Chinese people need to be controlled

[Guest ShaQuaNew]

I doubt he would be so successful if he was mainland Chinese and had been controlled ....

mainlander or not, his upbringing was probably harsher than most mainlanders.

 

so what control are talking about ... control of the people by the government or control by the parents. I did not see that he explained what he meant by control.

I think it's a complex comment by JC and an equally complex answer.. maybe not one I can really explain, although I feel the point of it.

 

He only made a comment about 'control' and 'freedom'; it's not as simple as saying, by the government or parents; one would have to add in; culture, history, relationships, medicine, philosophy, ethics, etc... I think he knew that and those that applauded.

 

To me, chinese culture is a web of all these factors which seek to direct people about all aspects of life. The idea of social harmony and balance is about all these aspects rolled up towards the goal.

 

A chinese once said to me, "chinese don't like change".. generalizations aside, I find that to be the essence of JCs comments.

 

I don't know that what Jackie Chan is quoted as saying is really all that complex:

 

He said that early in his career, he lived in the shadow of the late martial arts star Bruce Lee. He said that during his first foray into Hollywood, he struggled to establish his own identity, so he returned to Hong Kong. After spending 15 years building his reputation in Asia, Chan finally got rediscovered by Hollywood, he said.

Chan said the problem with Chinese youth is that "they like other people's things. They don't like their own things." Young people need to spend more time developing their own style, he added.

 

I look at him for the man he is. He worked hard to make it on his own. It had to be VERY difficult for him going to Hollywood, where it's hard to find a single Asian success story working in movies and acting. Yes, he overcame it and persevered. He's getting older, and wiser and has a lot of life experience under his belt. He's been pretty silent through the years when it comes to commenting on political and social things. It appears that he has a burden in his heart for the changes he's now seeing in the young people of China, Hong Kong, and Taiwan. Surely, after all he's been through, I respect his words a lot more than I do the open mouth, insert foot ramblings of so many younger people in Hollywood.

 

In my view, he's saying what most of us heard from our parents, or should have heard when we were growing up. That is, hard work, and respecting others, pays off. Even when you have to walk five miles to school

[whome?]

I doubt he would be so successful if he was mainland Chinese and had been controlled ....

mainlander or not, his upbringing was probably harsher than most mainlanders.

 

so what control are talking about ... control of the people by the government or control by the parents. I did not see that he explained what he meant by control.

I think it's a complex comment by JC and an equally complex answer.. maybe not one I can really explain, although I feel the point of it.

 

He only made a comment about 'control' and 'freedom'; it's not as simple as saying, by the government or parents; one would have to add in; culture, history, relationships, medicine, philosophy, ethics, etc... I think he knew that and those that applauded.

 

To me, chinese culture is a web of all these factors which seek to direct people about all aspects of life. The idea of social harmony and balance is about all these aspects rolled up towards the goal.

 

A chinese once said to me, "chinese don't like change".. generalizations aside, I find that to be the essence of JCs comments.

 

I don't know that what Jackie Chan is quoted as saying is really all that complex:

 

He said that early in his career, he lived in the shadow of the late martial arts star Bruce Lee. He said that during his first foray into Hollywood, he struggled to establish his own identity, so he returned to Hong Kong. After spending 15 years building his reputation in Asia, Chan finally got rediscovered by Hollywood, he said.

Chan said the problem with Chinese youth is that "they like other people's things. They don't like their own things." Young people need to spend more time developing their own style, he added.

 

I look at him for the man he is. He worked hard to make it on his own. It had to be VERY difficult for him going to Hollywood, where it's hard to find a single Asian success story working in movies and acting. Yes, he overcame it and persevered. He's getting older, and wiser and has a lot of life experience under his belt. He's been pretty silent through the years when it comes to commenting on political and social things. It appears that he has a burden in his heart for the changes he's now seeing in the young people of China, Hong Kong, and Taiwan. Surely, after all he's been through, I respect his words a lot more than I do the open mouth, insert foot ramblings of so many younger people in Hollywood.

