member case denied - DavidLuo

[david_dawei]

FYI: I edited out her name from the original post and the quoted reply.

 

if DavidLuo wants to PM me some answers to the previous posts, I will post them if I'm still online.

 

--------

 

Proving some of this later at the interview can be difficult since sometimes it is not even asked for by the VO. I have in the past advised some to know how to 'slip in' information, since the VO may not directly ask for it. Another thread could be written on this subtle issue alone.

 

Hi David and ALL,

 

The way I handled this topic "Another thread could be written on this subtle issue alone" is that I took an updated Letter of Evolution of Marital Relationship and had it Notarized at ACS,,and I still think that they scanned the letter.

At Lings interview I folded the updated Letter of Evolution of Marital Relationship long wise and placed it in my Passport that Ling was to hand to the VO. Now the VO is not obligated to read the letter,but I think our VO was curious and pulled it out and read it.

This is one way of offering the Letter of Evolution at the interview and another way maybe to have things notarized at ACS.

I also had my I-134 notarized at ACS and they never asked to see the I-134,,so I think they scanned my notarized papers at ACS and didn't ask for them because they knew about my I-134...just my feeling.

 

Tom and Ling

thanks for sharing Tom...

 

yes, the VO is not obligated to look; and usually they only look at what they ask for; there are many reported examples of the SO offering a letter which the VO refuses... and others report a VO taking a cursory look.

 

THe moral of the story is: your VO is the luck of the draw... luck never felt so good and yet so damning too !

[Guest ShaQuaNew]

---------------

From DavidLuo

---------------

 

First meet in Mar. 2006 and chatted until Nov when I made a trip to China. We spent 3 weeks together and then got married because we fell in love and wanted a future together.

 

Wired transfer to my wife the money was never wired transfer it was cashier check that i had gave her.

It says in the initial post/letter- "The petitioner submitted evidence of remittances to the beneficiary of the $2000 wired transfer."

 

Is the immigration letter posted verbatim?

 

 

---------------

From DavidLuo

---------------

 

Quote samsong "Is the immigration letter posted verbatim?" The immigration letter are word for word.

 

 

With these sorts of things, there is usually always a single triggering event, upon which they will look at the entire package to find evidence to corroborate their suspicion.

 

It's hard to determine from the content of the letter, exactly what that triggering event was, but it seems they are highly suspicious that David sent $2,000.00 to the beneficiary, when his reported income was only $7,000.00. And, who wouldn't be suspicious by this?

 

On the flip side, it seems there are many Americans who have small or no income, but are indeed cash rich; meaning they've got a ton of money stashed away somewhere. Perhaps that's David's case? If not, I don't see how anyone who only made 7K, could expect to support someone.

 

Another part of this picture, is just exactly where did this information come from?

 

However, the USCIS has received information regarding the beneficiary¡¯s qualification for the classification sought...

Edited May 22, 2009 by ShaQuaNew (see edit history)

[Guest jin979]

I believe CFL needs to created pinned tread on P-4 and interview preperation. so many are getting denied for what should be addressed early at least before interview.

Doblett. Randyw.Davidz,Rogerinca.Pommey.ellis island. warpebored could manage and update it and it reflect current changes in process. i believe should be first thing new members see after rules.

[Guest ShaQuaNew]

I believe CFL needs to created pinned tread on P-4 and interview preperation. so many are getting denied for what should be addressed early at least before interview.

Doblett. Randyw.Davidz,Rogerinca.Pommey.ellis island. warpebored could manage and update it and it reflect current changes in process. i believe should be first thing new members see after rules.

 

 

I think it important to not over-complicate issues by providing too many areas with what would likely be the same information that's available. It just cannot be emphasized enough, that BEFORE anyone considers taking on the huge task of marriage-based immigration, that they get their ducks in a row.

 

That means, don't get the cart before the horse.

Don't be in too much of a hurry.

Prepare, prepare, and then prepare some more...

 

The major idea here, is the petitioner MUST prove to the satisfaction of the US government that:

 

1. They have a bona fide relationship....

 

then...

 

2. They can afford it....

 

Taking the steps to prove a bona fide relationship differ slightly between visa types, but the same plan of action holds true for all; that is, plan first, act second.

 

Far too many people act first, and plan second. It's hard to undo information after you present it. Get it right the first time! To do that, you must make sure that you begin tracking EVERYTHING.

 

That means, keep a record of all email. Don't like email, and prefer texting, IM'ing and video? Well, go ahead. But send email too. At least a short nice note a few times a week. Make sure whoever you send it to, sends something back from the same email address all the time.

