China's birth limits create dangerous gender gap

[Guest jin979]

Jin ? whaddya think about importing ethnic Han women, from malaysia and indonesia and cuba ?

 

cant argue with that cat

[Sebastian]

Jin - ya - i swiped that from Hakkamm's collection - she posted it about 4 years ago, here. Lusheng, You Rock !

[whome?]

quote name='jin979' post='487569' date='Apr 14 2009, 07:56 PM']

 

the point is over all it is not a whole china problem

 

if you really want to understand go past media and a few east china university posts, in most of china this is not a issue, any more than poligamy in usa.

 

Ok ... maybe the govt officials are not as up to date on this issue

 

http://english.people.com.cn/90001/90782/6575673.html

 

not much different to usa #'s as you like junk science/statistics, looks like you breed more boys too, is this policy too ?

 

http://www.nationalatlas.gov/articles/people/a_gender.html

 

http://www1.china.org.cn/english/2001/Apr/12028.htm

 

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0005083.html

 

 

 

 

first correct thing you have ever said on china

 

ignoring the link of course B)

 

It is nature not policy. As your article states the normal ratio is 100-107 boys/100 girl births. Your third article shows the USA is within this range.

 

The first article is regarding census figures that are affected by death, immigration, and other things. It shows more females in USA. Yet more males are born than females.

 

Your second article is from 2001. My quoted article was from 2009 and shows:

 

"He didn't give the exact figures, but said the ratio was still high above an even ration, which is about 103-107 boys to 100 girls.

 

An analysis of statistics from population and family planning, education and public security departments showed that between 2006to 2008,the ratio fell two percentage points from the 119:100 reported in 2005."

 

This is clearly not from nature.

 

While this problem may not be in your area it is a potential national problem. If not why is it discussed in the new China Human Rights 2009-2010 draft

 

http://www.china.org.cn/archive/2009-04/13...17595407_22.htm

 

Protecting girls' rights. Identifying the sex of a fetus for other than medical purposes and termination of pregnancy in the case of a female fetus are strictly prohibited. Crimes of killing or abandoning baby girls will be severely punished.

[Guest jin979]

Jin - ya - i swiped that from Hakkamm's collection - she posted it about 4 years ago, here. Lusheng, You Rock !

 

i think a admin should fix your avatar as to never be changed, same for Robs, mikeys and Jasons, they are most funny

[griz326]

china is not as rigid as usa govt control

When the Chinese government wants to exercise control, they can do it very rigidly and in the most brutal ways imaginable.

 

I thought both statements were true when I read them. It appears that Dave agrees with my initial reaction.

 

On the books, it applies to Han chinese; then exceptions kick in (ie: farmers, etc). JIn relates this view.

 

In practice, you see a different application applied, and sometimes with merciless thought. GZBill relates this view.

 

All is not US either/or Chinese perception grasshoppers.

[Bert]

I thought these were an interesting comments:

 

While popularly referred to as the "one child policy", the rule actually restricts just 35.9 percent of the population to having one child, Yu Xuejun, a spokesman with the commission, said in a Webcast on the government's website (www.gov.cn).

 

Except in Central China's Henan Province, couples can have two children if they are both only children, he said.

 

In addition, more than 11 percent of the population, mostly minority groups, is free to have two or more children, he said.

 

http://chinadaily.com.cn/china/2007-07/11/...ent_5432238.htm

[lilac6451]

you know this very privince biased ?

 

in yunnan there is no restriction (imposed) on villages or a preference for gender on children.

Also most dont care in cities (yunnan) if children are girls or boys, I realise this is different in the north and east in some cities and villages, but it is changing.

 

Not so. It is not based on province.

 

What happens is that in some provinces there are certain ethnic groups and any ethnic group that is not Han is legally allowed to reproduce like rabbits. Han Chinese in Yunnan are under the population planning rules.

 

true and not true, china is not as rigid as usa govt control

 

Not a very lucid statement that anybody who has been in China for more than 4 days would find true.

 

When the Chinese government wants to exercise control, they can do it very rigidly and in the most brutal ways imaginable.

 

Oh, really? Show us an example.

 

As far as I know, when the fishing ship went to the coatline of Russia, the Russians fired at them, killing 7 out of 16.