 

In my view, he's saying what most of us heard from our parents, or should have heard when we were growing up. That is, hard work, and respecting others, pays off. Even when you have to walk five miles to school

 

How does "controlling chinese" and "they like other's people's things" have anything to do with what you said?

 

I did not see him say anything about hard work and respecting others.

 

Yes all people do not like change .. not just chinese .. again ...how does this relate to the need to control the chinese people? Is he purprosing to go back to the period before economic reform by Deng?

[Guest Tony n Terrific]

I doubt he would be so successful if he was mainland Chinese and had been controlled ....

mainlander or not, his upbringing was probably harsher than most mainlanders.

 

so what control are talking about ... control of the people by the government or control by the parents. I did not see that he explained what he meant by control.

I think it's a complex comment by JC and an equally complex answer.. maybe not one I can really explain, although I feel the point of it.

 

He only made a comment about 'control' and 'freedom'; it's not as simple as saying, by the government or parents; one would have to add in; culture, history, relationships, medicine, philosophy, ethics, etc... I think he knew that and those that applauded.

 

To me, chinese culture is a web of all these factors which seek to direct people about all aspects of life. The idea of social harmony and balance is about all these aspects rolled up towards the goal.

 

A chinese once said to me, "chinese don't like change".. generalizations aside, I find that to be the essence of JCs comments.

 

I don't know that what Jackie Chan is quoted as saying is really all that complex:

 

He said that early in his career, he lived in the shadow of the late martial arts star Bruce Lee. He said that during his first foray into Hollywood, he struggled to establish his own identity, so he returned to Hong Kong. After spending 15 years building his reputation in Asia, Chan finally got rediscovered by Hollywood, he said.

Chan said the problem with Chinese youth is that "they like other people's things. They don't like their own things." Young people need to spend more time developing their own style, he added.

 

I look at him for the man he is. He worked hard to make it on his own. It had to be VERY difficult for him going to Hollywood, where it's hard to find a single Asian success story working in movies and acting. Yes, he overcame it and persevered. He's getting older, and wiser and has a lot of life experience under his belt. He's been pretty silent through the years when it comes to commenting on political and social things. It appears that he has a burden in his heart for the changes he's now seeing in the young people of China, Hong Kong, and Taiwan. Surely, after all he's been through, I respect his words a lot more than I do the open mouth, insert foot ramblings of so many younger people in Hollywood.

 

In my view, he's saying what most of us heard from our parents, or should have heard when we were growing up. That is, hard work, and respecting others, pays off. Even when you have to walk five miles to school

The days of Leave it to Beaver and I love Lucy are gone in the US and so it will be in China one day. Shame.

[Guest ShaQuaNew]

How does "controlling chinese" and "they like other's people's things" have anything to do with what you said?

 

I did not see him say anything about hard work and respecting others.

 

Yes all people do not like change .. not just chinese .. again ...how does this relate to the need to control the chinese people? Is he purprosing to go back to the period before economic reform by Deng?

 

I guess you're just going to have to dig a little deeper into the minds of old farts like people in Jackie Chan's age group. I can say that, because he and I are the same age.

 

In my view, it seems you are looking way too deep, and are missing the picture. The man is not a god, he's a human being, and inside, we all pretty much work the same.

 

I suggest you go back and read the story that Tony posted in it's entirety, and keep in mind that the author that wrote the story only chose to quote certain portions of what Jackie actually said; meaning, that it was not a running transcript where every single word and hidden meaning could be dissected.

 

That's our job here. It's our job to dissect every hidden meaning in every word someone says, and develop a hypothesis. Is that funny or what? Okay, not so funny, but honestly, even with what the author to the story provided in quotes, you can see Jackie expressing that it was not easy coming up:

 

The 55-year-old Hong Kong actor was participating in a panel at the annual Boao Forum when he was asked to discuss censorship and restrictions on filmmakers in China. He expanded his comments to include society.

