Request for Evidence of bona-fide marital relationship

[Scott DB]

I received this notice in the mail today. I thought this was rare for DCF, but I wasn't entirely surprised. It was addressed to me and had my telephone number on it, though they sent it to the address we listed for Jane's mailing address (which is her employer's).

 

When I submitted the I-130 form, I included an explanation of how we met at a mutual friend's wedding in 2008. The numerous photos we submitted spanning from shortly after then until our wedding all had captions with the dates and locations. Perhaps this was not specific enough?

 

Obviously many of the things they suggest for evidence are impossible to get because they don't apply to us. I've been living and working as an English teacher here in China, so most of our correspondence has been face to face. The place where we reside together is provided by the university which employs me.

 

In addition to writing a more detailed evolution of relationship letter, I'm thinking of asking several people who have known us and of our relationship to write letters supporting us. Do these letters need to be notarized? Does is matter if they aren't US citizens?

 

Also, my parents are now willing to co-sponsor Jane, though they haven't met her in person yet.

 

Any other ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

 

Letter from USCIS:

 

 

Page 1

 

[...]

PLEASE COMPLY WITH THE FOLLOWING INSTRUCTIONS:

 

[...]

 

[X] 8. All documents in a foreign language must be accompanied by a translation in to English. The translator must certify that s/he is competent to translate and that the translation is accurate.

 

[X] 9. Please see the attachment.

 

[ ] 10. You may appear in person at Tian Yu Garden (II Phase) 5th Floor. 136-146 Lin He Zhong Lu, Tian He District, Guangzhou on any Friday (excluding holidays) betwen the hours of 9:00am o 11:30am, or you may mail the documentation to our office, along with a copy of this notice, to the U.S. Consulate General Guangzhou, No. 1 Shamian Street, Guangzhou,China ([Chinese])

 

Failure to submit documentation within 60 days from the date of this notice may result in the denial of your petition/application.

 

[...]

 

Page 2

 

REQUEST FOR EVIDENCE

 

*** Each petition must have its own set of supporting documents in the event that your petitions become separated. Also, each response to a Service request must be accompanied by its blue I-797.

 

*** All foreign language documents must be submitted with complete English translations. The translator must certify that the translation is complete and accurate, and that he or she is competent to translate. Do not submit the English translation without the foreign language document.

------------------------------------------------------------

 

Please respond to the items below:

 

BONA-FIDE MARITAL RELATIONSHIP:

 

You have submitted evidence--a marriage certificate and various photos--confirming that you married the beneficiary listed on the I-130 Petition for Alien Relative. However, the US Citizenship and Immigration Service cannot determine the bona-fide intent of the marital relationship based on this evidence alone.

 

Therefore, submit evidence to establish the bona-fide intent of the marital relationship.

 

Such evidence should include documents showing the co-mingling of monetary funds between you and your spouse, as well as documentary evidence of co-habitation between you and your spouse.

 

Please note: the evidence submitted should span the entire course of the relationship, marital as well as pre-marital. Examples of such evidence may include, but is not limited to the following: birth certificates for children listing both your names as the child's natural parents; property deeds showing both your names as co-owners; documents from government entitlement programs showing both your names; insurance plans showing yourselves as co-beneficiaries; statements from bank accounts in both your names; utilty bills showing a shared residence; receipts for purchases/investments made together; photographs of yourselves together at various stages of your relationship, copies of correspondence between the petitioner and beneficiary, documentary evidence of travel between the two countries of residence establishing the continuing and ongoing nature of the relationship. This evidence is not all inclusive, it is suggested that you submit any other evidence that you feel will help the USCIS to determine that you and your spouse have a bona-fide marital relationship.

[Kyle]

Did you see what we took to our interview? There may be some ideas there.

 

http://candleforlove.com/forums/index.php?...st&p=536147

 

I'm thinking specifically of some items in folders 7-9 and 11.

 

Not sure how much pull letters from various folks would have. Might be worth a shot, but as they didn't mention letters written on your behalf, I wouldn't know how effective they'd be (from their perspective - or authentic - having something notarized doesn't guarantee a statement's accuracy)

[2mike&jin]

I received this notice in the mail today. I thought this was rare for DCF, but I wasn't entirely surprised. It was addressed to me and had my telephone number on it, though they sent it to the address we listed for Jane's mailing address (which is her employer's).

