Zhao Ziyang

[chilton747]

Noun 1. apologist - a person who argues to defend or justify some policy or institution;

 

Seems some have misconstrued the meaning of the term while others have justified my use of it.

 

Howz about that Bubbas, Iz done lernt me a new word! Thanks Dave!!

[samsong]

Jin thinks he was chinas best leader.

My wife thinks so too. She remembers Zhao Ziyang. She also remembers Deng Xiaping. She says that Mao Zedong had Deng put in prison several times but later let him out because he liked him.

 

Good Story, thanks for posting it.

[chilton747]

Jin thinks he was chinas best leader.

My wife thinks so too. She remembers Zhao Ziyang. She also remembers Deng Xiaping. She says that Mao Zedong had Deng put in prison several times but later let him out because he liked him.

 

Good Story, thanks for posting it.

 

You might want to check out the documentary "China, A Century of Revolution." It's six hours cover the time periods of 1911 - 1990s.

[whome?]

Noun 1. apologist - a person who argues to defend or justify some policy or institution;

 

Seems some have misconstrued the meaning of the term while others have justified my use of it.

 

Most people just use the more understood definition of the term apology:

 

An apology is a justification or defense of an act or idea, from the Greek apologia (¦Á¦Ð¦Ï¦Ë¦Ï¦Ãί¦Á). An apology can also be an expression of contrition and remorse for something done wrong.

[Guest jin979]

he was a leader for the common people who did many good things and fought for them against the party and established power, David lets see if your man does the same here over time, exil or compromise.

[IllinoisDave]

Noun 1. apologist - a person who argues to defend or justify some policy or institution;

 

Seems some have misconstrued the meaning of the term while others have justified my use of it.

 

Most people just use the more understood definition of the term apology:

 

An apology is a justification or defense of an act or idea, from the Greek apologia (απολογία). An apology can also be an expression of contrition and remorse for something done wrong.

Read my post again. Read the definition again. Apologist is exactly the word I meant to use.

[IllinoisDave]

he was a leader for the common people who did many good things and fought for them against the party and established power, David lets see if your man does the same here over time, exil or compromise.

For crying out loud! I"m arguing in the guy's favor!

 

Read my post:

The CCP smear machine is no doubt being gassed and oiled up as we speak. And I'm sure it won't take long for the apologists to come out of the woodwork to help it along.

 

Since the attempt to be less contentious with my original post obviously didn't work I guess I'll just have to spell out my meaning. I'm saying that if/when Zhao's book starts to get more publicity, the CCP will no doubt come out and try to discredit him by smearing his character any way they can and by shifting the focus from what they did in Tiananmen and subsequently to him to the old argument about them being able to to anything they want to keep "civil control."

 

And then I said that it wouldn't take long for people to help them in that effort by defending the CCP position and justifying their actions.

 

We'll have to wait and see on the first point but the second has already been borne out, at least here in this thread.

 

As for "my man", are you referring to President Obama? He's not my man, he's the President of the United States. And I'm not really sure why you chose to include him in this discussion, as he has nothing to do with it.

[usagroom]

I just picked up a copy of "PRISONER OF THE STATE" at Barnes and Noble!

[Guest Tony n Terrific]

he was a leader for the common people who did many good things and fought for them against the party and established power, David lets see if your man does the same here over time, exil or compromise.

For crying out loud! I"m arguing in the guy's favor!

 

Read my post:

The CCP smear machine is no doubt being gassed and oiled up as we speak. And I'm sure it won't take long for the apologists to come out of the woodwork to help it along.

 

Since the attempt to be less contentious with my original post obviously didn't work I guess I'll just have to spell out my meaning. I'm saying that if/when Zhao's book starts to get more publicity, the CCP will no doubt come out and try to discredit him by smearing his character any way they can and by shifting the focus from what they did in Tiananmen and subsequently to him to the old argument about them being able to to anything they want to keep "civil control."

 

And then I said that it wouldn't take long for people to help them in that effort by defending the CCP position and justifying their actions.

 

We'll have to wait and see on the first point but the second has already been borne out, at least here in this thread.

 

As for "my man", are you referring to President Obama? He's not my man, he's the President of the United States. And I'm not really sure why you chose to include him in this discussion, as he has nothing to do with it.