"I'm not sure if it's good to have freedom or not," Chan said. "I'm really confused now. If you're too free, you're like the way Hong Kong is now. It's very chaotic. Taiwan is also chaotic."

 

Then, when you add to it:

 

Chan added: "I'm gradually beginning to feel that we Chinese need to be controlled. If we're not being controlled, we'll just do what we want."

 

The following is the essence to his hard work:

 

He said that early in his career, he lived in the shadow of the late martial arts star Bruce Lee. He said that during his first foray into Hollywood, he struggled to establish his own identity, so he returned to Hong Kong. After spending 15 years building his reputation in Asia, Chan finally got rediscovered by Hollywood, he said.

 

The author then included:

 

Chan said the problem with Chinese youth is that "they like other people's things. They don't like their own things." Young people need to spend more time developing their own style, he added.

 

You might get something different, but what I get from this is Jackie saying that kids today want other peoples things, and need to spend more time working to get their own. In my view, this sounds familiar to every single parent in America that has raised children.

[Sebastian]

 

I look at him for the man he is. He worked hard to make it on his own. It had to be VERY difficult for him going to Hollywood, where it's hard to find a single Asian success story working in movies and acting. Yes, he overcame it and persevered. He's getting older, and wiser and has a lot of life experience under his belt. He's been pretty silent through the years when it comes to commenting on political and social things. It appears that he has a burden in his heart for the changes he's now seeing in the young people of China, Hong Kong, and Taiwan. Surely, after all he's been through, I respect his words a lot more than I do the open mouth, insert foot ramblings of so many younger people in Hollywood.

 

In my view, he's saying what most of us heard from our parents, or should have heard when we were growing up. That is, hard work, and respecting others, pays off. Even when you have to walk five miles to school

 

Interesting.

 

I have a totally different view of him - no where close to yours. Mine is based on his forays into the HKG film scene, and how he used his solid skills to bootstrap into Hollywood. I dunno - I swear - we're reading different things - cause if we're reading the same things, and have this great dichotomy of opinion? One of us needs to be labelled as 'not a reader'.

 

Thankfully - he doesn't base his income stream on your view, or on my view.

Edited April 20, 2009 by Sebastian (see edit history)

[jsa23]

I heard you the first time. I am aware that chinese quality was not always so great but in my opinion (as a manufacturing manager in China) it is not as bad today as some people like to say.

 

He did not say that only a chinese tv for domestic use would explode; he said chinese tvs explode. He made a comment that I am surprised the Chinese CEOs of those TV brands do not take some concern/disagreement with. I brought my Chinese TV in China so it was built for domestic usage .... it has not blown up yet.

 

I think the thing to keep in mind about quality of Chinese products is that while modern concepts of quality control have been adopted by a large number of western/Japanese/Korean companies, these concepts are really just beginning to be adopted by a lot of Chinese companies.

 

I say this from the perspective of someone currently doing business in China as part of a large U.S. company, who has had some "interesting" experiences with aspects of quality control from Chinese/Taiwanese corporations over the past few months.

 

This isn't to say that Chinese goods are inherently dangeous, but some companies are far ahead of others when it comes to quality control and other manufacturing practices. It's much more hit and miss than in the U.S.

Edited April 20, 2009 by jsa23 (see edit history)

[samsong]

 

I look at him for the man he is. He worked hard to make it on his own. It had to be VERY difficult for him going to Hollywood, where it's hard to find a single Asian success story working in movies and acting. Yes, he overcame it and persevered. He's getting older, and wiser and has a lot of life experience under his belt. He's been pretty silent through the years when it comes to commenting on political and social things. It appears that he has a burden in his heart for the changes he's now seeing in the young people of China, Hong Kong, and Taiwan. Surely, after all he's been through, I respect his words a lot more than I do the open mouth, insert foot ramblings of so many younger people in Hollywood.

 

In my view, he's saying what most of us heard from our parents, or should have heard when we were growing up. That is, hard work, and respecting others, pays off. Even when you have to walk five miles to school

 

Interesting.