 

Last month, the same thing happened in the Chinese coast line by American so called research ship, did we kill the Americans? Negative.

[lilac6451]

Fact: there is a govt policy of 1 child

Fact: the enforcement is different depending on location or who the person is

Fact: the gender balance is not what would be normal without the policy in place

Concern/Topic: this will cause some problems in future (as discussed in Chinese and global media)

Debateable: usa gov't is more rigid than chinese gov't

 

What you said was fine and true but does not change the fact that the current policy has caused a gender imbalance. in some areas and for some people the policy is not an issue or enforced but overall it is. what was the point of your post .. that the issue does not exist?

 

And you did not need to include the last part... both gov't have policies and laws and both gov't allow exceptions based on who you are, connections, and money.

\

 

I think you made a mistake of generalization of the problems back in China.

 

Yes, we have the birth control policy, one family one child. Do you have problems with that and want to see by next century there are no other races than Chinese/

 

Yes, the minorities have their special policies, but to say they reproduct as rabbits are rude and out of touch with reality. I think there are limit to two or three.

 

Yes, there are some people back in China trying to kiss the people in charge's face just to have more kids.... but isnt that corruption happening everywhere in the world, including in USA?

 

And there are a few who care boys more than girls, but then again, you cant generalize it, in which Jin is right: not all Chinese care about the gender of the kids. You cant say the birth control policy causes a gender inbalance, there is always a gender inbalance. If memory serves me right, the number in America is 1:1.o4 and china is 1:1.06? What a big deal?

Edited April 15, 2009 by lilac6451 (see edit history)

[Guest ShaQuaNew]

I thought these were an interesting comments:

 

While popularly referred to as the "one child policy", the rule actually restricts just 35.9 percent of the population to having one child, Yu Xuejun, a spokesman with the commission, said in a Webcast on the government's website (www.gov.cn).

 

Except in Central China's Henan Province, couples can have two children if they are both only children, he said.

 

In addition, more than 11 percent of the population, mostly minority groups, is free to have two or more children, he said.

 

http://chinadaily.com.cn/china/2007-07/11/...ent_5432238.htm

 

Han people are free to have more than one child; they just have to pay more tax. A few families do it, but to what I've heard others at my office share, there aren't that many Han that have a second child.

[IllinoisDave]

you know this very privince biased ?

 

in yunnan there is no restriction (imposed) on villages or a preference for gender on children.

Also most dont care in cities (yunnan) if children are girls or boys, I realise this is different in the north and east in some cities and villages, but it is changing.

 

Not so. It is not based on province.

 

What happens is that in some provinces there are certain ethnic groups and any ethnic group that is not Han is legally allowed to reproduce like rabbits. Han Chinese in Yunnan are under the population planning rules.

 

true and not true, china is not as rigid as usa govt control

 

Not a very lucid statement that anybody who has been in China for more than 4 days would find true.

 

When the Chinese government wants to exercise control, they can do it very rigidly and in the most brutal ways imaginable.

 

Oh, really? Show us an example.

 

As far as I know, when the fishing ship went to the coatline of Russia, the Russians fired at them, killing 7 out of 16.

 

Last month, the same thing happened in the Chinese coast line by American so called research ship, did we kill the Americans? Negative.

Why bother showing you examples? We could post countless examples of the Chinese government's brutality against it's citizens and you'd just label them all "Western media propaganda/bias" or just call them criminals and say they had it coming. Or use some completely non-sensical example about boats and ships that has no relation at all to the discussion at hand.

 

Or claim that your having lived there trumps any and all facts that someone who hasn't may offer as evidence. Doesn't matter that those facts are well documented. All that matters in your world is that you lived there and we didn't so whatever you say must be factual and whatever we say must not.

 

What credibility you think you have based on your status as a native you lose through intellectual dishonesty.

[IllinoisDave]

you know this very privince biased ?

 

in yunnan there is no restriction (imposed) on villages or a preference for gender on children.

Also most dont care in cities (yunnan) if children are girls or boys, I realise this is different in the north and east in some cities and villages, but it is changing.