 

Get a telephone account that allows you to have a log of the time, date, telephone number of origination, and telephone number of the destination. OneSuite.com offers this, as do many others.

 

Start a daily log book. Write down short notes of events. People you've called, things you've done, and so on. This log book can provide a great reference for telling you where you put something, and when you did it.

 

Log your trips to China. Keep all receipts. Take photos. Lots of them, depicting the two of you together, with imprinted dates. Include family and children. Ask people to take pictures of you together. Chinese people love to take pictures. Give them the camera. They won't run away with it; I promise.

 

Okay, so you think you want to get married? Start by planning what you need to do. Not sure if you're gonna get married, but you're heading over for a visit? Then, get your ducks in a row, and start gathering evidence of everything.

 

The majority of cases I've seen, that get denied, are often related to poor planning, poor organization, or a lack of clear evidence.

 

Okay, so you've compiled a ton of stuff. Get organized. Make your case, and present it well. The burden is on YOU, not them. If you make them the bad guys, even though they might be, then you only shoot yourself in the foot.

 

I agree with you though Jin that our members should have something well-presented to click where they can get easy to understand information. I started and nearly finished a Help project, with DavidZs Easy FAQ. If there is any call for it, I will complete it.

 

I have no pride when it comes to that sort of thing. I'm Technical Writer by trade for over 25-years. It's what I do for a living, is compile information and instruction.

Edited May 22, 2009 by ShaQuaNew (see edit history)

[david_dawei]

However, the USCIS has received information regarding the beneficiary¡¯s qualification for the classification sought...

every filing is for a [visa] classification. if you file K1 or CR1, you petition for a visa classification; just means that any white slip means they don't qualify [for immigration benefits].

 

I've tried to explain this in the past, but it's just too hard to understand on some level...

 

Your idea of a 'trigger' is the right idea. It is usually documentation related; how else can they evaluate a petition leading to a visa application except through what is submitted... of course, as trained VOs, they look for certain 'profiling' issues, which many exist. The interview is the final trump card for them (ie: blue or white), or 'pink slip'.

[david_dawei]

I believe CFL needs to created pinned tread on P-4 and interview preperation. so many are getting denied for what should be addressed early at least before interview.

Doblett. Randyw.Davidz,Rogerinca.Pommey.ellis island. warpebored could manage and update it and it reflect current changes in process. i believe should be first thing new members see after rules.

Yes, it may be time to critically look carefully at the trends; I did this some years ago and created the Interview FAQ from that. Honestly, It is predictable once you see it... but it has certainly changed since then.

[david_dawei]

I think it important to not over-complicate issues by providing too many areas with what would likely be the same information that's available. It just cannot be emphasized enough, that BEFORE anyone considers taking on the huge task of marriage-based immigration, that they get their ducks in a row.

We've talked this for about 3 years... but it doesn't take...

 

Most here have already filed... so it's too late on some levels. Most "rush to file; rush to marry; rush to get her here".

 

I'm always surprised at how emotional the USCs are and how they lack planning for such an important lifetime issue... As if the US govt owes them the right to bring a loved one here;

 

Here is the truth: You may lover her and you may believe you have every right to bring her here... but your wrong. YOu can marry whoever you want; you can live where ever you may try; but you CANNOT bring into the US whoever you want.

 

People need to wake up from their dream world and realize that filing for an alien to immigrate to the US is serious business... Not a love business.

 

You need drop your sentimentality when it comes to filing and figure out how best to present your case. Anything less is simply naive.

[Guest jin979]

agree with you both

the process and red flags evolve and change. Faqs should reflect this and pinned at top of forums. front loading and interview are keys now. where not in past. and USC being on the case throughout and there for interview .

the days of a simple petion and 1 visit seem over and maybe for good reason, USC's need to show this is real relationship they are most important to which means "having ducks in line" and visits.

i realise many think it is "right" to get visa it is not. you dont buy it you earn it. of course some who have done nothing get it,i saw that at GUZ others with preperations did not. maybe how they present themselves.

[david_dawei]

agree with you both

the process and red flags evolve and change. Faqs should reflect this and pinned at top of forums. front loading and interview are keys now. where not in past. and USC being on the case throughout and there for interview .

the days of a simple petion and 1 visit seem over and maybe for good reason, USC's need to show this is real relationship they are most important to which means "having ducks in line" and visits.

i realise many think it is "right" to get visa it is not. you dont buy it you earn it. of course some who have done nothing get it,i saw that at GUZ others with preperations did not. maybe how they present themselves.

ÌýÄãµÄ

[Guest ShaQuaNew]

I think it important to not over-complicate issues by providing too many areas with what would likely be the same information that's available. It just cannot be emphasized enough, that BEFORE anyone considers taking on the huge task of marriage-based immigration, that they get their ducks in a row.