 

I have a totally different view of him - no where close to yours. Mine is based on his forays into the HKG film scene, and how he used his solid skills to bootstrap into Hollywood. I dunno - I swear - we're reading different things - cause if we're reading the same things, and have this great dichotomy of opinion? One of us needs to be labelled as 'not a reader'.

 

Thankfully - he doesn't base his income stream on your view, or on my view.

I agree with the previous post. It's an accurate and honest portrayal, I feel. Jackie Chan is like all the other Asian actors that's had to work extra hard to make it in the business since the days of Anna Mae Wong and I have a great deal of respect for that and will listen to anything he has to say which is not very often he says anything that makes the news. A reporter asked him a question and he gave his thoughts on it. Good for him!

[Christopher]

There's nothing inherently wrong with chaos. I'd say there are some net positive benefits to chaos. If things are too tightly controlled, we run the risk of stagnation, or worse.

 

The problem is, law enforcement (or any other type of security apparatus for that matter) requires that its agents operate with privileges that ordinary citizens do not have. Police powers, as the Libertarians correctly point out, are called theft, kidnapping and murder when ordinary citizens do them. That is why the people who enforce the law need to be at an arms distance (at least) from the people who decide the laws.

 

More likely, a scenario where law deciders also do law enforcement, would devolve into an extreme dictatorship along the lines of Eritrea, where most of the population are now enslaved by their government. To take things to an extreme, I suppose that with the aid of ubiquitous law enforcement backed up by artificial intelligence (so as not to occupy 1/2 of the human race in surveilling the other 1/2) somebody could achieve a semblance of total control. That somebody would also destroy the species as we know it. The elimination of risk taking behavior in young men alone would suffice, IMO.

 

The point is, things will not stay the same no matter how hard we try. The best we can do is identify the behaviors that we really can't put up with and firewall them off. There will always be arguments about the size and composition of that list. Some people will include lipping off to their elders/superiors/social betters on that list, as the biblical Israelites did. Others will not. But that list should never be maintained solely by any one segment of civil society, because they *will* use that power to their advantage.

[hakkamike]

Sounds like prejudice (Jackie) against mainlanders.

 

In the context of the rest of the article, it doesn't seem that way. In fact, the title isn't necessarily a fair representation of the article itself.

 

In many ways, it sounds to me like Jackie was simply towing the line. Speaking to a Chinese audience, he basically said that he thinks the mainland way is better, not Taiwan or Hong Kong - giving the people what they wanted to hear, to an extent.

 

On the other hand, he DID have the guts to speak up about the quality of Chinese goods, even given the possibility that it might rub some people the wrong way.

I essentially agree... but he had the guts to say something historically and philosophically profound.

 

We've gotten to a point in history where you cannot say anything without some group taking some offense... instead of seeing if there is something to learn from the comment.

I have seen a few people here on CFL say the same or similar and it sure got ugly

[whome?]

I heard you the first time. I am aware that chinese quality was not always so great but in my opinion (as a manufacturing manager in China) it is not as bad today as some people like to say.

 

He did not say that only a chinese tv for domestic use would explode; he said chinese tvs explode. He made a comment that I am surprised the Chinese CEOs of those TV brands do not take some concern/disagreement with. I brought my Chinese TV in China so it was built for domestic usage .... it has not blown up yet.

 

I think the thing to keep in mind about quality of Chinese products is that while modern concepts of quality control have been adopted by a large number of western/Japanese/Korean companies, these concepts are really just beginning to be adopted by a lot of Chinese companies.

 

I say this from the perspective of someone currently doing business in China as part of a large U.S. company, who has had some "interesting" experiences with aspects of quality control from Chinese/Taiwanese corporations over the past few months.

 

This isn't to say that Chinese goods are inherently dangeous, but some companies are far ahead of others when it comes to quality control and other manufacturing practices. It's much more hit and miss than in the U.S.

 

I made my comments as an American running two German-Chinese joint ventures in China using domestic China raw material supply companies.

