China's birth limits create dangerous gender gap

[Jeikun]

you know this very privince biased ?

 

in yunnan there is no restriction (imposed) on villages or a preference for gender on children.

Also most dont care in cities (yunnan) if children are girls or boys, I realise this is different in the north and east in some cities and villages, but it is changing.

 

Not so. It is not based on province.

 

What happens is that in some provinces there are certain ethnic groups and any ethnic group that is not Han is legally allowed to reproduce like rabbits. Han Chinese in Yunnan are under the population planning rules.

 

true and not true, china is not as rigid as usa govt control

 

Not a very lucid statement that anybody who has been in China for more than 4 days would find true.

 

When the Chinese government wants to exercise control, they can do it very rigidly and in the most brutal ways imaginable.

 

Oh, really? Show us an example.

 

As far as I know, when the fishing ship went to the coatline of Russia, the Russians fired at them, killing 7 out of 16.

 

Last month, the same thing happened in the Chinese coast line by American so called research ship, did we kill the Americans? Negative.

 

 

Because despite moaning about it, the Chinese government was too smart to fire on a US ship in INTERNATIONAL waters. Firing on the US ship would have been an aggressive and unjustifiable response in both the view of the USA and the UN, and bought heap big plenty trouble for China. They were aware of this. So they just harassed them, and mooned them, and the USA was too smart to be aggressive to the Chinese ships to justify an aggressive response. It's a good thing both of our countries military leadership have the good sence to think such things through. Of course the political spinmeisters and uneducated masses... that's another story. Good thing they're not in charge of the military.

 

Oh, but what does comparing a Russian and a Chinese unrelated naval action have to do with how strict the USA and China are about civil law. Just an excuse to inject a smidgeon of venom? I am perplexed.

Edited April 16, 2009 by Jeikun (see edit history)

[lilac6451]

you know this very privince biased ?

 

in yunnan there is no restriction (imposed) on villages or a preference for gender on children.

Also most dont care in cities (yunnan) if children are girls or boys, I realise this is different in the north and east in some cities and villages, but it is changing.

 

Not so. It is not based on province.

 

What happens is that in some provinces there are certain ethnic groups and any ethnic group that is not Han is legally allowed to reproduce like rabbits. Han Chinese in Yunnan are under the population planning rules.

 

true and not true, china is not as rigid as usa govt control

 

Not a very lucid statement that anybody who has been in China for more than 4 days would find true.

 

When the Chinese government wants to exercise control, they can do it very rigidly and in the most brutal ways imaginable.

 

Oh, really? Show us an example.

 

As far as I know, when the fishing ship went to the coatline of Russia, the Russians fired at them, killing 7 out of 16.

 

Last month, the same thing happened in the Chinese coast line by American so called research ship, did we kill the Americans? Negative.

 

 

Because despite moaning about it, the Chinese government was too smart to fire on a US ship in INTERNATIONAL waters. Firing on the US ship would have been an aggressive and unjustifiable response in both the view of the USA and the UN, and bought heap big plenty trouble for China. They were aware of this. So they just harassed them, and mooned them, and the USA was too smart to be aggressive to the Chinese ships to justify an aggressive response. It's a good thing both of our countries military leadership have the good sence to think such things through. Of course the political spinmeisters and uneducated masses... that's another story. Good thing they're not in charge of the military.

 

Oh, but what does comparing a Russian and a Chinese unrelated naval action have to do with how strict the USA and China are about civil law. Just an excuse to inject a smidgeon of venom? I am perplexed.

 

My example just serves the propose of denying the saying that our government is brutal, by some guys here...actually our government is people friendly.

 

By the way, according to the news here, the USA ship did go inside our waterway... it is lucky for Americans this time. If they went near/inside Russian coastline, they would have lost their lives, at least some of them.

[IllinoisDave]

My example just serves the propose of denying the saying that our government is brutal, by some guys here...actually our government is people friendly.

sary hrd tu tipe lafing tu hrd

Edited April 18, 2009 by IllinoisDave (see edit history)

[GZBILL]

My example just serves the propose of denying the saying that our government is brutal, by some guys here...actually our government is people friendly.

sary hrd tu tipe lafing tu hrd

 

 

Totally agree!

 

Deep down, though, you really should feel sorry for someone who can write that and honestly believe it.

[IllinoisDave]

My example just serves the propose of denying the saying that our government is brutal, by some guys here...actually our government is people friendly.

sary hrd tu tipe lafing tu hrd

 

 

Totally agree!

 

Deep down, though, you really should feel sorry for someone who can write that and honestly believe it.

Yes...deep,deep down.

[Jeikun]

you know this very privince biased ?

 

in yunnan there is no restriction (imposed) on villages or a preference for gender on children.

Also most dont care in cities (yunnan) if children are girls or boys, I realise this is different in the north and east in some cities and villages, but it is changing.

 

Not so. It is not based on province.

 

What happens is that in some provinces there are certain ethnic groups and any ethnic group that is not Han is legally allowed to reproduce like rabbits. Han Chinese in Yunnan are under the population planning rules.

