member case denied - DavidLuo

[samsong]

The only red flag I really see is the wired money. That has been discussed here many times as not a good idea to do. It can, and will raise suspicions.

The other so-called red flags are thin and flimsy. They can be easily argued.

 

 

The red flag here was sending $2000 out of $7000 (but unproved) income for the year.

 

Sending support money to your wife is generally a good idea - for K-1's, not so good.

Other red flag is:

 

"The petitioner and the beneficiary married during to the first visit by the petitioner to China, shortly after the petitioner¡¯s arrival."

 

Depending on evidence and evolution of relationship before first trip to China this is a Red-Flag.

 

If there was little or no courtship before marriage this is a problem.

I married on my first trip to China, w/o a banquet. It was no red flag for me that's why I totally disagree with that and I'm sure there are many who do the same. So that accusation does'nt hold water with me.

[Randy W]

The only red flag I really see is the wired money. That has been discussed here many times as not a good idea to do. It can, and will raise suspicions.

The other so-called red flags are thin and flimsy. They can be easily argued.

 

 

The red flag here was sending $2000 out of $7000 (but unproved) income for the year.

 

Sending support money to your wife is generally a good idea - for K-1's, not so good.

Other red flag is:

 

"The petitioner and the beneficiary married during to the first visit by the petitioner to China, shortly after the petitioner¡¯s arrival."

 

Depending on evidence and evolution of relationship before first trip to China this is a Red-Flag.

 

If there was little or no courtship before marriage this is a problem.

I married on my first trip to China, w/o a banquet. It was no red flag for me that's why I totally disagree with that and I'm sure there are many who do the same. So that accusation does'nt hold water with me.

Just to clarify, what Sam and I said was strictly about the money red flag.

[Guest ShaQuaNew]

The following is a list of some of the key points from the intent to revoke letter:

 

1. The record shows that the approval of this petition was based upon the petitioner¡¯s marriage to the beneficiary. However, the USCIS has received information regarding the beneficiary¡¯s qualification for the classification sought. That information consists of the following:

 

2.The petitioner and the beneficiary married during to the first visit by the petitioner to China, shortly after the petitioner¡¯s arrival.

 

3. The beneficiary stated under oath that they did not have a wedding banquet, which is very important in Chinese culture. The lack of a banquet raises doubts about the bona fides of the marriage.

 

4. The pictures submitted as evidence of a relationship have been taken over the course of a few days. The petitioner submitted evidence of remittances to the beneficiary of the $2000 wired transfer, while his income for 2006 is approximately $7000. No proof was provided to show that this business income came from a legitimate employer.

 

5. Based on the foregoing, it appears that the marriage between the petitioner and the beneficiary was conducted primarily to circumvent immigration laws.

 

These five points seem to be the meat of the issue. If you view it as a "reasonable" person without attempting to make a favorable or unfavorable conclusion, it is not too difficult to see how this case could be viewed this way.

 

I think it important to retain legal counsel for this one. If the petitioner doesn't have the funds, then he will have to do it himself.

 

The other thing that comes to mind, is income only should not be the soul method of determining poverty level. Anyone could have a bunch of cash stashed away.

Edited May 21, 2009 by ShaQuaNew (see edit history)

[Guest jin979]

The only red flag I really see is the wired money. That has been discussed here many times as not a good idea to do. It can, and will raise suspicions.

The other so-called red flags are thin and flimsy. They can be easily argued.

 

 

The red flag here was sending $2000 out of $7000 (but unproved) income for the year.

 

Sending support money to your wife is generally a good idea - for K-1's, not so good.

Other red flag is:

 

"The petitioner and the beneficiary married during to the first visit by the petitioner to China, shortly after the petitioner’s arrival."

 

Depending on evidence and evolution of relationship before first trip to China this is a Red-Flag.

 

If there was little or no courtship before marriage this is a problem.

I married on my first trip to China, w/o a banquet. It was no red flag for me that's why I totally disagree with that and I'm sure there are many who do the same. So that accusation does'nt hold water with me.

 

 

BUT USCIS STATE IN THEIR LETTER IT WAS FOR THEM

 

you need to adress each point made in the letter

Edited May 21, 2009 by jin979 (see edit history)

[david_dawei]

FYI: I edited out her name from the original post and the quoted reply.