 

I fully understand and can appreciate what you say. We do many more supplier audits thant we would ever do in Europe or NAFTA and have a list of good, ok, and bad suppliers (only take from in an emergency).

 

My point was that saying you are scared of a Chinese TV blowing up is an asine and crazy statement to make. Chinese quality is not that bad and actually their electronic industry quality is rapidly approaching global standard. The statement was way off target plus within the context of his other statements it makes no sense at all.

[Guest ShaQuaNew]

I heard you the first time. I am aware that chinese quality was not always so great but in my opinion (as a manufacturing manager in China) it is not as bad today as some people like to say.

 

He did not say that only a chinese tv for domestic use would explode; he said chinese tvs explode. He made a comment that I am surprised the Chinese CEOs of those TV brands do not take some concern/disagreement with. I brought my Chinese TV in China so it was built for domestic usage .... it has not blown up yet.

 

I think the thing to keep in mind about quality of Chinese products is that while modern concepts of quality control have been adopted by a large number of western/Japanese/Korean companies, these concepts are really just beginning to be adopted by a lot of Chinese companies.

 

I say this from the perspective of someone currently doing business in China as part of a large U.S. company, who has had some "interesting" experiences with aspects of quality control from Chinese/Taiwanese corporations over the past few months.

 

This isn't to say that Chinese goods are inherently dangeous, but some companies are far ahead of others when it comes to quality control and other manufacturing practices. It's much more hit and miss than in the U.S.

 

I made my comments as an American running two German-Chinese joint ventures in China using domestic China raw material supply companies.

 

I fully understand and can appreciate what you say. We do many more supplier audits thant we would ever do in Europe or NAFTA and have a list of good, ok, and bad suppliers (only take from in an emergency).

 

My point was that saying you are scared of a Chinese TV blowing up is an asine and crazy statement to make. Chinese quality is not that bad and actually their electronic industry quality is rapidly approaching global standard. The statement was way off target plus within the context of his other statements it makes no sense at all.

China is the first place I've ever been where they will actually take a new electronic device out of the box, plug it in, and check to ensure that it is fully functional and operating, while you're standing there.

 

As a consumer, I rather like that, though it caught me off-guard at first. You have the option here to buy the top of the line, name brand product, and after market stuff, depending upon how much you wanna spend. The cheaper stuff of course isn't as reliable and may not work out of the box, so you just keep opening boxes until you find one that does.

Edited April 21, 2009 by ShaQuaNew (see edit history)

[whome?]

I heard you the first time. I am aware that chinese quality was not always so great but in my opinion (as a manufacturing manager in China) it is not as bad today as some people like to say.

 

He did not say that only a chinese tv for domestic use would explode; he said chinese tvs explode. He made a comment that I am surprised the Chinese CEOs of those TV brands do not take some concern/disagreement with. I brought my Chinese TV in China so it was built for domestic usage .... it has not blown up yet.

 

I think the thing to keep in mind about quality of Chinese products is that while modern concepts of quality control have been adopted by a large number of western/Japanese/Korean companies, these concepts are really just beginning to be adopted by a lot of Chinese companies.

 

I say this from the perspective of someone currently doing business in China as part of a large U.S. company, who has had some "interesting" experiences with aspects of quality control from Chinese/Taiwanese corporations over the past few months.

 

This isn't to say that Chinese goods are inherently dangeous, but some companies are far ahead of others when it comes to quality control and other manufacturing practices. It's much more hit and miss than in the U.S.

 

I made my comments as an American running two German-Chinese joint ventures in China using domestic China raw material supply companies.

 

I fully understand and can appreciate what you say. We do many more supplier audits thant we would ever do in Europe or NAFTA and have a list of good, ok, and bad suppliers (only take from in an emergency).

 

My point was that saying you are scared of a Chinese TV blowing up is an asine and crazy statement to make. Chinese quality is not that bad and actually their electronic industry quality is rapidly approaching global standard. The statement was way off target plus within the context of his other statements it makes no sense at all.

