Infrastructure: East Beats West?

[georgeandli]

Sun-tzu has been required reading in war colleges before Lincoln.

[Dan R]

Sun-tzu has been required reading in war colleges before Lincoln.

 

As far as I can find, Giles published the first English translation in 1910.

It was loosely interpreted into French at the time of Napoleon. I don't know what sections or how acruately. It is a hot debate among Napoleonic scholars whether Napoleon read the interpretation.

[david_dawei]

Sun-tzu has been required reading in war colleges before Lincoln.

 

As far as I can find, Giles published the first English translation in 1910.

It was loosely interpreted into French at the time of Napoleon. I don't know what sections or how acruately. It is a hot debate among Napoleonic scholars whether Napoleon read the interpretation.

english translations are always late in the coming... more than likely, it *could* of been read in another language which early americans were also exposed to.

 

I would only question whether Sun Zi (I prefer his pinyin name and not the Wades-Gile notation) put this into practice; did he assign an enemy to his camp position somewhere?

 

I'm referring mostly to that act of doing something; putting theory into practice... but I'm unsure if Sun Zi ever did such a thing...

[Dan R]

Sun-tzu has been required reading in war colleges before Lincoln.

 

As far as I can find, Giles published the first English translation in 1910.

It was loosely interpreted into French at the time of Napoleon. I don't know what sections or how acruately. It is a hot debate among Napoleonic scholars whether Napoleon read the interpretation.

english translations are always late in the coming... more than likely, it *could* of been read in another language which early americans were also exposed to.

 

I would only question whether Sun Zi (I prefer his pinyin name and not the Wades-Gile notation) put this into practice; did he assign an enemy to his camp position somewhere?

 

I'm referring mostly to that act of doing something; putting theory into practice... but I'm unsure if Sun Zi ever did such a thing...

 

There are many records throughout history of giving defeated troops postions in an army. The best example would be the Mongols who had a small population but ruled from Hungry to Korea with troops made of Turks & Uighurs who they had defeated. In battle they would make an offer to surrender and join them or fight to the death. It is amazing that these troops defeated the Crusaders, Rus, Cossacks, Northern India, China, Korea and many others in three continents. They held most of it for several generations. Eventually the Empire broke up as cousins in power identified with their fiefs rather than the central power.

 

Sorry this is not exactly Chinese history although they did rule as one of the Chinese dynasties.

[david_dawei]

Sun-tzu has been required reading in war colleges before Lincoln.

 

As far as I can find, Giles published the first English translation in 1910.

It was loosely interpreted into French at the time of Napoleon. I don't know what sections or how acruately. It is a hot debate among Napoleonic scholars whether Napoleon read the interpretation.

english translations are always late in the coming... more than likely, it *could* of been read in another language which early americans were also exposed to.

 

I would only question whether Sun Zi (I prefer his pinyin name and not the Wades-Gile notation) put this into practice; did he assign an enemy to his camp position somewhere?

 

I'm referring mostly to that act of doing something; putting theory into practice... but I'm unsure if Sun Zi ever did such a thing...

 

There are many records throughout history of giving defeated troops postions in an army. The best example would be the Mongols who had a small population but ruled from Hungry to Korea with troops made of Turks & Uighurs who they had defeated. In battle they would make an offer to surrender and join them or fight to the death. It is amazing that these troops defeated the Crusaders, Rus, Cossacks, Northern India, China, Korea and many others in three continents. They held most of it for several generations. Eventually the Empire broke up as cousins in power identified with their fiefs rather than the central power.

 

Sorry this is not exactly Chinese history although they did rule as one of the Chinese dynasties.

yes,that is true... but Han Xin was 1400 years prior to the mongol expansive rule..

 

what is more unique about the mongol way is the absorption of 'foreigners' to advance their needs... The mongol's history may be as fascinating as any; They share some traits we see to their southern neighbor (China) but their life was one unique to the steppe northern territory where horses, pastures, and warfare are cast as savage devils (by those they conquered). There is as much misinformation about them that poured out as any people too. One shocking find was when a [savage] mongol warrior was taken hostage who turned out to be a well educated and skilled european; The ability of these savages to meticulously build the most efficient warrriors based on tactics and engineering is often overlooked... The warrior in this case was sentenced and killed before they could get too much info from him; maybe they just wanted to conceal their finding...

[Dan R]

Sun-tzu has been required reading in war colleges before Lincoln.

 

As far as I can find, Giles published the first English translation in 1910.

It was loosely interpreted into French at the time of Napoleon. I don't know what sections or how acruately. It is a hot debate among Napoleonic scholars whether Napoleon read the interpretation.

english translations are always late in the coming... more than likely, it *could* of been read in another language which early americans were also exposed to.

 

I would only question whether Sun Zi (I prefer his pinyin name and not the Wades-Gile notation) put this into practice; did he assign an enemy to his camp position somewhere?

 

I'm referring mostly to that act of doing something; putting theory into practice... but I'm unsure if Sun Zi ever did such a thing...

 

There are many records throughout history of giving defeated troops postions in an army. The best example would be the Mongols who had a small population but ruled from Hungry to Korea with troops made of Turks & Uighurs who they had defeated. In battle they would make an offer to surrender and join them or fight to the death. It is amazing that these troops defeated the Crusaders, Rus, Cossacks, Northern India, China, Korea and many others in three continents. They held most of it for several generations. Eventually the Empire broke up as cousins in power identified with their fiefs rather than the central power.

 

Sorry this is not exactly Chinese history although they did rule as one of the Chinese dynasties.

yes,that is true... but Han Xin was 1400 years prior to the mongol expansive rule..

 

what is more unique about the mongol way is the absorption of 'foreigners' to advance their needs... The mongol's history may be as fascinating as any; They share some traits we see to their southern neighbor (China) but their life was one unique to the steppe northern territory where horses, pastures, and warfare are cast as savage devils (by those they conquered). There is as much misinformation about them that poured out as any people too. One shocking find was when a [savage] mongol warrior was taken hostage who turned out to be a well educated and skilled european; The ability of these savages to meticulously build the most efficient warrriors based on tactics and engineering is often overlooked... The warrior in this case was sentenced and killed before they could get too much info from him; maybe they just wanted to conceal their finding...

 

The image of the Mongols overlooks a period not of conguering but of rule known as the Pax Mongol. This period allowed European traders to travel from Europe to China. Marco Polo's Father and Uncles were among them. It also brought the printing press into Europe (It took 1000 years for the press to go from Korea through China & Persia to Europe). The Mongolian Empire (The world's largest is also one of the most interesting).

[david_dawei]

the "Mongol Peace" was the great transitional period after Genghis Khan, put in action by his descendents... the great Khan doesn't appear to want to really 'rule' people as much as bring everyone under a Mongol empire. The next great Khan expanded at an incredible rate via conquests.

 

next, was the incredible two-pronged feat of his Gengkis Khan's grandchildren: the warring brother did what all the crusades could not in regards to the Arab world; and the more statesman Kubilai did what native chinese could not in regards to truly unifying and centralizing. Of course, the third prong attempts to take Japan proved a naval disaster... Although they learned the art of naval trade and created international trade on a level never achieved.

 

Commerce and trade flowed in every direction and contact East to West brought the western world a true perspective of these so called 'savage' warriors... Envoys went as far as England. The Pope honored them as well... What seemed to be possibly the setting for a global economy was brought down, not by man, but by rats via the plague... and movement of goods shut down to try and contain the black death.