Plagerism

[griz326]

I was reviewing my daughter's scholarship essay today and found 4 sentences directly lifted from a university website. The fact that I found the source used to plagiarize was completely accidental, but I could distinguish the level of language skill and immediately became suspect.

 

Rather than make a big deal of it, here is how I handled it: I told her that when I started as a radio news guy I got most of my stories from the newspaper, but that legally I had to re-write the stories before I used them on the radio. ...and I said that if she re-wrote in her own words something someone else wrote it would be acceptable. I actually re-wrote the plagiarized sections with her watching and told her to use her own words to re-write what I wrote.

 

I think that yelling and screaming would only have brought tears, but this is a really important matter. This kid is working really hard, but I doubt they'll cut her any slack if she plagiarizes on a university assignment.

 

OYE! This parenting thing is tricky.

[weiaijiayou]

she's chinese?

it's good that you were attentive enough to spot it. she might not have realized how serious of an offense plagiarism is in the united states... good job

[dnoblett]

I too have to do this with my wife with her college assignments, for the most part she uses her own words, but if something is lifted from the web I tell her to either place it in quotes, foot note it and site the source. It's not plagiarism if it is marked and footnoted.

[george lee]

I too have to do this with my wife with her college assignments, for the most part she uses her own words, but if something is lifted from the web I tell her to either place it in quotes, foot note it and site the source. It's not plagiarism if it is marked and footnoted.

 

 

yes, thank god for quotes and foot notes, saved me couple paragraphs when i was in college.

[Christopher]

I was reviewing my daughter's scholarship essay today and found 4 sentences directly lifted from a university website. The fact that I found the source used to plagiarize was completely accidental, but I could distinguish the level of language skill and immediately became suspect.

 

Rather than make a big deal of it, here is how I handled it: I told her that when I started as a radio news guy I got most of my stories from the newspaper, but that legally I had to re-write the stories before I used them on the radio. ...and I said that if she re-wrote in her own words something someone else wrote it would be acceptable. I actually re-wrote the plagiarized sections with her watching and told her to use her own words to re-write what I wrote.

 

I think that yelling and screaming would only have brought tears, but this is a really important matter. This kid is working really hard, but I doubt they'll cut her any slack if she plagiarizes on a university assignment.

 

OYE! This parenting thing is tricky.

I suggest you revisit this later in a less pressured moment. Plagiarism is taken really seriously in the academic world, and kids need to know that they can get tossed out of school, etc, when they get caught.

 

In fact, many schools have special software they use to scan papers students hand in for plagiarism.

[Zhou Zhou]

Griz, I think you done good! I also think the other replies have much merit and good advice. ZZ

[Guest ShaQuaNew]

I was reviewing my daughter's scholarship essay today and found 4 sentences directly lifted from a university website. The fact that I found the source used to plagiarize was completely accidental, but I could distinguish the level of language skill and immediately became suspect.

 

Rather than make a big deal of it, here is how I handled it: I told her that when I started as a radio news guy I got most of my stories from the newspaper, but that legally I had to re-write the stories before I used them on the radio. ...and I said that if she re-wrote in her own words something someone else wrote it would be acceptable. I actually re-wrote the plagiarized sections with her watching and told her to use her own words to re-write what I wrote.

 

I think that yelling and screaming would only have brought tears, but this is a really important matter. This kid is working really hard, but I doubt they'll cut her any slack if she plagiarizes on a university assignment.

 

OYE! This parenting thing is tricky.

 

Plagiarism is the sincerest form of flattery. Really isn't much new under the sun, and it sounds like you handled this in a good way. It takes a long time to learn how to cut your teeth writing, and develop your own style; I'm not sure that many people ever really do. The best place to start, is getting information and format from other sources. Copying and pasting is fine, but you have to take the time to learn and absorb the content. After that, you can restructure the content, and make the appropriate changes. There is nothing wrong with using someone else's content, but you have to refrain and avoid using it word-for-word.

 

It's unrealistic to expect someone to sit and study for hours on end, and then at the right moment, start putting words to paper. Unless you're an absolute expert on the topic, there are very few people that actually begin that way in developing a successful piece.

[griz326]

I suggest you revisit this later in a less pressured moment. Plagiarism is taken really seriously in the academic world, and kids need to know that they can get tossed out of school, etc, when they get caught.

 

In fact, many schools have special software they use to scan papers students hand in for plagiarism.

 

 

Do you know if there is are any online demos of plagiarism detectors? It would be good to let her stuff be reviewed...and flagged to make a point. Ahhhh belay that request...the old man was being lazy:

 

EssayRater

 

Turnitin

 

Plagiarism detector

 

 

She does pay attention to what I say, but many times it's in one ear and out the other - just like all kids

 

The essay she showed me last night was very good and straight from her; it was easy to tell.