 

When I submitted the I-130 form, I included an explanation of how we met at a mutual friend's wedding in 2008. The numerous photos we submitted spanning from shortly after then until our wedding all had captions with the dates and locations. Perhaps this was not specific enough?

 

Obviously many of the things they suggest for evidence are impossible to get because they don't apply to us. I've been living and working as an English teacher here in China, so most of our correspondence has been face to face. The place where we reside together is provided by the university which employs me.

 

In addition to writing a more detailed evolution of relationship letter, I'm thinking of asking several people who have known us and of our relationship to write letters supporting us. Do these letters need to be notarized? Does is matter if they aren't US citizens?

 

Also, my parents are now willing to co-sponsor Jane, though they haven't met her in person yet.

 

Any other ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

 

Letter from USCIS:

 

 

Page 1

 

[...]

PLEASE COMPLY WITH THE FOLLOWING INSTRUCTIONS:

 

[...]

 

[X] 8. All documents in a foreign language must be accompanied by a translation in to English. The translator must certify that s/he is competent to translate and that the translation is accurate.

 

[X] 9. Please see the attachment.

 

[ ] 10. You may appear in person at Tian Yu Garden (II Phase) 5th Floor. 136-146 Lin He Zhong Lu, Tian He District, Guangzhou on any Friday (excluding holidays) betwen the hours of 9:00am o 11:30am, or you may mail the documentation to our office, along with a copy of this notice, to the U.S. Consulate General Guangzhou, No. 1 Shamian Street, Guangzhou,China ([Chinese])

 

Failure to submit documentation within 60 days from the date of this notice may result in the denial of your petition/application.

 

[...]

 

Page 2

 

REQUEST FOR EVIDENCE

 

*** Each petition must have its own set of supporting documents in the event that your petitions become separated. Also, each response to a Service request must be accompanied by its blue I-797.

 

*** All foreign language documents must be submitted with complete English translations. The translator must certify that the translation is complete and accurate, and that he or she is competent to translate. Do not submit the English translation without the foreign language document.

------------------------------------------------------------

 

Please respond to the items below:

 

BONA-FIDE MARITAL RELATIONSHIP:

 

You have submitted evidence--a marriage certificate and various photos--confirming that you married the beneficiary listed on the I-130 Petition for Alien Relative. However, the US Citizenship and Immigration Service cannot determine the bona-fide intent of the marital relationship based on this evidence alone.

 

Therefore, submit evidence to establish the bona-fide intent of the marital relationship.

 

Such evidence should include documents showing the co-mingling of monetary funds between you and your spouse, as well as documentary evidence of co-habitation between you and your spouse.

 

Please note: the evidence submitted should span the entire course of the relationship, marital as well as pre-marital. Examples of such evidence may include, but is not limited to the following: birth certificates for children listing both your names as the child's natural parents; property deeds showing both your names as co-owners; documents from government entitlement programs showing both your names; insurance plans showing yourselves as co-beneficiaries; statements from bank accounts in both your names; utilty bills showing a shared residence; receipts for purchases/investments made together; photographs of yourselves together at various stages of your relationship, copies of correspondence between the petitioner and beneficiary, documentary evidence of travel between the two countries of residence establishing the continuing and ongoing nature of the relationship. This evidence is not all inclusive, it is suggested that you submit any other evidence that you feel will help the USCIS to determine that you and your spouse have a bona-fide marital relationship.

 

 

Kyle's answer was spot on. You need to answer the "issues" that they brought up...i.e the co-mingling of assets etc. Don't "balk" at this....if you have to, you can manufacture this is short order. Kyle's reference to the list is very good in "proving" the financial end of this. Having said that, only you know what you previously provided - and yes, many of the things that they listed in this last section "don't on their face value" pertain to your situation. BUT YOU HAVE TO ANSWER them anyway.

 

I too lived in China when I applied. All the issues of correspondence, airline tickets, visits etc...are on the surface moot in your case as it was in mine. I did not take these requirements lightly.

