Why I Think More People Are Shooting People

[Guest Pommey]

A Mafan is right. A military base especially, except one in a forward area is guns free.

 

But they don't check you going through the gate. Just your ID or badge on your vehicle, give a salute if you're an officer and wave you through.

 

Going through on the bus, with other civilians, yes, they will even search you.

 

On a high alert base where rapid strike elements are there, the restrictions are even higher.

 

Have to say though, to get 100 rounds off in such a short time and still being able to say "Allahu akbar" the whole time meant he would have made a decent soldier.

 

He had to have been carrying some fast loads for that revolver.

[Guest Pommey]

A Mafan is right. A military base especially, except one in a forward area is guns free.

 

But they don't check you going through the gate. Just your ID or badge on your vehicle, give a salute if you're an officer and wave you through.

 

Going through on the bus, with other civilians, yes, they will even search you.

 

On a high alert base where rapid strike elements are there, the restrictions are even higher.

 

Have to say though, to get 100 rounds off in such a short time and still being able to say "Allahu akbar" the whole time meant he would have made a decent soldier.

 

He had to have been carrying some fast loads for that revolver.

 

Dont know Eric I remember visiting Forts Bragg and Benning , seemed to me more weapons in base housing than I've even seeen anywhere.

[Eric739]

A Mafan is right. A military base especially, except one in a forward area is guns free.

 

But they don't check you going through the gate. Just your ID or badge on your vehicle, give a salute if you're an officer and wave you through.

 

Going through on the bus, with other civilians, yes, they will even search you.

 

On a high alert base where rapid strike elements are there, the restrictions are even higher.

 

Have to say though, to get 100 rounds off in such a short time and still being able to say "Allahu akbar" the whole time meant he would have made a decent soldier.

 

He had to have been carrying some fast loads for that revolver.

 

Dont know Eric I remember visiting Forts Bragg and Benning , seemed to me more weapons in base housing than I've even seeen anywhere.

 

The rules are there but as I said, easily dodged. You can sneak in all kinds of things. The idea is to maintain inventory on things that belong to the military.

 

I came back with a whole lotta stuff, non-explosive. Nice chrome 9mm I got off a Chinese officer. Made some money off that one. Hid it in my chest of drawers in the barracks, once I was out of the hospital. The difference was I came back with no pre-flight interview since I was injured. They just packed my gear and put it on the plane.

 

But if you come on post with a non-issue weapon get ready for trouble.

That kind of thing gets reported to the OD and onto the commanders.

[knloregon]

I was never more than a Sea Scout in my teens, but we managed to strip down a Navy Colt semi-auto pistol, and take it off--piece at a time, from a YP (small ship, used for training Midshipmen).

 

"they were plenty social among themselves, they were not disconnected from other people the way folks are today."

 

---In fact, some would suggest we were more in numbers than the 'silent majority' Nixon would have you believe during the VN era.

[se_lang]

When I was in the Army I lived in the barracks most of the time until I got married and ALL weapons private and issued had to be kept in the armory, Now the guys that lived off post were free to keep their weapons at home, when it came to housing I don't know 100% I know some guys that kept there private weapons at home. As for what happened at Ft Hood I can't see social isolation being the cause, more like hopelessness or cowardliness he tried to get out of the Army but was not allowed. So either he was afraid to go or had moral objections about going. He had other options and as a shrink I think he knew them. At a bare minimum he could have gone AWOL.

 

As for social isolation, it is what people want, if it wasn't they would not do it.

[knloregon]

"...A widely-reported 2006 study argued that since 1985 Americans have become more socially isolated, the size of their discussion networks has declined, and the diversity of those people with whom they discuss important matters has decreased. In particular, the study found that Americans have fewer close ties to those from their neighborhoods and from voluntary associations.>."

 

Interesting that this Pew Internet Overview of the studies didn't mention religion & church.

 

Regardless of denomination, America certainly has become less churched since the 1980's... And while I'm sure some here might disagree, I do think church is one of the strongest institutions fostering social fabric---for better or worse---depending on your perspective, but definitely countering social isolation.