Not province-based according to further statistics from the study:

 

http://www.slate.com/id/2216236/

 

The sex ratio at birth for first order births was slightly high in cities and towns but was within normal limits in rural areas. However, the ratio rose very steeply for second and higher order births in cities 138 (132 to 144), towns 137 (131 to 143), and rural areas 146 (143 to 149), although the numbers of second order births in cities were low. These rises were consistent across all provinces, except Tibet, with very high figures for second births in Anhui (190, 176 to 205) and Jiangsu (192, 174 to 212).

[Guest ShaQuaNew]

If you want lots of babies, any Lao Wai can come to China and become a baby factory. I just looked out my window and saw a blond Lao Wai pushing a baby carriage (infant inside), with two little Chinese children in tow, and a bun in the oven...

[Bert]

I thought these were an interesting comments:

 

While popularly referred to as the "one child policy", the rule actually restricts just 35.9 percent of the population to having one child, Yu Xuejun, a spokesman with the commission, said in a Webcast on the government's website (www.gov.cn).

 

Except in Central China's Henan Province, couples can have two children if they are both only children, he said.

 

In addition, more than 11 percent of the population, mostly minority groups, is free to have two or more children, he said.

 

http://chinadaily.com.cn/china/2007-07/11/...ent_5432238.htm

 

Han people are free to have more than one child; they just have to pay more tax. A few families do it, but to what I've heard others at my office share, there aren't that many Han that have a second child.

 

I am certainly no expert on China's policy, but according the the article referenced above and my fiancee, if both parents are the only child, they are free to have another child without penalty. The idea is that the two children replace the parents without increasing the population. My experience is limited to Shanghai. I'd say most of the people i know have a sibling. My first gf had a sister. My fiancee has a sister (as I understand it, her father was jailed for this offense until the relatives bailed him out). Most of the people at work have a sibling. True, many of these are before the policy was implemented. They can indeed have more children, but they pay a stiff penalty.

[david_dawei]

you know this very privince biased ?

 

in yunnan there is no restriction (imposed) on villages or a preference for gender on children.

Also most dont care in cities (yunnan) if children are girls or boys, I realise this is different in the north and east in some cities and villages, but it is changing.

Not province-based according to further statistics from the study:

 

http://www.slate.com/id/2216236/

 

The sex ratio at birth for first order births was slightly high in cities and towns but was within normal limits in rural areas. However, the ratio rose very steeply for second and higher order births in cities 138 (132 to 144), towns 137 (131 to 143), and rural areas 146 (143 to 149), although the numbers of second order births in cities were low. These rises were consistent across all provinces, except Tibet, with very high figures for second births in Anhui (190, 176 to 205) and Jiangsu (192, 174 to 212).

Except this report states the opposite...

 

http://www.insightbureau.com/insight_artic...urent.Nov08.pdf

 

Statistics.... well... I think most know the saying..

 

but I do find this link is how I have felt... and I've asked in the past if anyone has heard of the Tb--son born relationship... which this link is one of the rare ones to mention.

 

Maybe we look for stats which support our own views

[IllinoisDave]

you know this very privince biased ?

 

in yunnan there is no restriction (imposed) on villages or a preference for gender on children.

Also most dont care in cities (yunnan) if children are girls or boys, I realise this is different in the north and east in some cities and villages, but it is changing.

Not province-based according to further statistics from the study:

 

http://www.slate.com/id/2216236/

 

The sex ratio at birth for first order births was slightly high in cities and towns but was within normal limits in rural areas. However, the ratio rose very steeply for second and higher order births in cities 138 (132 to 144), towns 137 (131 to 143), and rural areas 146 (143 to 149), although the numbers of second order births in cities were low. These rises were consistent across all provinces, except Tibet, with very high figures for second births in Anhui (190, 176 to 205) and Jiangsu (192, 174 to 212).

Except this report states the opposite...

 

http://www.insightbureau.com/insight_artic...urent.Nov08.pdf

 

Statistics.... well... I think most know the saying..

 

but I do find this link is how I have felt... and I've asked in the past if anyone has heard of the Tb--son born relationship... which this link is one of the rare ones to mention.

 

Maybe we look for stats which support our own views

The source I cited indicated rises in gender imbalance were consistent across all provinces. I see nothing in your source that indicates the opposite, that it's limited to a few.