 

I documented "every point" in my relationship with her - family pictures with dates on them with explanations, travel within China_with full explanations, travel with her from china to third countries - travel during school breaks, family get-to-gethers and documentation of all aspects of this and our life together. I also spent lot's of time documenting that I could speak Mandarin, was going to school every day to learn it, and that we both could speak each others language. I don't want to be too harsh in saying this...but you have known for months that the interview was coming and that you had to prove all of these points. For me ___it was a exercise in "OVERKILL". IMO, you need to DO THE SAME.

 

You can "overcome" this problem - I'm positive of it...put on your thinking cap - and get past the "it doesn't make sense for us" feeling. Give it the NIKE approach - just do it!

 

My best of luck to you...I'm sure you can overcome this!

Edited January 19, 2010 by 2mike&jin (see edit history)

[Scott DB]

Kyle's answer was spot on. You need to answer the "issues" that they brought up...i.e the co-mingling of assets etc. Don't "balk" at this....if you have to, you can manufacture this is short order. Kyle's reference to the list is very good in "proving" the financial end of this. Having said that, only you know what you previously provided - and yes, many of the things that they listed in this last section "don't on their face value" pertain to your situation. BUT YOU HAVE TO ANSWER them anyway.

 

I too lived in China when I applied. All the issues of correspondence, airline tickets, visits etc...are on the surface moot in your case as it was in mine. I did not take these requirements lightly.

 

I documented "every point" in my relationship with her - family pictures with dates on them with explanations, travel within China_with full explanations, travel with her from china to third countries - travel during school breaks, family get-to-gethers and documentation of all aspects of this and our life together. I also spent lot's of time documenting that I could speak Mandarin, was going to school every day to learn it, and that we both could speak each others language. I don't want to be too harsh in saying this...but you have known for months that the interview was coming and that you had to prove all of these points. For me ___it was a exercise in "OVERKILL". IMO, you need to DO THE SAME.

 

You can "overcome" this problem - I'm positive of it...put on your thinking cap - and get past the "it doesn't make sense for us" feeling. Give it the NIKE approach - just do it!

 

My best of luck to you...I'm sure you can overcome this!

 

Thanks so much to both of you for the words of encouragement and useful suggestions. I realize now how poorly prepared and organized my initial application was. I'm sure I have enough evidence to show the on-going, long term nature of our relationship, between chat logs and local telephone records, and an official letter from my university stating we've been living together on campus.

 

I'm still unsure how to overcome the obstacle of showing co-mingling of financial funds. When we asked our banks about setting up a joint account they told us they wouldn't because apparently "nobody does that" here in China (to even my wife's surprise). I assumed it would be problematic to change the way my bank account in America is set up unless I go there in person, and I haven't been back there in almost a year. Even if we're able to set something up now, won't that just look dubious since it was set up after the request for evidence was made?

Edited January 20, 2010 by Scott DB (see edit history)

[credzba]

 

Thanks so much to both of you for the words of encouragement and useful suggestions. I realize now how poorly prepared and organized my initial application was. I'm sure I have enough evidence to show the on-going, long term nature of our relationship, between chat logs and local telephone records, and an official letter from my university stating we've been living together on campus.

 

I'm still unsure how to overcome the obstacle of showing co-mingling of financial funds. When we asked our banks about setting up a joint account they told us they wouldn't because apparently "nobody does that" here in China (to even my wife's surprise). I assumed it would be problematic to change the way my bank account in America is set up unless I go there in person, and I haven't been back there in almost a year. Even if we're able to set something up now, won't that just look dubious since it was set up after the request for evidence was made?

 

Co-mingled finances don't mean only money.

Property that you bought together counts. You said you were living at the University, but if you own property in America, add her name to it.

If you pay the utilities on the apartment, you can get those in both your names, that is also a co-mingling of funds.

 

You can't add her to your american bank account without a social security number, and she can't get that until she gets to America.

 

What everyone told you is right, meet the requests of the document 110%.

I do think that a note from the University stating you are both living in the same apartment for however long would be useful. That is more than a note of recommendation, it is a verifiable statement of your relationship that has the University Letterhead. As people said, notarization can be faked, but a phone call to the university can verify that letter. I think that is a good idea.

[Kyle]

You can't add her to your american bank account without a social security number, and she can't get that until she gets to America.