Obama is my man although I never voted for him. He is my President right or wrong Obama is the President of the USA and he deserves our support until he proves otherwise. That being said. China is a closed society and they are not going to give credence to a liberal democratic politcal reformer. No way in hell.

[usagroom]

http://images.barnesandnoble.com/images/39250000/39254876.JPG

 

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Prisoner-...39149386/?itm=1

Synopsis

¡°Zhao may be more dangerous in death than he was in life.¡±

¡ªTime

 

How often can you peek behind the curtains of one of the most secretive governments in the world? Prisoner of the State is the first book to give readers a front row seat to the secret inner workings of China¡¯s government. It is the story of Premier Zhao Ziyang, the man who brought liberal change to that nation and who, at the height of the Tiananmen Square protests in 1989, tried to stop the massacre and was dethroned for his efforts.

 

When China¡¯s army moved in, killing hundreds of students and other demonstrators, Zhao was placed under house arrest at his home on a quiet alley in Beijing. China¡¯s most promising change agent had been disgraced, along with the policies he stood for. The premier spent the last sixteen years of his life, up until his death in 2005, in seclusion. An occasional detail about his life would slip out: reports of a golf excursion, a photo of his aging visage, a leaked letter to China¡¯s leaders. But China scholars often lamented that Zhao never had his final say.

 

As it turns out, Zhao did produce a memoir in complete secrecy. He methodically recorded his thoughts and recollections on what had happened behind the scenes during many of modern China¡¯s most critical moments. The tapes he produced were smuggled out of the country and form the basis for Prisoner of the State. In this audio journal, Zhao provides intimate details about the Tiananmen crackdown; he describes the ploys and double crosses China's top leaders use to gain advantage over one another; and he talks of the necessity for China to adopt democracy in order to achieve long-term stability.

 

The China that Zhao portrays is not some long-lost dynasty. It is today¡¯s China, where the nation¡¯s leaders accept economic freedom but continue to resist political change. If Zhao had survived¡ªthat is, if the hard-line hadn¡¯t prevailed during Tiananmen¡ªhe might have been able to steer China¡¯s political system toward more openness and tolerance. Zhao¡¯s call to begin lifting the Party's control over China's life¡ªto let a little freedom into the public square¡ªis remarkable coming from a man who had once dominated that square. Although Zhao now speaks from the grave in this moving and riveting memoir, his voice has the moral power to make China sit up and listen.

 

ZHAO AT TIANANMEN BEFORE THE MASSACRE

¡°I was trying to persuade them to end the hunger strike . . . I felt it was a waste for these young students to end their lives like this. [The students could not] imagine the treatment in store for them.¡±

 

ZHAO ON EVADING HIS JAILERS

¡°After I played at Chang Ping Golf Course, the news was released . . . Both Jiang Zemin and Li Peng became extremely anxious. They condemned the decision and began an investigation to find out who had allowed me to go out to play golf.¡±

 

ZHAO ON HOW CHINA MUST CHANGE

¡°Not only should [China] implement a market economy, it must also adopt a parliamentary democracy as its political system.¡±

[chilton747]

Thanks for the heads up. Now if I can talk my wife into letting me buy it. My wife had several friends that went to Bejing during that demonstration. I am somewhat startled at some of the things she told me. I will comment on them later after I understand her better.

[NewDay2006]

Thanks for the heads up. Now if I can talk my wife into letting me buy it. My wife had several friends that went to Bejing during that demonstration. I am somewhat startled at some of the things she told me. I will comment on them later after I understand her better.

Please do share the information you recieve Brother. I do have much curiosty about this. I must say at the time of the Tank Man, I didn't have much knowledge of what was going on. I did see him there , but I never searched for a reason. Even now, I have just in the last year searched to find maybe hundreds were killed. The Tank guy was a very brave young man who stood up for his commitment for his society. HE could have died on National TV.

[Joanne]

Zhao may be a good person, but he failed as a politician.

 

He is partially the cause of the June 4 incident, in my opinion. If anyone who experience the who episode, you might have remembered the months. The protects across the country started a month or two before June 4. Chinese government had been trying to keep the protests calm and violence free for that long. I was a young teacher at the university. So I knew both sides. Emotionally, I was totally with the students, we went to the street with them to protest. On the other hand I was also aware of the principles the officials held concerning the protests. It was basically: Students have good intentions. Let them vent, but safety first. Eventually, it was close to the time that many students would leave school for the summer. We all experienced that things became quieter and quieter. Zhao's coming out to visit students at the Tian An Men square did in fact light up people's enthusiasm again which brought forth an uncontrollable wave of protests.