We've talked this for about 3 years... but it doesn't take...

 

Most here have already filed... so it's too late on some levels. Most "rush to file; rush to marry; rush to get her here".

 

I'm always surprised at how emotional the USCs are and how they lack planning for such an important lifetime issue... As if the US govt owes them the right to bring a loved one here;

 

Here is the truth: You may lover her and you may believe you have every right to bring her here... but your wrong. YOu can marry whoever you want; you can live where ever you may try; but you CANNOT bring into the US whoever you want.

 

People need to wake up from their dream world and realize that filing for an alien to immigrate to the US is serious business... Not a love business.

 

You need drop your sentimentality when it comes to filing and figure out how best to present your case. Anything less is simply naive.

 

 

Yes, most do figure out what they want to do, only AFTER they meet. Most don't find this Web site, until after they are considering, or just up and got married. So, that first meeting, two, or whatever is already behind them.

 

Still, that doesn't negate the fact that if they haven't yet begun to compile and gather evidence, that they should begin immediately catching up.

 

So, they discover they didn't take pictures. Start NOW!

 

They didn't keep any receipts. Start Now. Gather what you can. Get together with your partner because maybe they can go back to some of the places you visited and get literature from that restaurant, park, or place you visited together. At least get something, that you were there. While it might not be a receipt, at least it can be a co-authored letter or affidavit certifying that you were there on such and such a date. Maybe it was raining, snowing. Maybe the temperature was such and such. Perhaps the waitresses name was Sally, and she had a mustache; you remember that being odd because she was Chinese and sorta looked like a girl.

[samsong]

---------------

From DavidLuo

---------------

 

First meet in Mar. 2006 and chatted until Nov when I made a trip to China. We spent 3 weeks together and then got married because we fell in love and wanted a future together.

 

Wired transfer to my wife the money was never wired transfer it was cashier check that i had gave her.

It says in the initial post/letter- "The petitioner submitted evidence of remittances to the beneficiary of the $2000 wired transfer."

 

Is the immigration letter posted verbatim?

 

 

---------------

From DavidLuo

---------------

 

Quote samsong "Is the immigration letter posted verbatim?" The immigration letter are word for word.

In Matter of Laureano, 19 I&N Dec. 1 (BIA 1983), the Board help that a marriage entered into for the primary purpose of circumventing the immigration laws, referred to as a fraudulent or sham marriage, is not recognized for the purpose of obtaining immigration benefits.

 

In Matter of Estime, 19 I&N Dec. 450 (BIA 1987), the Board help that a notice of intention to revoke approval of a visa petition is not properly issued unless there is ¡°good and sufficient cause¡±. The Board also help that ¡°Good and sufficient cause¡± for issuing such a notice exists when the evidence of record at the time of issuance, if unexplained and unrebutted, would warrant a denial.

 

In Mater of Ho, 19 I&N Dec. 582 (BIA 1988) , the Board help that the petitioner bears the burden in visa petition revocation proceedings of establishing that the beneficiary qualifies for the benefit sought under the immigration laws.

 

In accordance with 8 C.F.R. 205.2, the USCIS proposes to revoke the petition.

The petitioner is herby accorded a period of thirty (30) days from the date of this notice to offer evidence in support of the petition and in opposition to the proposed revocation.

 

Examples of evidence are as follows: passport and airline tickets showing that the petitioner and the beneficiary were in the same place at the same time since November 2006; evidence of residence together; correspondence showering names and dates; pictures with a date imprinted of them; insurance policies, etc.

-----

 

 

The words in bold throws the sentence off. They are not correct. That's why I question it. USCIS better hire better letter writers if that is what they send!

 

edit: Okay, I can understand if the person who received the letter typed it out for others to view. It would be easy to make type-o's but not knowing that throws suspicion on it. I should've been a visa officer!...

Edited May 22, 2009 by samsong (see edit history)

[Randy W]

The following is a list of some of the key points from the intent to revoke letter:

 

1. The record shows that the approval of this petition was based upon the petitioner¡¯s marriage to the beneficiary. However, the USCIS has received information regarding the beneficiary¡¯s qualification for the classification sought. That information consists of the following:

 

2.The petitioner and the beneficiary married during to the first visit by the petitioner to China, shortly after the petitioner¡¯s arrival.

 

3. The beneficiary stated under oath that they did not have a wedding banquet, which is very important in Chinese culture. The lack of a banquet raises doubts about the bona fides of the marriage.