 

They added my wife without a ss number or tin number. I bank at a credit union though - I'm not sure if that makes a difference. I seem to recall us using her passport number as her identification. This was done during her second visit to the United States (B-2) and way before we filed our I-130. Also, if she has a credit card, she'll be able to add you to her account and have a credit card issued in your name - also the same mailing address that is used for her card will also apply to yours as well. Ideally, the address for her/your credit cards (assuming you have one) should be the same address used on your I-130. Another suggestion would be to have someone mail you some mail (it can be anything: magazines, statements, letters, etc. - addressed to the both of you (or at least have items to you or her with the same address) - to the address listed on your I-130 (we did this with her credit card statements, as well as from friends from both China and America).

 

I do think that a note from the University stating you are both living in the same apartment for however long would be useful. That is more than a note of recommendation, it is a verifiable statement of your relationship that has the University Letterhead. As people said, notarization can be faked, but a phone call to the university can verify that letter. I think that is a good idea.

We did this, and we also got a letter from the resident committee, where we live, stating that we live together. We needed our marriage certificates, my passport, and Jingjing's family book to get this letter (off campus letter). The office where we got it is called ju wei hui (居委会). Perhaps your wife can help you out. Again, this is only useful if you're living off of campus. If your on campus, your 外事处 wai shi chu (foreign affairs office) can type one up for you. The letterhead is nice, but some schools believe it or not, do not have logo letterhead - so make sure they red stamp it.

 

EDIT:

 

Jingjing and I actually typed up the letter we wanted them to print out (in English). They had no problem doing it this way (my former university). They simply printed it off our USB drive onto their letterhead, stamped it, and that was that. For both of the above letters, we did it this way. We didn't bother getting these letters in Chinese.

 

If you want the format we used, PM me and I'll be happy to share it.

Edited January 20, 2010 by Kyle (see edit history)

[Kyle]

For future reference, I'll go ahead and post copies of the letters we used. For obvious reasons, I've redacted our personal information.

 

http://i46.tinypic.com/2j1tyyb.jpg

 

Letter from my former school. To decrease file size, I excluded the footer which listed the school's contact information.

 

http://i47.tinypic.com/rs90k0.jpg

 

Jingjing and I rented an apartment off campus when I studied Chinese full time for two years. The second image is the letter we received from our local ju wei hui. That reminds me, if you and your wife rent, and you both have signed a lease, you could use that as well.

 

Even if we're able to set something up now, won't that just look dubious since it was set up after the request for evidence was made?

 

I'd still do it if possible. Personally, I don't think it'd look bad. You're simply covering your bases and getting the information they're requesting.

Edited January 20, 2010 by Kyle (see edit history)

[Scott DB]

Okay, these might seem like daft questions, but I'm in pedantic mode now.

 

1.) Should I mail the evidence they requested to the address on the letterhead and address it to the person who signed the letter? They didn't specify exactly how to respond to the request, since box number 10 did not have an 'X' in it. (Note that box 10 contains outdated information about the day and time people can appear in person.)

 

2.) On page 2, which is titled 'REQUEST FOR EVIDENCE', it also says "each response to a Service request must be accompanied by its blue I-797". Does it matter that the form they sent me was not blue? The footer on page 2 says "attachment to I-797", but page 1 doesn't say anything about I-797 and they were both printed on white paper.

 

3.) Considering our circumstances (we live on campus, uni pays for utilities, don't own property in America), am I right in thinking my best bet at this point is to write a statement explaining those circumstances (along with the letter and contract copies from the university) and our future intentions to cover the financial angle? Or should I wait until we have concrete evidence before responding to them? If they choose to be pedantic about this, am I right in thinking the most likely outcome would just be another RFE?

 

4.) Should I send them the white book of my wife's marriage certificate? The woman who accepted my petition told me it was not needed and only accepted mine. They didn't specifically request it in their letter, but they did mark box number 8 stating that "All documents in a foreign language must be accompanied by a translation in to English. The translator must certify that s/he is competent to translate and that the translation is accurate." Or should I just save this and have my wife take it with her to the interview when that time comes?

[Scott DB]

FTR, here's a draft of the cover letter I'm planning to submit.

 

Dear Consulate,

 

 

Thank you for the quick response to my petition I-130 and your request for further evidence. We are happy to comply with your request for evidence of a bona-fide marital relationship.