 

true and not true, china is not as rigid as usa govt control

 

Not a very lucid statement that anybody who has been in China for more than 4 days would find true.

 

When the Chinese government wants to exercise control, they can do it very rigidly and in the most brutal ways imaginable.

 

Oh, really? Show us an example.

 

As far as I know, when the fishing ship went to the coatline of Russia, the Russians fired at them, killing 7 out of 16.

 

Last month, the same thing happened in the Chinese coast line by American so called research ship, did we kill the Americans? Negative.

 

 

Because despite moaning about it, the Chinese government was too smart to fire on a US ship in INTERNATIONAL waters. Firing on the US ship would have been an aggressive and unjustifiable response in both the view of the USA and the UN, and bought heap big plenty trouble for China. They were aware of this. So they just harassed them, and mooned them, and the USA was too smart to be aggressive to the Chinese ships to justify an aggressive response. It's a good thing both of our countries military leadership have the good sence to think such things through. Of course the political spinmeisters and uneducated masses... that's another story. Good thing they're not in charge of the military.

 

Oh, but what does comparing a Russian and a Chinese unrelated naval action have to do with how strict the USA and China are about civil law. Just an excuse to inject a smidgeon of venom? I am perplexed.

 

My example just serves the propose of denying the saying that our government is brutal, by some guys here...actually our government is people friendly.

 

By the way, according to the news here, the USA ship did go inside our waterway... it is lucky for Americans this time. If they went near/inside Russian coastline, they would have lost their lives, at least some of them.

 

If we went inside their territorial waters, yes. China claims to have sovereignty within their "exclusive economic zone", which the UN and no other country holds to be the case. They have exclusive fishing rights there. Not the right to say who can go there and what they can do (except that they can't steal fish). Now, if that ship had been stealing fish... China would have been within it's rights to accost them. Russia knows this well also. The distance between Russia and Alaska is very small. If you went 10 feet off shore you would be closer to Russia than we were to China.

 

Anyway, "lucky this time" isn't so accurate, we do that constantly. Almost every day. It's just never in the news because usually nothing exciting happens from it.

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't BLAME China for not liking it. Just like we never liked people maneuvering in the caribbean or the gulf. It's just part of the game we play. The USA and China have strong interests in keeping peace with each other. But our Navies and Air Forces have to flex their muscles at each other occasionally. It's all in good fun, actually.

 

My main question in using that, is that how the military behaves to a foreign power doesn't have much to do one way or the other with how that country's civil government governs it's own people.

 

Anyway whether China is harsh or friendly, and whether the 1 child policy is fair or unfair isn't really the point. The point was to what extent it is causing a gender imbalance, and what kinds of problems could it cause?

 

Personally, I think a bigger problem will be the age balance. Since most Chinese traditionally take care of their parents, and because of improving health care people live longer lives in the modern age, there will be more and more people growing old who need to be supported by much less young people. We have the same problem growing now in Europe, and the USA, and Japan because many of these developed countries had many babies after World War 2, and now have much fewer, but it could possibly become a larger problem in China someday. What do you think?

[shadeOgray]

Being a former spook type guy for the military all I can say is I have seen this done on a daily basis. It is a game USA, China, and Russia have played for decades. The only reason it was news this time is because some jack ass in a news room some where wanted some rating points to spike a little bit. Don't let the media play you. B)

This type of stuff happens almost daily but you never hear about it.

[jsa23]

Anyway whether China is harsh or friendly, and whether the 1 child policy is fair or unfair isn't really the point. The point was to what extent it is causing a gender imbalance, and what kinds of problems could it cause?

 

Personally, I think a bigger problem will be the age balance. Since most Chinese traditionally take care of their parents, and because of improving health care people live longer lives in the modern age, there will be more and more people growing old who need to be supported by much less young people. We have the same problem growing now in Europe, and the USA, and Japan because many of these developed countries had many babies after World War 2, and now have much fewer, but it could possibly become a larger problem in China someday. What do you think?

 

I agree with the age distribution presenting issues as well. If the baby boomers' retirement will present the U.S. a problem, I think the same may happen, only on an even larger scale, to the parents of the era of China's one child policy. I don't have the exact data on hand for China's population dynamics, but one would think that having such a top-heavy population distribution would have to have a profound economic impact.

 

Though, to be fair, the magnitude of that impact is likely to vary significantly between locations, due to differences in family planning policies relative to provinces, urban vs. rural, ethnic groups, etc.

[Jeikun]

Being a former spook type guy for the military all I can say is I have seen this done on a daily basis. It is a game USA, China, and Russia have played for decades. The only reason it was news this time is because some jack ass in a news room some where wanted some rating points to spike a little bit. Don't let the media play you.

This type of stuff happens almost daily but you never hear about it.

 

 

Cool, I was a Cryptolinguist. What did you do (in general of course)?

