TIN for Chinese spouse

[MoonCarolCafe]

I just got off the phone with a staffer at the GZ consulate regarding getting a tax ID number (TIN) for my wife, so I file joint taxes.

 

According to her, to get a TIN we have to:

1- Get a notarized copy of her ID/birth certificate done

2- Have notarized copy authenticated at the provincial foriegn affairs office

3- Take it to the consulate for verification, where they will then stamp it OK, so it will be valid documentation for a TIN to the IRS.

 

Is there an easier way top go about this? I'd like to set up a joint account, but I can't do that without a TIN/SSN, and I cannot get a TIN without going through the above three steps to get the documentation the IRS will accept.

[Bob & Minglian]

Getting an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN) for my wife was much easier than I thought it might be. I did this last December. I first picked up from the IRS a Form W-7, which is the application form needed for the ITIN. I was with my wife in Shenzhen last December and took the W-7 form with me. She signed her name on the bottom of the form (in Chinese characters). When I left China to come back to the U.S. I took her Chinese Passport with me. The first week back (week of January 6) I went to the local IRS office with the completed W-7, her passport, and our marriage certificate. That was all I needed and it satisfied the requirements of the IRS. I received the ITIN card from the IRS in about 3 or 4 weeks. I made a copy of the card then sent the original card and the passport to my wife. She signed the card (in Chinese characters) and mailed it back to me. I made a copy for myself, laminated both the original and my copy, and returned the original to her. I filed a joint tax return last year and simply presented the signed duplicate ITIN card to my tax accountant. I received a substantial refund on both Federal and State Income Tax because of the change in marital status. And I'm sure having that ITIN on the 1040 speeds up processing and reduces the chance for an audit. Probably common knowledge but the ITIN looks like a Social Security Number (xxx-xx-xxxx). That number is used until she is here in the U.S. and has a SSN.

[MoonCarolCafe]

I took her Chinese Passport with me <--Uhh, I sort of thought that was a bad idea... ?

 

We (she and I) made a few phone calls and located a very helpful man at the Provincial Consulate... so it looks like I'll be able to take care of all of this when I return to China in a few weeks. If the folks at the DMV were this friendly, I'd be down there replacing my driver's license every other week. I've met plenty of decent Chinese public servants, but the 4 I just spoke to took niceness to a totally different level!

[owenkrout]

Interesting.... Maybe I should file an amended return. H&R Block advised me that I could not claim my wife or her daughter that was living with us since they had to be Citizens or green card holders in order to be claimed as dependents.

[MoonCarolCafe]

Well, according to my convo with a service rep at the IRS, you need a SSN or TIN to claim them. The impact of amending my taxes to include her makes it Very Cost Effective to do whatever it takes to get a TIN for her, even if it means going to China. But I was going to China anyway so...

[Bob & Minglian]

I took her Chinese Passport with me <--Uhh, I sort of thought that was a bad idea...  ?

Yes, not a good idea but only if lost. We were very careful. It worked like magic for us with the IRS. You'll figure out what works best for you.

[filatelist]

If my tax preparer knew this, it would save me a lot of money for 2002. Does IRS accept amendment for 2002 income tax return?

[MoonCarolCafe]

Does IRS accept amendment for 2002 income tax return?

Probably. Back when I thought about adding her to my tax return I filed for an extension, in order to wait for her TIN paperwork to go through. I went ahead and filed, with her name on the return, but no SSN or TIN.

 

DON'T DO THIS!

 

I end up with a couple of refund checks with her AND my name on them that I am unable to do anything with because you cannot deposit a US Treasury check into an account unless both names on the account match both names on the check, except you cannot get a joint account without a TIN...

 

I can amend my return and refile without her, but then I end up owing the IRS. Plus, she would rip me a new one for giving the money back instead of spending it on her.

 

The "marriage penalty" sucks pustulent hippo udders... until it works to your advantage.

 

OK, so the lesson for today is: Don't put her name on your tax return until you have a joint account to deposit the checks into.

[johnnybill45]

I got a TIN for my wife. All I did was submit a form to IRS.

 

John

[frank1538]

I'm really confused now. What is the difference between a TIN and an SSN? Unless, the spouse needs a TIN for business reasons, why wouldn't an SSN suffice?

[frank1538]

I'm really confused now.  What is the difference between a TIN and an SSN?  Unless, the spouse needs a TIN for business reasons, why wouldn't an SSN suffice?

Never mind. I think I just answered my own question. A Chinese spouse living in China cannot get an SSN, but can get a TIN.

[Bob & Minglian]

If you are married on December 31 or earlier on any given tax year, you can and should file your tax return showing you are, in fact, married. Filing a joint return for me meant a difference of nearly $5000 USD in my favor. Yes, I did apply for and receive an ITIN from the IRS prior to that filing and getting that ITIN was very easy. I filed an electronic return. My wife signed the appropriate documents prepared by my tax accountant and both my Federal tax refund and my State of Oregon tax refund were electronically deposited into my bank account. My bank account is not a joint account; it does not have her name on the account. If you, for whatever reason, choose to not file electronically, U.S. Treasury checks are valid for one full year from the date of issuance. I have an excellent working relationship with my bank Branch Manager and even with a paper check I would not have an issue. However, if you do not have benefit of that, you may need to hold the check until your spouse is here in the U.S. If that one year draws near, I'm sure you would have other options available to you.

 

Can you and should you amend a previous years tax return to file a joint return. You can and should. I would say in many if not most cases it will be of benefit. What you do not want to do is to simply file a tax return indicating that you are single when in reality you are married.

[Bob & Minglian]

What if your wife is working in China ? Don't you have to claim that as taxable income? How do you prove you are supporting her and what about a stepchild???? Do you file married head of house hold or what?

My wife and I were married in China September 9, 2002. She quit her job in China on September 30, 2002, and has not had earned income since. And yes, her income must be claimed and will be combined with yours and reported on line item 7 of the 1040 form. However, it is then excluded on line item 21 on the 1040 form. Most Chinese who are married to U.S. Citizens will qualify to have their income excluded from the 1040 form since most earn less than $80,000 USD. A form 2555, Foreign Earned Income Exclusion, accompanies the form 1040. Your wife's income is simply converted to U.S. Dollars and since the Chinese RMB is rather stable, a single conversion factor can be applied to her entire year's income. I requested my wife get a signed and dated notarized letter from her employer on company letterhead stating her position, duration of employment, earnings per pay period, and earnings paid year-to-date. I provided that document to my tax accountant as backup.

 

With a step-child in China, I'm not sure how that works. A competent tax accountant would, of course, be able to answer that. My guess is that it would fall under the same criteria as if he or she were here. If, however, the child's biological father is contributing to the support of his child that can complicate matters. If not at all, then the issue is much easier to answer. You can also obtain an ITIN for a dependent of a U.S. Citizen by completing IRS form W-7, line item "d." By the way, you cannot complete a single W-7 form for both your wife and step-child; you'll need to submit two separate W-7 forms. I suggest submitting both forms to the IRS at the same time and for you to do it in person. You will also want to ask the IRS what identifying documents you will need to file for an ITIN for your step-child. If there are no issues with financial support from others for your step-child, you would file a joint tax return with one exemption for each of you (a total of 3). Again, you should discuss this more thoroughly with a tax accountant who understands your situation.