 

 

Attached I have included:

 

* the original Request For Evidence form you sent me

* a letter detailing the account and circumstances of how I first met my wife and how our relationship evolved

* a letter from my current employer in China stating how long I have been working for them and that I have been residing on their university campus together with my wife for the past 10 months

* various chat logs from instant messengers dating back to the day after we met

* local telephone records detailing telephone calls and text messages we’ve sent each other going back six months (the maximum available from the telephone company)

* a statement about co-mingling of monetary funds

* supplementary supporting evidence

 

 

If you still have any questions or concerns about the bona-fide nature of our marital relationship, please do not hestitate to contact us and we will answer them.

 

 

Sincerely,

 

 

Scott ~~~

Edited January 22, 2010 by Scott DB (see edit history)

[Kyle]

If you want to give an itemized list of documents enclosed, I think that's fine. However, I'd be careful not to provide too much information in your letter. Basically, if it was me, I'd remove the first two paragraphs completely and let your documents speak for themselves. Personally, I feel that your first two paragraphs could raise more questions than anything else. Secondly, the consulate uses EMS only for packages, etc - which is much much more reliable than regular snail mail. Finally, I wouldn't apologize for your "poorly prepared" anything. Why put yourself in this light? Unless they ask for it - I wouldn't offer it (this includes apologies).

 

EDIT:

 

I always kind of looked at my correspondence with the consulate like a job interview. In a job interview you wouldn't apologize for your poorly written resume. Like a resume, keep everything simple and direct.

 

If you're insistent in sending a cover letter (which I think is wise), here's what Jingjing and I used (for our packet 3):

 

Packet 3 Cover Letter

 

Enclosed are the following documents, pertaining to Jingjing SURNAME, (GUZ2009******).

 

1. Completed DS230 Part 1

2. Completed DS230 Part 2

3. Completed OF-169

4. One EMS Mailing Label

5. Packet 3 Instruction Letter – English (has case number)

6. Packet 3 Instruction Letter - Chinese

 

 

We are planning on bringing an additional copy of DS230 – Part 1 and Part 2, when we arrive in Guangzhou for Jingjing’s interview appointment.

 

Thank you,

 

Kyle SURNAME and Jingjing SURNAME

 

Obviously, I don't think my way is the only way to do things. This is just how we approached it, and I'm simply throwing it out there. Good luck, Scott, I hope this gets resolved quickly.

Edited January 22, 2010 by Kyle (see edit history)

[tkgert]

If you want to give an itemized list of documents enclosed, I think that's fine. However, I'd be careful not to provide too much information in your letter. Basically, if it was me, I'd remove the first two paragraphs completely and let your documents speak for themselves. Personally, I feel that your first two paragraphs could raise more questions than anything else. Secondly, the consulate uses EMS only for packages, etc - which is much much more reliable than regular snail mail. Finally, I wouldn't apologize for your "poorly prepared" anything. Why put yourself in this light? Unless they ask for it - I wouldn't offer it (this includes apologies).

 

EDIT:

 

I always kind of looked at my correspondence with the consulate like a job interview. In a job interview you wouldn't apologize for your poorly written resume. Like a resume, keep everything simple and direct.

 

If you're insistent in sending a cover letter (which I think is wise), here's what Jingjing and I used (for our packet 3):

 

Packet 3 Cover Letter

 

Enclosed are the following documents, pertaining to Jingjing SURNAME, (GUZ2009******).

 

1. Completed DS230 Part 1

2. Completed DS230 Part 2

3. Completed OF-169

4. One EMS Mailing Label

5. Packet 3 Instruction Letter ¨C English (has case number)

6. Packet 3 Instruction Letter - Chinese

 

 

We are planning on bringing an additional copy of DS230 ¨C Part 1 and Part 2, when we arrive in Guangzhou for Jingjing¡¯s interview appointment.

 

Thank you,

 

Kyle SURNAME and Jingjing SURNAME

 

Obviously, I don't think my way is the only way to do things. This is just how we approached it, and I'm simply throwing it out there. Good luck, Scott, I hope this gets resolved quickly.

I agree with Kyle about about your first 2 paragraphs, give them what they are asking for and no need to say you are sorry. You did your best and no need to apologize to them, Good Luck