Edited April 29, 2009 by griz326 (see edit history)

[Christopher]

I suggest you revisit this later in a less pressured moment. Plagiarism is taken really seriously in the academic world, and kids need to know that they can get tossed out of school, etc, when they get caught.

 

In fact, many schools have special software they use to scan papers students hand in for plagiarism.

 

 

Do you know if there is are any online demos of plagiarism detectors? It would be good to let her stuff be reviewed...and flagged to make a point.

 

She does pay attention to what I say, but many times it's in one ear and out the other - just like all kids

 

The essay she showed me last night was very good and straight from her; it was easy to tell.

I found this site by googling "plagiarism detection software":

 

http://www.umuc.edu/distance/odell/cip/lin...shtml#detection

 

I'm pretty impressed, there's a *lot* of activity in the area.

[griz326]

Thanks Christopher...as you see...I edited my post when I thought about how lazy I was being...

 

[Mick]

I taught in a major Chinese University for five years and can say without a doubt that not only is plagerism condoned, it is encouraged. Students, except in classes taught by western teachers, were not required to footnote anything. In fact, each year there was a major competition in the English Department among the seniors. Each is required to write a graduation paper. I was absolutely mortified when I discovered how these things were judged.

 

Students were discouraged from using their own words. In fact, they were penalized for doing so. The "ideal" paper was one that was patched together from several sources, word for word, from whatever website the info came from. No footnotes were required.

 

Intellectual property is a foreign concept and certainly not a part of the general cultural environment. Two years that I was there, my students won the competition. However, they did not follow any of my guidelines. Instead, they copied everything, verbatim, from books and web sites. I read the winning papers and was mortified.

 

One year, in fact, two guys turned in the exact same paper, all plagerized. Both won third prize. I asked one of my professor friends how it was that two papers, identical to one another, was not considered suspect.

 

He told me that they understood that one of the two cheated, but to call them on it would cause them a loss of face in front of their peers. I then asked why they won third prize. I was told it was a "well researched paper" and showed that whichever student did the original copying from the web site, understood the guidelines, which stated that only "exact extended quotations from recognized scholars in the field would be acceptable." Students were also told to keep their personal interpretations to a minimum.

[IllinoisDave]

I taught in a major Chinese University for five years and can say without a doubt that not only is plagerism condoned, it is encouraged. Students, except in classes taught by western teachers, were not required to footnote anything. In fact, each year there was a major competition in the English Department among the seniors. Each is required to write a graduation paper. I was absolutely mortified when I discovered how these things were judged.

 

Students were discouraged from using their own words. In fact, they were penalized for doing so. The "ideal" paper was one that was patched together from several sources, word for word, from whatever website the info came from. No footnotes were required.

 

Intellectual property is a foreign concept and certainly not a part of the general cultural environment. Two years that I was there, my students won the competition. However, they did not follow any of my guidelines. Instead, they copied everything, verbatim, from books and web sites. I read the winning papers and was mortified.

 

One year, in fact, two guys turned in the exact same paper, all plagerized. Both won third prize. I asked one of my professor friends how it was that two papers, identical to one another, was not considered suspect.

 

He told me that they understood that one of the two cheated, but to call them on it would cause them a loss of face in front of their peers. I then asked why they won third prize. I was told it was a "well researched paper" and showed that whichever student did the original copying from the web site, understood the guidelines, which stated that only "exact extended quotations from recognized scholars in the field would be acceptable." Students were also told to keep their personal interpretations to a minimum.

That splains a lot.

Edited April 30, 2009 by IllinoisDave (see edit history)

[Guest ShaQuaNew]

I taught in a major Chinese University for five years and can say without a doubt that not only is plagerism condoned, it is encouraged. Students, except in classes taught by western teachers, were not required to footnote anything. In fact, each year there was a major competition in the English Department among the seniors. Each is required to write a graduation paper. I was absolutely mortified when I discovered how these things were judged.

 

Students were discouraged from using their own words. In fact, they were penalized for doing so. The "ideal" paper was one that was patched together from several sources, word for word, from whatever website the info came from. No footnotes were required.

 

Intellectual property is a foreign concept and certainly not a part of the general cultural environment. Two years that I was there, my students won the competition. However, they did not follow any of my guidelines. Instead, they copied everything, verbatim, from books and web sites. I read the winning papers and was mortified.

 

One year, in fact, two guys turned in the exact same paper, all plagerized. Both won third prize. I asked one of my professor friends how it was that two papers, identical to one another, was not considered suspect.

