Obama in China.

[A Mafan]

Your statement about connecting the dots is certainly true, especially in light of the link about Obama's lack of taking questions.

 

The article you cited only briefly mentioned that the Chinese didn't allow questions and answers, but I wouldn't call that "censorship of a higher order." I guess I read the article and connected the dots in a different manner.

 

Seriously, the article in question seemed to have a lot more to do with Obama censoring himself, not wanting to tackle any difficult issues. The series of "10 minute one-on-one" interviews was a dodge "of a higher order." I am generally an Obama supporter, but even I would have to agree that he has been a bit cagey with the press of late. Still, I think it is an accurate exercise in dot connecting to say that Obama's lack of openness pales when compared to the oblique techniques of his predecessor. George II was a far cry from being a poster boy for transparency, not to mention his puppeteers Cheney and Rumsfeld.

 

I would agree, however, that two wrongs don't make a right and that the problems with the reign of George II should in no way excuse a lack of openness by the current President.

Huh.

 

I considered it a choice by China, not really criticism of Obama's transparency.

Did we read the same article? I went to the one linked in your post. It mentioned that China didn't allow any questions at the beginning, after that, it was pretty much all about Obama. I guess this only proves your point about connecting the dots.

 

I went back and read the article again and reached the same conclusion. It was more about Obama's light-footing it with the press than about any Chinese censorship. I am referring to the article you had linked to in the highlighted sentence in your post.

I probably didn't make it clear.

 

Example: someone has a post deleted from a board for racist comments. That's one level of censorship: they are allowed to speak, but restricted from specific topics. Then someone is banned from the board. Even if they would stay away from dangerous topics, they are still unable to post.

That's the way I see this. The censorship of President Obama is a higher order of censorship: hundreds of millions of Chinese don't even get to hear him at all, not just hear him cut off for starting to mention the three Ts.

 

Now, I think that is a reactive choice of President Obama, who wants to "restore our standing" in the world by not rocking the boat with people whose good will he wants to earn. I think it is a wrong choice that will not pay dividends. But I recognize it is one of several valid choices made in response to China's decision to prevent President Obama's access to most Chinese citizens. I don't think it President Obama is deliberately attempting to reduce transparency.

 

That may or may not be the end result, but I recognize that isn't the intent by President Obama. The censorship is China's intent.

Edited November 21, 2009 by A Mafan (see edit history)

[Randy W]

 

I probably didn't make it clear.

 

Example: someone has a post deleted from a board for racist comments. That's one level of censorship: they are allowed to speak, but restricted from specific topics. Then someone is banned from the board. Even if they would stay away from dangerous topics, they are still unable to post.

That's the way I see this. The censorship of President Obama is a higher order of censorship: hundreds of millions of Chinese don't even get to hear him at all, not just hear him cut off for starting to mention the three Ts.

 

Now, I think that is a reactive choice of President Obama, who wants to "restore our standing" in the world by not rocking the boat with people whose good will he wants to earn. I think it is a wrong choice that will not pay dividends. But I recognize it is one of several valid choices made in response to China's decision to prevent President Obama's access to most Chinese citizens. I don't think it President Obama is deliberately attempting to reduce transparency.

 

That may or may not be the end result, but I recognize that isn't the intent by President Obama. The censorship is China's intent.

 

 

Maybe I'm not understanding you, but this makes it seem like you're saying that President Obama CHOSE to censor the Chinese media ??!?

 

or, are you trying to imply that he censored himself by not saying something that you wanted him to say? That would simply be the free choice that most of us have.

Edited November 21, 2009 by Randy W (see edit history)

[whome?]

Still, I think it is an accurate exercise in dot connecting to say that Obama's lack of openness pales when compared to the oblique techniques of his predecessor. George II was a far cry from being a poster boy for transparency, not to mention his puppeteers Cheney and Rumsfeld.

 

This is not partisan politics?

[Mick]

Still, I think it is an accurate exercise in dot connecting to say that Obama's lack of openness pales when compared to the oblique techniques of his predecessor. George II was a far cry from being a poster boy for transparency, not to mention his puppeteers Cheney and Rumsfeld.

 

This is not partisan politics?

You are right in your assessment and for my statement, I sincerely apologize. This is one reason I generally steer clear of these kind of discussions. Again, if I offended you, it was not my intention. Sorry.

 

Don, Carl, whoever....if you want to delete that comment, feel free.

[whome?]