China is the first place I've ever been where they will actually take a new electronic device out of the box, plug it in, and check to ensure that it is fully functional and operating, while you're standing there.

 

As a consumer, I rather like that, though it caught me off-guard at first. You have the option here to buy the top of the line, name brand product, and after market stuff, depending upon how much you wanna spend. The cheaper stuff of course isn't as reliable and may not work out of the box, so you just keep opening boxes until you find one that does.

 

Exactly .... although the reason for the practice of checking the electronic device is because the chinese people are used to poor quality and do not trust anything ... so it kinds of defeats my statement

 

They also check memory sticks, etc. I was also surprised when they cut open a plastic package containing the memory stick and make the sales eprson plug it into a computer, copy a file on to it, and then re-open the file. I rather like it too.

[whome?]

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/cndy/2009-04/...ent_7701451.htm

 

The mainland press started discussing the story now....

 

Solon So, the chief executive of Chan's company JC Group and his main spokesman, told AP in a phone interview yesterday that the actor was referring to freedom in the entertainment industry rather than Chinese society at large.

 

"Some people with ulterior motives deliberately misinterpreted what he said," So said.

 

And so we see that PR is also the same all over the world ...

[shushuweiwei]

Sounds like prejudice (Jackie) against mainlanders.

 

In the context of the rest of the article, it doesn't seem that way. In fact, the title isn't necessarily a fair representation of the article itself.

 

In many ways, it sounds to me like Jackie was simply towing the line. Speaking to a Chinese audience, he basically said that he thinks the mainland way is better, not Taiwan or Hong Kong - giving the people what they wanted to hear, to an extent.

 

On the other hand, he DID have the guts to speak up about the quality of Chinese goods, even given the possibility that it might rub some people the wrong way.

I essentially agree... but he had the guts to say something historically and philosophically profound.

 

We've gotten to a point in history where you cannot say anything without some group taking some offense... instead of seeing if there is something to learn from the comment.

 

Jackie Chan is well-respected amongst the Chinese people. He's one that was actually born and raised in the East, and then grew to be a world traveler. During his travels, he's been fortunate enough to live and experience the differences between one culture and another. In my view, the US would do a lot better for itself by bringing back the controls exercised in schools and homes before 1960. Back in the days when a teacher could discipline a student for misbehaving and failing to do their assigned work.

Teachers never lost the ability to discipline students for such things. I think you meant to say back when they could use violence to discipline.

 

Whether you are talking about students or detainees, violence never loses its charm, despite its lack of effectiveness.

[IllinoisDave]

Sounds like prejudice (Jackie) against mainlanders.

 

In the context of the rest of the article, it doesn't seem that way. In fact, the title isn't necessarily a fair representation of the article itself.

 

In many ways, it sounds to me like Jackie was simply towing the line. Speaking to a Chinese audience, he basically said that he thinks the mainland way is better, not Taiwan or Hong Kong - giving the people what they wanted to hear, to an extent.

 

On the other hand, he DID have the guts to speak up about the quality of Chinese goods, even given the possibility that it might rub some people the wrong way.

I essentially agree... but he had the guts to say something historically and philosophically profound.

 

We've gotten to a point in history where you cannot say anything without some group taking some offense... instead of seeing if there is something to learn from the comment.

 

Jackie Chan is well-respected amongst the Chinese people. He's one that was actually born and raised in the East, and then grew to be a world traveler. During his travels, he's been fortunate enough to live and experience the differences between one culture and another. In my view, the US would do a lot better for itself by bringing back the controls exercised in schools and homes before 1960. Back in the days when a teacher could discipline a student for misbehaving and failing to do their assigned work.

Teachers never lost the ability to discipline students for such things. I think you meant to say back when they could use violence to discipline.

 

Whether you are talking about students or detainees, violence never loses its charm, despite its lack of effectiveness.

So true. Of course who knows, if a teacher could paddle a third grader 183 times, he might just get him to turn in the Mona Lisa as his art homework.

 

BTW, belated congrats on the wedding Joe. Just noticed it in your sig.