 

He told me that they understood that one of the two cheated, but to call them on it would cause them a loss of face in front of their peers. I then asked why they won third prize. I was told it was a "well researched paper" and showed that whichever student did the original copying from the web site, understood the guidelines, which stated that only "exact extended quotations from recognized scholars in the field would be acceptable." Students were also told to keep their personal interpretations to a minimum.

 

Mick, I believe that you are either currently, or have in the past been paid to write. Writers from the professional community can echo in unison that writing is not only a learned skill, but something that most Americans lack. I'm not talking the kind of writing that people do from Texting, sending email, or posting on Web sites like this, but the kind of writing needed to communicate information to a specific audience about a particular topic.

 

During the course of my career, I've noticed that vast numbers of people holding advanced degrees from major universities, fail to use proper grammar and syntax in their writing. You can find frequent shifting of voice in a single paragraph.

 

It's not hard to spot writing that wasn't created or carefully edited by an experienced author, as it's easy to spot subtle variations in writing style. It's sad to see in this day and age where it's so easy to find information on the internet, and then copy and paste it right into a document, without even quoting the author or source as you suggested by footnoting.

Edited April 30, 2009 by ShaQuaNew (see edit history)

[Mick]

I taught in a major Chinese University for five years and can say without a doubt that not only is plagerism condoned, it is encouraged. Students, except in classes taught by western teachers, were not required to footnote anything. In fact, each year there was a major competition in the English Department among the seniors. Each is required to write a graduation paper. I was absolutely mortified when I discovered how these things were judged.

 

Students were discouraged from using their own words. In fact, they were penalized for doing so. The "ideal" paper was one that was patched together from several sources, word for word, from whatever website the info came from. No footnotes were required.

 

Intellectual property is a foreign concept and certainly not a part of the general cultural environment. Two years that I was there, my students won the competition. However, they did not follow any of my guidelines. Instead, they copied everything, verbatim, from books and web sites. I read the winning papers and was mortified.

 

One year, in fact, two guys turned in the exact same paper, all plagerized. Both won third prize. I asked one of my professor friends how it was that two papers, identical to one another, was not considered suspect.

 

He told me that they understood that one of the two cheated, but to call them on it would cause them a loss of face in front of their peers. I then asked why they won third prize. I was told it was a "well researched paper" and showed that whichever student did the original copying from the web site, understood the guidelines, which stated that only "exact extended quotations from recognized scholars in the field would be acceptable." Students were also told to keep their personal interpretations to a minimum.

That splains a lot.

 

Mick, I believe that you are either currently, or have in the past been paid to write. Writers from the professional community can echo in unison that writing is not only a learned skill, but something that most Americans lack. I'm not talking the kind of writing that people do from Texting, sending email, or posting on Web sites like this, but the kind of writing needed to communicate information to a specific audience about a particular topic.

 

During the course of my career, I've noticed that vast numbers of people holding advanced degrees from major universities, fail to use proper grammar and syntax in their writing. You can find frequent shifting of voice in a single paragraph.

 

It's not hard to spot writing that wasn't created or carefully edited by an experienced author, as it's easy to spot subtle variations in writing style. It's sad to see in this day and age where it's so easy to find information on the internet, and then copy and paste it right into a document, without even quoting the author or source as you suggested by footnoting.

Yes, paid both currently as well as in the past. For writers, musicians, artists and the like, plagerism is like theft, pure and simple. You might as well stick your hand in my pocket and take whatever is there. However, this is not a commonly held belief in China, at least not when I was over there. Sure, they would pay lip service to intellectual property rights, but that's all it was - lip service.

 

I could go into more detail on this, but I don't want to get on a soap box here and it is not my intention to hijack this thread. In relation to the daugher in question at the beginning of the thread, perhaps she doesn't comprehend that plagerism is a bad thing. I am pretty sure her teachers in China didn't stress this as an issue. I could be wrong, but chances are it was rarely discussed.

[griz326]

. . . For writers, musicians, artists and the like, plagerism is like theft, pure and simple. You might as well stick your hand in my pocket and take whatever is there. However, this is not a commonly held belief in China . . .

 

In relation to the daugher in question at the beginning of the thread, perhaps she doesn't comprehend that plagerism is a bad thing. I am pretty sure her teachers in China didn't stress this as an issue. I could be wrong, but chances are it was rarely discussed.

 

It is good to know the Chinese approach to plagiarism; I'll have my work cut out for me.

 

However, "plagiarism" is gaining ground within US corporations, my company calls the initiative "write once, use many." While what I write is a company asset and the company's to use however it chooses, some of our technical documentation resembles a Chinese term paper based on the descriptions above with cut and paste from many technical writers.