Still, I think it is an accurate exercise in dot connecting to say that Obama's lack of openness pales when compared to the oblique techniques of his predecessor. George II was a far cry from being a poster boy for transparency, not to mention his puppeteers Cheney and Rumsfeld.

 

This is not partisan politics?

You are right in your assessment and for my statement, I sincerely apologize. This is one reason I generally steer clear of these kind of discussions. Again, if I offended you, it was not my intention. Sorry.

 

Don, Carl, whoever....if you want to delete that comment, feel free.

I am never offended by these types of comments...just trying to figure out when a comment is considered partisan politics by the mods

[samsong]

Obama in China

 

 

http://i48.tinypic.com/23tjwy.jpg

[knloregon]

Pretty clear that Obama, and every aspect of his admin. really had no control over the message in China from the get-go.

 

Not at all sure that is because of substance, far more inclined to think Obama's style is more threatening to the general population in the eyes of Xinhua (post #71)...

 

obviously, the US began to use China as our banker early in the Bush admn., and I think you could make a pretty good case that it was to create an aurora of financial stability, even as we ramped up the war in Iraq, and needed a way to pay for it, short term, without alarming the Country with the true cost--- (like staggeringly high interest rates).

 

Not at all sure Bush could have pulled Iraq off if the true cost of the war was front-and-center.

 

Along with the Wall Street financial melt down, Obama had to face the Chinese banker's wrath with the realization that they are locked in with investments in US $'s that face an uncertain future as an investment----not at all what they seemed to be during the eight years of the Bush Admn.

 

---but again, I'm assuming that Obama's message was muted because China's population is young, and susceptible to the substantial charisma Obama presents, and represents unnecessary risks to social stability.

[whome?]

Pretty clear that Obama, and every aspect of his admin. really had no control over the message in China from the get-go.

 

Not at all sure that is because of substance, far more inclined to think Obama's style is more threatening to the general population in the eyes of Xinhua (post #71)...

 

obviously, the US began to use China as our banker early in the Bush admn., and I think you could make a pretty good case that it was to create an aurora of financial stability, even as we ramped up the war in Iraq, and needed a way to pay for it, short term, without alarming the Country with the true cost--- (like staggeringly high interest rates).

 

Not at all sure Bush could have pulled Iraq off if the true cost of the war was front-and-center.

 

Along with the Wall Street financial melt down, Obama had to face the Chinese banker's wrath with the realization that they are locked in with investments in US $'s that face an uncertain future as an investment----not at all what they seemed to be during the eight years of the Bush Admn.

 

---but again, I'm assuming that Obama's message was muted because China's population is young, and susceptible to the substantial charisma Obama presents, and represents unnecessary risks to social stability.

An interesting article from MSNBC with reaction from people in China to the visit.

http://worldblog.msnbc.msn.com/archive/200...16/2128867.aspx

[Guest Pommey]

I think he is trying hard to repair relationships and build some new ones in the international community.

Its a vastly different approach from the "chest thumpers" of the recently departed past Admin, it will take time maybe more than his alone, but his foresight is refreshing.

[Mick]

I think he is trying hard to repair relationships and build some new ones in the international community.

Its a vastly different approach from the "chest thumpers" of the recently departed past Admin, it will take time maybe more than his alone, but his foresight is refreshing.

Well-said.....I couldn't agree more. It is, indeed, refreshing.

[A Mafan]

I would just like to see some tangible evidence it is working.

 

This is not criticism of President Obama; trying to make a fresh start is not bad/evil/wrong.

 

My concern is that no country seems to be responding the way President Obama predicted/wanted.

[Yuanyang]

I would just like to see some tangible evidence it is working.

 

This is not criticism of President Obama; trying to make a fresh start is not bad/evil/wrong.

 

My concern is that no country seems to be responding the way President Obama predicted/wanted.

IMHO they are waiting to see if we can maintain a consistent steady approach or if we will once again go it alone.

[Guest jin979]

Should he have gone to China first on this visit ?

[Guest Pommey]

I wonder how as "Americas first Pacific president" and the rise of China how this is going to change GUZ and the "hidden/unstated" discrimination towards granting Chinese visas ?

[chilton747]

I think he is trying hard to repair relationships and build some new ones in the international community.

Its a vastly different approach from the "chest thumpers" of the recently departed past Admin, it will take time maybe more than his alone, but his foresight is refreshing.

Well-said.....I couldn't agree more. It is, indeed, refreshing.

 

Stay tuned for the results.