 

if DavidLuo wants to PM me some answers to the previous posts, I will post them if I'm still online.

 

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We don't have alot of background info at this point.

 

If the refiling doesn't address the concerns from the first petition filing, it may be heading to the same conclusion...

 

I don't think there is any one flag which breaks this case, but as Randy said, the overall picture presented lacked some support in the evidence submitted.

 

Here is a recap of what I'm seeing and hearing... part of my reason to state the below is that some of the items clearly occur before the petition submission and should get clarified with the petition... so this may be helpful for those reading who are preparing to file.

 

1. Marriage, on first visit, quick after arrival - we don't know the length of courtship prior; when was the 'marriage' decided in the first place? How quickly after first chats?

 

Evidence needed: An evolution of relationship should explain this and should of been with the petition. Optionally consider some chat logs or emails which help to establish the length of the courtship.

 

2. Lack of Banquet - Was this her first marriage? If yes, the lack of a banquet should really be explained since it is *generally* important.

 

Evidence needed: An evolution of relationship should explain this and should of been with the petition.

 

3. Pictures submitted - submitted when? It's not unusually to submit pictures with the petition and if you file after the first trip. If they looked at pictures at the interview which seem to suggest the same time period as the petition pictures, then I see the point (ie: no second trip appeared to occur since no pictures are from a subsequent trip).

 

Evidence needed: At petition, submit what pictures you can and vary locations; show family too. At interview, have pictures of subsequent trips.

 

4. Money - problems from money issues come in many ways; one member already showed someone with alot of money denied. Sending money is not an issue; but submitting it as evidence has caused some people when it doesn't "add up" in the bigger financial scheme. Realize that some evidence needs supporting evidence and this is seen nowhere greater than with financials. Consider the I-134; this as evidence is only as strong as the supporting evidence like taxes and employer letter.

 

A long time back (maybe 2005 or earlier), GUZ used to have on one of the documents to provide any money transfer activity between the couple. This always seemed to me to be a ruse on some level; since to submit it could work against the case. It always seemed generally safer to just not submit that as evidence, regardless of your martial status.

 

Evidence needed: If you sent money prior to the petition submission and want to send that with the petition... be clear about it in the evolution of relationship letter. If you sent money during the visa process then there is usually no way for GUZ to know this without asking it at the interview. If asked if money were sent, and you plan to say "yes", I would only do so by having a letter prepared in advance which explains it.

 

One thing we have seen many times is that the VO will not accept an evolution of relationship letter at the interview, or does not ask for certain financials. Realize that if the VO asks a question which is best answered with letters or documents, that the answer can be, "this letter explains it.. or these financials here support source of the income".

 

If not too much money was made in a year prior to a petition submission, then how did the petitioner travel? On what funds? This can easily be addressed in an evolution of letter with the petition.

 

Proving some of this later at the interview can be difficult since sometimes it is not even asked for by the VO. I have in the past advised some to know how to 'slip in' information, since the VO may not directly ask for it. Another thread could be written on this subtle issue alone.

[david_dawei]

I married on my first trip to China, w/o a banquet. It was no red flag for me that's why I totally disagree with that and I'm sure there are many who do the same. So that accusation does'nt hold water with me.

Don't fall victim to looking at one issue in isolation of an entire case. A case by case review is needed to see if one warrants a different outcome.

 

But we also pretty much know that one VO decides differently than another...

 

so there can be factors outside of evaluating the case on its' own merits but that is at least what each of us must do PRIOR to submitting a petition and at every step leading up to the interview.

[david_dawei]

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From DavidLuo

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First meet in Mar. 2006 and chatted until Nov when I made a trip to China. We spent 3 weeks together and then got married because we fell in love and wanted a future together.

 

Wired transfer to my wife the money was never wired transfer it was cashier check that i had gave her.

[samsong]

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From DavidLuo

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First meet in Mar. 2006 and chatted until Nov when I made a trip to China. We spent 3 weeks together and then got married because we fell in love and wanted a future together.

 

Wired transfer to my wife the money was never wired transfer it was cashier check that i had gave her.

It says in the initial post/letter- "The petitioner submitted evidence of remittances to the beneficiary of the $2000 wired transfer."