 

4. The pictures submitted as evidence of a relationship have been taken over the course of a few days. The petitioner submitted evidence of remittances to the beneficiary of the $2000 wired transfer, while his income for 2006 is approximately $7000. No proof was provided to show that this business income came from a legitimate employer.

 

5. Based on the foregoing, it appears that the marriage between the petitioner and the beneficiary was conducted primarily to circumvent immigration laws.

 

These five points seem to be the meat of the issue. If you view it as a "reasonable" person without attempting to make a favorable or unfavorable conclusion, it is not too difficult to see how this case could be viewed this way.

 

I think it important to retain legal counsel for this one. If the petitioner doesn't have the funds, then he will have to do it himself.

 

The other thing that comes to mind, is income only should not be the soul method of determining poverty level. Anyone could have a bunch of cash stashed away.

 

 

ShaQ - you've mentioned the "has received" quote a couple of times. I believe they are simply meaning that they "have received" it from GUZ. GUZ is simply a third party to these proceedings, and is actually not involved at all. This, they cannot be cross-examined or questioned.

 

That's part of why I feel it's a slam dunk if you simply show up for the hearing to claim a valid relationship.

 

Assets are of course allowed on the Affidavit of Support - it is the petitioner's responsibility to list and document these assets. An accountant can help here, if needed

 

In the past, the advice on CFL has been to NOT supply unnecessary documents - now they are demanding them.

[Henry and Mei]

It is very clear that we certainly have no right in bringing someone from another soil here to be with us simply because we want....and rightly so.

 

So basically, we are guilty until proven innocent as far as immigration law is concerned. Becoming a hard truth......to many.

 

But these are family and marriage based visas and not business and work type visas.

 

For the business/work visas, I would think there is no need for emotion and sentimentality, but if I was a VO looking at the visas we discuss here, you bet your butt, I am looking for some emotion....

 

Otherwise, you are looking at something more like a business or work visa or simply a marriage of convenience or worse......

 

And when they see unexplained money floating around, it is easy to see and show that they are thinking/looking - fraud.

 

IMO going through the process, you need a good mix here. Both emotion and practical.

 

Some petitioners seem nonchalant.......lack of emotion......lack of visa.

 

That also shows in preparation and presenting the case. If you really love this person and wish to responsibly spend the rest of your life with them, you are going to show emotion and do everything in your power to help them succeed to receive their visa....

 

I think the VO will clearly see it and look for it. I know that I would....which is back to what a reasonable person would perceive.

 

And I simply agree that it comes down to the relationship being real and true "bona fide" and financials. The whole petition should focus on this. You know the target, so aim at it and hit it....taking your BEST shot.

[cjr818]

I am posting on behalf of a CFL member who is having problems posting and will need to wait for the admin's to look at it. In the mean time, I offered to post his urgent issue.

 

Since he cannot post right now, he may not answer any questions for a while !!

 

--------------------------

for CFL member DavidLuo

--------------------------

 

First of all I would like to say our CR1 cases have been denial on 4-3-2008 do not have a bona fides relationship. After the case were denial and kick it back to the states side, I have did a refilling IR-1 on 1/23/2009, received NOA1 on 2/9/2009 and also NOA2 on 4/21/2009. The cases were sent to NVC for processing AOS paid online on 5/14/2009 IV paid online on 5/19/2009 received both cover letters. Now this part I really need some advice from the CFL experts and I really don¡¯t know what to do. 3 days after I pay all the NVC bills, ¡°Notice of Intent to Revoke letter¡± came into my mail box should I reply the letter and continues working on our 2nd filling while it still at NVC? After all my AOS and IV fee have been paid USCIS ¨C California Service Center have send me a Notice of Action ¡° Intent to Revoke Processing¡± here is the letter from CSC contains:

 

 

NOTICE OF INTENT TO REVOKE

 

 

This notice is in reference to the Petition for Alien Relative that was filed by the petitioner pursuant to section 201( of the Immigration & Nationality Act, as amended. The petition was filed in behalf [sLL] and approved by the Director of the California Service Center, U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) on 03/28/2007.

 

On June 12, 2008 the American Consulate in Guangzhou returned the petition to the USCIS for further review and action.

 

The record shows that the approval of this petition was based upon the petitioner¡¯s marriage to the beneficiary. However, the USCIS has received information regarding the beneficiary¡¯s qualification for the classification sought. That information consists of the following:

 

The petitioner and the beneficiary married during to the first visit by the petitioner to China, shortly after the petitioner¡¯s arrival. The beneficiary stated under oath that they did not have a wedding banquet, which is very important in Chinese culture. The lack of a banquet raises doubts about the bona fides of the marriage. The pictures submitted as evidence of a relationship have been taken over the course of a few days. The petitioner submitted evidence of remittances to the beneficiary of the $2000 wired transfer, while his income for 2006 is approximately $7000. No proof was provided to show that this business income came from a legitimate employer.

