldiers trying to impose their form of "good"...as THEY see it.

 

tsap seui

[Randy W]

Hey, they're on the way

 

http://i48.tinypic.com/2ynl5vo.jpg

[ShaQuaNew]

Hey, they're on the way

 

http://i48.tinypic.com/2ynl5vo.jpg

 

And they're bringing their garters with them!

 

http://i46.tinypic.com/2liyhaf.jpg

[weiaijiayou]

My wife had a related experience today. She came back from her classes saying that she was very ticked off. Apparently, her classmate is Taiwanese, and when she said so, my wife said, "Oh, then you're Chinese." The classmate said, "No, I am not Chinese." After class, as my wife was leaving the room, she heard the classmate say to the professor, "She was trying to tell me I'm Chinese!"

 

From my wife's description of the classmate, it sounded to me like she might be a native Taiwanese person, but my wife doesn't know.

 

Talking about the classmate and other issues related to Taiwan (e.g., the arms sales, one of her favorite tv shows, "kang xi lai le") over dinner, there were many points of confusion because anytime I said 'zhongguo ren' (Chinese) -- intending to contrast them with Taiwanese -- she would take my meaning to include Taiwanese. To me, the only way to get around this problem succinctly would be to call Chinese people 'da lu ren' (mainlanders), which my wife also doesn't like for some reason. Apparently it's built into the way Chinese people think about the world that Taiwanese are Chinese.

 

It's perfectly easy for me to detach myself personally from this question and take either side, so for a while I played devil's advocate and challenged my wife's perspective with some questions -- e.g., why does Taiwan have its own, separate army? if it's already China, why does it have to be "liberated"? Her response: "guomindang ye shi zhongguo de, hao bu hao" ("the nationalist party was also Chinese, cmon!"). With that, we both laughed it off, and I was satisfied that Taiwan is Chinese enough for me.

 

Later on my wife was asking me how she should respond if the classmate brings this up again. I said I really doubt that she would, and that I'm sure it makes the classmate just as frustrated as it makes her.

[ShaQuaNew]

 

Later on my wife was asking me how she should respond if the classmate brings this up again. I said I really doubt that she would, and that I'm sure it makes the classmate just as frustrated as it makes her.

 

Thanks for sharing your experience. I think this is pretty typical thinking amongst the Taiwanese especially. They consider themselves "better" than the Chinese mainlanders. You just don't see the Taiwanese identifying themselves as Chinese. They are proud of it, and spread it around socially as a "name-dropping" kinda thing.

 

If you bring the issue up with a Chinese person, you will generally get a response like, "Of course they are Chinese."

 

[tsap seui]

Hey, they're on the way

 

http://i48.tinypic.com/2ynl5vo.jpg

 

And they're bringing their garters with them!

 

http://i46.tinypic.com/2liyhaf.jpg

 

Hot damn...look at all them babes with weapons!!! I wonder if I could make a suggestion to their tailor to shorten up those skirts about 8 inches?

 

tsap seui

[eseum]

You may find this site to be interesting as it discusses the influx of different groups onto the island of Taiwan.

 

http://www.taiwandna.com/

 

You have to go down the page quite a ways to get into better information.

 

There are at least some native peoples who are not related to the Chinese through their DNA. They were the first inhabitants of the island before the Chinese came. So not all Taiwanese are Chinese.

[ShaQuaNew]

You may find this site to be interesting as it discusses the influx of different groups onto the island of Taiwan.

 

http://www.taiwandna.com/

 

You have to go down the page quite a ways to get into better information.

 

There are at least some native peoples who are not related to the Chinese through their DNA. They were the first inhabitants of the island before the Chinese came. So not all Taiwanese are Chinese.

 

Correct. There are several ethnic groups in Taiwan with ancient history on the island. However, the vast majority of the people that inhabit the island arrived there from China less than 60 years ago.

[a2784]

 

Later on my wife was asking me how she should respond if the classmate brings this up again. I said I really doubt that she would, and that I'm sure it makes the classmate just as frustrated as it makes her.

 

Thanks for sharing your experience. I think this is pretty typical thinking amongst the Taiwanese especially. They consider themselves "better" than the Chinese mainlanders. You just don't see the Taiwanese identifying themselves as Chinese. They are proud of it, and spread it around socially as a "name-dropping" kinda thing.

 

If you bring the issue up with a Chinese person, you will generally get a response like, "Of course they are Chinese."

 

This is the same experience as I have had with Taiwanese when I have heard someone tell them they are Chinese. However I am not as quick to write it off as they just feel "better" than Chinese mainlanders. The ones I have discussed the issue with clearly have differnces of opinion with Chinese govt. and the socialism with Chinese characteristics. In fact I would say I probably am more Chinese than they are based on their comments toward the mainland.