 

Is the immigration letter posted verbatim?

[samsong]

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From DavidLuo

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First meet in Mar. 2006 and chatted until Nov when I made a trip to China. We spent 3 weeks together and then got married because we fell in love and wanted a future together.

 

Wired transfer to my wife the money was never wired transfer it was cashier check that i had gave her.

It says in the initial post/letter- "The petitioner submitted evidence of remittances to the beneficiary of the $2000 wired transfer."

 

Is the immigration letter posted verbatim?

No, it doesn't look like it. The sentence structuring is off after re-reading it. So why is the wiring of money mentioned in the letter if we are now told that it never happend?

 

Pardon my questioning. I've seem to have gotten tied up by this one. It will pass.

[Tom and Ling]

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From DavidLuo

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First meet in Mar. 2006 and chatted until Nov when I made a trip to China. We spent 3 weeks together and then got married because we fell in love and wanted a future together.

 

Well,,Ling and I met in Aug.2007 and March 6th,2008 we were married in China.,,However, I covered the courtship time in my letter of Evolution of Relationship.

 

 

Wired transfer to my wife the money was never wired transfer it was cashier check that i had gave her.

If it was $2000.00 given to his wife and his income was $7000.00,,I think this would be a real problem since it comes out to 1/3 of his total annual income

 

Tom and Ling

 

 

[Guest ShaQuaNew]

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From DavidLuo

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First meet in Mar. 2006 and chatted until Nov when I made a trip to China. We spent 3 weeks together and then got married because we fell in love and wanted a future together.

 

Well,,Ling and I met in Aug.2007 and March 6th,2008 we were married in China.,,However, I covered the courtship time in my letter of Evolution of Relationship.

 

 

Wired transfer to my wife the money was never wired transfer it was cashier check that i had gave her.

If it was $2000.00 given to his wife and his income was $7000.00,,I think this would be a real problem since it comes out to 1/3 of his total annual income

 

Tom and Ling

 

 

 

 

This is a good point, as the government wants to see documented evidence regarding:

 

THE EVOLUTION OF THE RELATIONSHIP

 

It's a good idea to compose a letter that discusses how you met, and then reference supporting documents like email, photographs, receipts, and stuff like that, to illustrate clearly how you met, got close, fell in love, and then married.

[HKG]

You could contact Marc Ellis an immigration attorney. marcellislaw@gmail.com

[LeeFisher3]

This is the situation we were warned about by Marc Ellis.

 

See the following post and links: Course of Action, What to do?

[Tom and Ling]

FYI: I edited out her name from the original post and the quoted reply.

 

if DavidLuo wants to PM me some answers to the previous posts, I will post them if I'm still online.

 

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Proving some of this later at the interview can be difficult since sometimes it is not even asked for by the VO. I have in the past advised some to know how to 'slip in' information, since the VO may not directly ask for it. Another thread could be written on this subtle issue alone.

 

Hi David and ALL,

 

The way I handled this topic "Another thread could be written on this subtle issue alone" is that I took an updated Letter of Evolution of Marital Relationship and had it Notarized at ACS,,and I still think that they scanned the letter.

At Lings interview I folded the updated Letter of Evolution of Marital Relationship long wise and placed it in my Passport that Ling was to hand to the VO. Now the VO is not obligated to read the letter,but I think our VO was curious and pulled it out and read it.

This is one way of offering the Letter of Evolution at the interview and another way maybe to have things notarized at ACS.

I also had my I-134 notarized at ACS and they never asked to see the I-134,,so I think they scanned my notarized papers at ACS and didn't ask for them because they knew about my I-134...just my feeling.

 

Tom and Ling

[david_dawei]

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From DavidLuo

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First meet in Mar. 2006 and chatted until Nov when I made a trip to China. We spent 3 weeks together and then got married because we fell in love and wanted a future together.

 

Wired transfer to my wife the money was never wired transfer it was cashier check that i had gave her.

It says in the initial post/letter- "The petitioner submitted evidence of remittances to the beneficiary of the $2000 wired transfer."

 

Is the immigration letter posted verbatim?

 

 

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From DavidLuo

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Quote samsong "Is the immigration letter posted verbatim?" The immigration letter are word for word.