[A Mafan]

As for social isolation, it is what people want, if it wasn't they would not do it.

It is the effective choice, but I'm not sure it is the intended choice.

 

Perhaps we are socially isolated because we are distracted by flashy games and theater-quality home media?

 

Perhaps we are socialy isolated because wave after wave of sensationalist news items have convinced us some of our neighbors are sexual predators or prone to violence?

 

When only 10% of the nation had A/C, and the house was too hot to bear, you went out on your front porch and had to deal with your neighbors.

 

When there were no privacy fences, you saw people in their backyard, your kids were able to meet other kids not in the same classroom...

 

Of course, I'm not saying great home theater systems, privacy fences, and A/C are bad things.

 

I'm not very social around my neighborhood, and that is more my fault than my neighbors...or at least not less.

 

99.9% of the time, it doesn't result in gunfire and death. But every once in a while, someone feels like they don't matter and might as well go out in a blaze of bullets...

 

I think. I'm no psychologist, so I could be completely wrong.

[Guest Pommey]

just off the top of my head , how was a guy with obvious and documented sympathies to lets say "terrorists" a commissioned officer in the US army.

[A Mafan]

just off the top of my head , how was a guy with obvious and documented sympathies to lets say "terrorists" a commissioned officer in the US army.

Some reports are indicating political correctness was a significant factor.

[warpedbored]

Let me make something perfectly clear before this goes much further. Muslim bashing is not going to happen here. Persist and you will no longer be a member of this site. This is not an example of having Politically Correct shoved down your throat. This is a matter of freedom of religion and common respect. Being a Muslim does not make you a terrorist. The Army cannot bar you for being a Muslim. We have Muslim members of this website and they are as welcome here as anyone else.

[Eric739]

just off the top of my head , how was a guy with obvious and documented sympathies to lets say "terrorists" a commissioned officer in the US army.

 

Because in America we are not suppose to "profile",showing once again our stupidity.I still believe this was a terrorist act,but of course we will be told differently.So,like always,lets blame it on someone or something else,this time the army.The guy was a nut job. Me,Having dated a Muslim girl a few years ago.The crap that is taught to them at an early age,is down right scary.This girl i dated was an angel until you brought up "jews"and "infidels",and Muslim causes,and she became a person with an awful hateful mindset,very disturbing.These people do think very differently.....but hey I am profiling......and we dont profile,so nut jobs like this will continue to mingle into society un-noticed until thier time to die for their god,and take a few infidels with them.Hey just my 2 cents,take it or leave it,I am not bashing Muslims,just stating facts ,i am not saying All Muslims are terrorists,but unfortunetly in this point in history most terrorists are muslims..

 

Jimi

 

I will go with warpedboard. I know many Muslims and they are not as conflicted as this guy seems to have been. They are good people and every one of them I know is quite upset about 9/11 and what this guy did in the name of his religion, if in fact, that is the case, which I doubt as well.

 

And I don't agree that most terrorists are Muslims. In fact, the Muslim community I know disowns the acts of these terrorists. They are not acting in the name of Islam. They are just terrorists interested only in their own narcissistic ideas.

 

This guy was just plain nuts. Had nothing to do with isolation or the TV, the lack of one, or guns themselves, or that he got by the officer candidate psychiatric interview. Just like Hannibal Lector, anyone an be fooled by someone who knows how to do it.

 

I do like the idea that he was a coward, although that is an easy thing to say. He had other choices. If he is so moralistic about his life, he could have resigned his commission. But his ego would not allow that given his background. He came from dirt and didn't want to go back. He could not resolve that conflict.

 

I still cannot believe he got off 100 rounds with an automatic pistol and revolver in that span of time. That's carrying and changing 6 or 7 clips and/or having several fast loads for the revolver. And having your hands occupied by the other gun. I would like to see how he did that.....I think the press needs to look into friendly fire.....