 

Zhao might have known this. He might have felt guilty all the years later. He might realized that he unintentionaly made a mistake along that political decision process.

 

I was with the student during those months in 1989. During the first month after I arrived US in 1991, I spend hours researching in a US university library looking for evidents to support my accusation of Chinese government. What I found was not what I sought for.

 

I remember writing my view on CFL almost every year approaching June 4 since I joined. I am tired of this topic. But I hate to have people mislead by the media who loves sensational topics.

 

I have no doubt the publication of this book about Zhao is funded by organizations supported by anti-China.... I have a relative who is an activist in one of those groups. That is how he makes a living. We are just common people, don't try to make sense of the world of politics. If you want to be a politician, you need to learn more to be a good one.

 

If you are not born to condemn or be biased agains certain group, please stand back and observe from different angles of an issue.

Edited May 28, 2009 by Joanne (see edit history)

[NewDay2006]

Zhao may be a good person, but he failed as a politician.

 

He is partially the cause of the June 4 incident, in my opinion. If anyone who experience the who episode, you might have remembered the months. The protects across the country started a month or two before June 4. Chinese government had been trying to keep the protests calm and violence free for that long. I was a young teacher at the university. So I knew both sides. Emotionally, I was totally with the students, we went to the street with them to protest. On the other hand I was also aware of the principles the officials held concerning the protests. It was basically: Students have good intentions. Let them vent, but safety first. Eventually, it was close to the time that many students would leave school for the summer. We all experienced that things became quieter and quieter. Zhao's coming out to visit students at the Tian An Men square did in fact light up people's enthusiasm again which brought forth an uncontrollable wave of protests.

 

Zhao might have known this. He might have felt guilty all the years later. He might realized that he unintentionaly made a mistake along that political decision process.

 

I was with the student during those months in 1989. During the first month after I arrived US in 1991, I spend hours researching in a US university library looking for evidents to support my accusation of Chinese government. What I found was not what I sought for.

 

I remember writing my view on CFL almost every year approaching June 4 since I joined. I am tired of this topic. But I hate to have people mislead by the media who loves sensational topics.

 

I have no doubt the publication of this book about Zhao is funded by organizations supported by anti-China.... I have a relative who is an activist in one of those groups. That is how he makes a living. We are just common people, don't try to make sense of the world of politics. If you want to be a politician, you need to learn more to be a good one.

 

If you are not born to condemn or be biased agains certain group, please stand back and observe from different angles of an issue.

Great post Joanne!! , I don't want to be a politician, but I'm glad to hear your perspective on the matter. I can no more judge China's leaders point of view than I can your view of the matter. I never had to live in that climate as you did. You were there and I respect your comments. i think standing back and observing from different angles is good advice.

 

Personally I could compare some of what went on in China to the climate in this country over the past 200-300 years from my point of view of my 45 years or so, but that is not what this thread or forum is here for.

 

Thanks for your point of view.

Edited May 28, 2009 by NewDay2006 (see edit history)

[whome?]

he was a leader for the common people who did many good things and fought for them against the party and established power, David lets see if your man does the same here over time, exil or compromise.

For crying out loud! I"m arguing in the guy's favor!

 

Read my post:

The CCP smear machine is no doubt being gassed and oiled up as we speak. And I'm sure it won't take long for the apologists to come out of the woodwork to help it along.

 

Since the attempt to be less contentious with my original post obviously didn't work I guess I'll just have to spell out my meaning. I'm saying that if/when Zhao's book starts to get more publicity, the CCP will no doubt come out and try to discredit him by smearing his character any way they can and by shifting the focus from what they did in Tiananmen and subsequently to him to the old argument about them being able to to anything they want to keep "civil control."

 

And then I said that it wouldn't take long for people to help them in that effort by defending the CCP position and justifying their actions.

 

We'll have to wait and see on the first point but the second has already been borne out, at least here in this thread.

 

As for "my man", are you referring to President Obama? He's not my man, he's the President of the United States. And I'm not really sure why you chose to include him in this discussion, as he has nothing to do with it.

 

No need to explain .. we knew exactly what the smart$$s statement was about ..... and Jin's point was there are plenty of what you like to call apologists in the US government