[david_dawei]

I agree with the age distribution presenting issues as well. If the baby boomers' retirement will present the U.S. a problem, I think the same may happen, only on an even larger scale, to the parents of the era of China's one child policy. I don't have the exact data on hand for China's population dynamics, but one would think that having such a top-heavy population distribution would have to have a profound economic impact.

 

Though, to be fair, the magnitude of that impact is likely to vary significantly between locations, due to differences in family planning policies relative to provinces, urban vs. rural, ethnic groups, etc.

and maybe a profound psychological impact. When the "one" child has moved away to improve their life, or worse, left the country in marriage!! what's the parent to truly think? If children are like a bank account; you deposit early in life to withdraw later... but seems they may not have any account to draw from... yet, another reason some go to other countries

[Li & John]

My example just serves the propose of denying the saying that our government is brutal, by some guys here...actually our government is people friendly.

sary hrd tu tipe lafing tu hrd

 

 

Totally agree!

 

Deep down, though, you really should feel sorry for someone who can write that and honestly believe it.

GZBILL, I agree with you on just about everything, except this. My question, How can somebody from another country think they know more then a native born and raised and educated from that country?

What do we really know about China and it's culture? Just what we read in books and see on TV News and documentaries? In my opinion, I think the person that grew up there knows the best.

[lilac6451]

you know this very privince biased ?

 

in yunnan there is no restriction (imposed) on villages or a preference for gender on children.

Also most dont care in cities (yunnan) if children are girls or boys, I realise this is different in the north and east in some cities and villages, but it is changing.

 

Not so. It is not based on province.

 

What happens is that in some provinces there are certain ethnic groups and any ethnic group that is not Han is legally allowed to reproduce like rabbits. Han Chinese in Yunnan are under the population planning rules.

 

true and not true, china is not as rigid as usa govt control

 

Not a very lucid statement that anybody who has been in China for more than 4 days would find true.

 

When the Chinese government wants to exercise control, they can do it very rigidly and in the most brutal ways imaginable.

 

Oh, really? Show us an example.

 

As far as I know, when the fishing ship went to the coatline of Russia, the Russians fired at them, killing 7 out of 16.

 

Last month, the same thing happened in the Chinese coast line by American so called research ship, did we kill the Americans? Negative.

 

You must be confused.

 

Tiananmen, Tibet ... dozens -- if not hundreds -- of lesser incidents of the government exercising brutal control.

 

For those who are not freethinkers, I did not say that any forms of rigid, brutal control are wrong. I simply say that it exists here and, more often than not, much more than in the USA.

 

 

Ok, if some of the protesters took a gun, went out of control and began to kill people, what would your government do in that situation? I think the answer is very obvious.

 

Why did you support some of the Dali Tibetan riot? What is your propose? You want China to split into 30 tiny countries as USSR did? Did your government allow any of your state to break away from the union? I think History has told us the answer. And talking about brutal, everybody knows how many Americans got killed during the Civil War? Do you want me to remind you of that?

 

I just want to give you this example to show you that every government could be doing something out of their normal ways, becaus there are always accidents. Dont use that as a weapon to against them. Dont poke your neighbour while you have a fire on the backyard. That is not nice.

 

[lilac6451]

My example just serves the propose of denying the saying that our government is brutal, by some guys here...actually our government is people friendly.

sary hrd tu tipe lafing tu hrd

 

 

Totally agree!

 

Deep down, though, you really should feel sorry for someone who can write that and honestly believe it.

 

Yes, I did, am doing, will always believe in my country, not like your wife, two days after she went to America, she thought she was an American already.

Edited April 19, 2009 by lilac6451 (see edit history)

[GZBILL]

My example just serves the propose of denying the saying that our government is brutal, by some guys here...actually our government is people friendly.

sary hrd tu tipe lafing tu hrd

 

 

Totally agree!

 

Deep down, though, you really should feel sorry for someone who can write that and honestly believe it.

 

Yes, I did, am doing, will always believe in my country, not like your wife, two days after she went to America, she thought she was an American already.

 

I suppose if I were boxed into a corner and shown to have an IQ of your average gerbil I'd come out with that comment, too.

 

But the funny thing is that I do not have a Chinese wife.

[GZBILL]

My example just serves the propose of denying the saying that our government is brutal, by some guys here...actually our government is people friendly.

sary hrd tu tipe lafing tu hrd

 

 

Totally agree!

 

Deep down, though, you really should feel sorry for someone who can write that and honestly believe it.

GZBILL, I agree with you on just about everything, except this. My question, How can somebody from another country think they know more then a native born and raised and educated from that country?

What do we really know about China and it's culture? Just what we read in books and see on TV News and documentaries? In my opinion, I think the person that grew up there knows the best.

 

When the person that grew up there shows, by what they post, that they have the grasp of a three year old, then you don't have to be a rocket scientist to be right. And it really isn't rocket science.

 

You see this a lot in the uneducated sector -- often with poor self-esteem -- of every country where they take a non-threatening factual comment and get defensive to the point where what little reality they do hold turns into steam. Next will come the "Foreigners should get out of China!" rant and then it just goes downhill from there.

 

Some people who grew up here never really grew up.