 

I carried two 45's and had trouble trying to keep from shooting myself.

[A Mafan]

just off the top of my head , how was a guy with obvious and documented sympathies to lets say "terrorists" a commissioned officer in the US army.

 

Because in America we are not suppose to "profile",showing once again our stupidity.I still believe this was a terrorist act,but of course we will be told differently.So,like always,lets blame it on someone or something else,this time the army.The guy was a nut job. Me,Having dated a Muslim girl a few years ago.The crap that is taught to them at an early age,is down right scary.This girl i dated was an angel until you brought up "jews"and "infidels",and Muslim causes,and she became a person with an awful hateful mindset,very disturbing.These people do think very differently.....but hey I am profiling......and we dont profile,so nut jobs like this will continue to mingle into society un-noticed until thier time to die for their god,and take a few infidels with them.Hey just my 2 cents,take it or leave it,I am not bashing Muslims,just stating facts ,i am not saying All Muslims are terrorists,but unfortunetly in this point in history most terrorists are muslims..

 

Jimi

 

I will go with warpedboard. I know many Muslims and they are not as conflicted as this guy seems to have been. They are good people and every one of them I know is quite upset about 9/11 and what this guy did in the name of his religion, if in fact, that is the case, which I doubt as well.

 

And I don't agree that most terrorists are Muslims. In fact, the Muslim community I know disowns the acts of these terrorists. They are not acting in the name of Islam. They are just terrorists interested only in their own narcissistic ideas.

 

This guy was just plain nuts. Had nothing to do with isolation or the TV, the lack of one, or guns themselves, or that he got by the officer candidate psychiatric interview. Just like Hannibal Lector, anyone an be fooled by someone who knows how to do it.

 

I do like the idea that he was a coward, although that is an easy thing to say. He had other choices. If he is so moralistic about his life, he could have resigned his commission. But his ego would not allow that given his background. He came from dirt and didn't want to go back. He could not resolve that conflict.

 

I still cannot believe he got off 100 rounds with an automatic pistol and revolver in that span of time. That's carrying and changing 6 or 7 clips and/or having several fast loads for the revolver. And having your hands occupied by the other gun. I would like to see how he did that.....I think the press needs to look into friendly fire.....

 

I carried two 45's and had trouble trying to keep from shooting myself.

Actually, this thread was started because of the guy in Tampa, not the shooting in Ft Hood, but it kind of swerved that way.

 

However, re: MAJ Hasan, the pistols he carried apparently carried 20-round magazines, so 100 rounds could be as little as 3 reloads.

 

I've heard friendly fire was a possible issue, but if it happened, I'm sure they are downplaying it so as to not add to the grief.

[Eric739]

[Actually, this thread was started because of the guy in Tampa, not the shooting in Ft Hood, but it kind of swerved that way.

 

However, re: MAJ Hasan, the pistols he carried apparently carried 20-round magazines, so 100 rounds could be as little as 3 reloads.

 

I've heard friendly fire was a possible issue, but if it happened, I'm sure they are downplaying it so as to not add to the grief.

 

I have read where the 5.7 pistol can carry 30 rounds but still that is a whole lot of action when this would be (presumably) the first time he fired "in anger." And he carried a pistol he supposedly used.

 

I do agree about the friendly fire angle being suppressed. That would be soooo military.

 

But he was in a processing center where the likelihood of an armed MP is rare.

 

As to the Tampa guy, not sure the discussion is any different. Much of it still applies.

 

My wife mentioned reading both stories and remarked America is unsafe. Another issue to deal with.....

Edited November 9, 2009 by Eric739 (see edit history)

[Stepbrow]

I agree that social isolation is a factor but as Tony mentioned so is the recession: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/worl...icle6069944.ece

[TLB]

I think one of the interesting things about the new "internet" world is that, ironically, one can become more socially isolated (in the sense of experiencing the kind of diversity of opinion mentioned earlier) while at the same time increasing the number of people in one's network (by only "socializing" with those whose views mirror your own).