 

Based on the foregoing, it appears that the marriage between the petitioner and the beneficiary was conducted primarily to circumvent immigration laws. ¡°Good and sufficient cause¡± exists in the present case which supports the commencement of revocation proceedings.

 

In Matter of Laureano, 19 I&N Dec. 1 (BIA 1983), the Board help that a marriage entered into for the primary purpose of circumventing the immigration laws, referred to as a fraudulent or sham marriage, is not recognized for the purpose of obtaining immigration benefits.

 

In Matter of Estime, 19 I&N Dec. 450 (BIA 1987), the Board help that a notice of intention to revoke approval of a visa petition is not properly issued unless there is ¡°good and sufficient cause¡±. The Board also help that ¡°Good and sufficient cause¡± for issuing such a notice exists when the evidence of record at the time of issuance, if unexplained and unrebutted, would warrant a denial.

 

In Mater of Ho, 19 I&N Dec. 582 (BIA 1988) , the Board help that the petitioner bears the burden in visa petition revocation proceedings of establishing that the beneficiary qualifies for the benefit sought under the immigration laws.

 

In accordance with 8 C.F.R. 205.2, the USCIS proposes to revoke the petition.

The petitioner is herby accorded a period of thirty (30) days from the date of this notice to offer evidence in support of the petition and in opposition to the proposed revocation.

 

Examples of evidence are as follows: passport and airline tickets showing that the petitioner and the beneficiary were in the same place at the same time since November 2006; evidence of residence together; correspondence showering names and dates; pictures with a date imprinted of them; insurance policies, etc.

 

Note: These are just examples.

 

Lack of a response to this notice within the time allotted will result in the revocation of the petition.

 

All foreign language documents must be submitted with complete English translations. The translator must certify that the translation is complete and accurate, and that he or she is competent to translate.

 

 

 

Christina Poulos

Director

 

 

Thanks,

Davidluo

 

 

I see alot of red flags that raises concerns over issuing a visa here. One of the things is the short time frame in which the meeting for the first time took place and wedding without ceremony, another issue with his low income, even well below the poverty guidelines, third is the short period of pictures taken, it appears to the VO that pictures were taken to rush and cram of pictures taken together for the purposes of only demonstrating it for the visa interview. Here's a suggestion for the pictures, if you are going to take pictures, take them over a long period of time, you don't need to take 50 pictures a day during a 3 month vacation. Let's say you meet your SO online, and he/she sends you a first picture, great save that and print it. On your first trip to meet each other, take some more pictures together. If you happen to travel around China together that will be better, take some more pictures a few of each will be fine. If you have family together, get together and take a few of those, and on your return home, have some taken as well.

 

On your additional trips, take more pictures of your trip, on arrival, family dinners/lunch/parties/gatherings, it will be better to have the same people in the pictures, in random poses, so it is not rehearsed.

 

When it is time to file your visa application, you will already have a concrete case of a real relationship. The pictures that you took will already show a good time of when and how you met. Your VO will look through the pictures and it will show two single people, two people meeting pictures taken together, acceptance by the family, i.e., family gathering/dinner pictures, tours around China, vacation pictures will demonstrate the ability and acceptance of one another into each other's lives, that you two do get along together.

 

Also in your pictures taken over a long period of time, it will show how you two and the family has aged and matured, this will help you ensure a troublefree interview and avoid the dreaded blue/white slips.

 

Good luck.

[Stepbrow]

I think it important to not over-complicate issues by providing too many areas with what would likely be the same information that's available. It just cannot be emphasized enough, that BEFORE anyone considers taking on the huge task of marriage-based immigration, that they get their ducks in a row.

We've talked this for about 3 years... but it doesn't take...

 

Most here have already filed... so it's too late on some levels. Most "rush to file; rush to marry; rush to get her here".

 

I'm always surprised at how emotional the USCs are and how they lack planning for such an important lifetime issue... As if the US govt owes them the right to bring a loved one here;

 

Here is the truth: You may lover her and you may believe you have every right to bring her here... but your wrong. YOu can marry whoever you want; you can live where ever you may try; but you CANNOT bring into the US whoever you want.

 

People need to wake up from their dream world and realize that filing for an alien to immigrate to the US is serious business... Not a love business.

 

You need drop your sentimentality when it comes to filing and figure out how best to present your case. Anything less is simply naive.

 

 

 

 

I think Dave's ideas here should be pinned, and designated "READ THIS FIRST"