Proving a Bonifide Relationship

[jst]

I just posted about 15 minutes ago that thailand is a much better option. You can still have the family ceramony in vietnam but go to thailand for the legal marriage, it is also MUCH easier than vietnam

[Bryon_Tran]

I just posted about 15 minutes ago that thailand is a much better option. You can still have the family ceramony in vietnam but go to thailand for the legal marriage, it is also MUCH easier than vietnam

They turned in the paperwork for my fiancee already so we have to wait 6 months before she can file for marrage again. We have paid for the tables dress car cake and everything else. I can change it into a ceramony but get the legal stuff done in Thailand in 6 months from now however I worry because they might ask why I backed out of Ho Chi Minh that will look really bad to them. I can always tell them I coulnd't get off work that long.

[duke]

If someone is refused an immigration visa because VO uses "Non bonafide relationship" reason. Is that rejection forever? What is a '212' reason for rejection? What is a white slip; a Blue slip?

When do you get a chance to 'overcome' and when don't you?

Thanks

[Sebastian]

If someone is refused an immigration visa because VO uses "Non bonafide relationship" reason. Is that rejection forever? it is forever for that petition, you can challenge if you are allowed to challenge, or you can file a new petition What is a '212' reason for rejection? What is a white slip;rejection a Blue slip? GUZ needs more information, and beneficiary or petitioner is allowed to submit more evidence, each blue slip is specific to 'what guz wants'

When do you get a chance to 'overcome' and when don't you? white - usually no chance at guz, blue, usually get a chance at guz after the interview, can take 2 days to 5 months for final adjudication, too many variables to accurately predict 'when'

Thanks

Edited February 20, 2009 by Sebastian (see edit history)

[duke]

If someone is refused an immigration visa because VO uses "Non bonafide relationship" reason. Is that rejection forever? it is forever for that petition, you can challenge if you are allowed to challenge, or you can file a new petition What is a '212' reason for rejection? What is a white slip;rejection a Blue slip? GUZ needs more information, and beneficiary or petitioner is allowed to submit more evidence, each blue slip is specific to 'what guz wants'

When do you get a chance to 'overcome' and when don't you? white - usually no chance at guz, blue, usually get a chance at guz after the interview, can take 2 days to 5 months for final adjudication, too many variables to accurately predict 'when'

Thanks

What determines if you can challenge? and how ?

[Randy W]

A (white slip) visa denial is final - it may not be appealed, overcome, or rebutted.

 

What MAY be appealed, overcome, or rebutted is the petition. A white slip is a notice that the petition will be sent back to the USCIS for possible revocation. If this is successfully appealed, overcome, or rebutted, the petition will be re-affirmed, and a visa possibly awarded based on the re-affirmed petition.

 

This is very rare, however. Most simply start over and file a new petition, which generally is successful.

 

So while a visa refusal is final, you can always try again.

[Randy W]

 

What determines if you can challenge? and how ?

 

You watch your mailbox for any communications from the USCIS. It will be a NOID notice of intent to deny hearing, or possibly a request for more information, as happened to one of our members

 

Usually, however, you won't hear from them at all, and all you can do is file a new petition.

Edited February 20, 2009 by Randy W (see edit history)

[duke]

I'm not sure how much weight the VO would place on just one or two affidavits...

This whole issue of submitting affidavits has had me worried since I submitted my I-130. I had asked several people to write a statement for me, but only one came through for me. I didn't want to hold up my submission, so I sent it in with only one sworn affidavit. My I-130 was approved, but now I'm worried about only having one affidavit on file when the case gets to GUZ. So... I guess my question now is... should I get my butt in gear and try to get a few more of these statements before the interview? My mother and daughter are traveling to China next month to attend our wedding ceremony, so that will give them first-hand knowledge of my relationship as well as provide the opportunity to take many family photos. I'm still in the NVC stage, so there's time... but when is the best time to "add" these statements? At the interview... Or will that be too late? And would they only be able to be presented if they are asked for by the VO? Thanks.

What is a '212' lifetime ban??

[Randy W]

Section 212 of the INA - http://travel.state.gov/visa/frvi/ineligib...ities_1364.html

 

 

from Denials of Family-Based Immigrant Visas at Consulates and DHS Petition Revocation, by Marc Ellis

 

So when the consulate returns our petitioner¡¯s approved K-1 petition to USCIS, it will put a 212(a)(6)©(1) marker, called a ¡°P6C1¡± marker, or a ¡°quasi-refusal¡± in the beneficiary¡¯s record. If DHS decides at a later date to revoke that petition, a hard 212(a)6©(i) finding can kick in.

 

It is a lifetime ban which can only be brought against your beneficiary in a US court of law. The whole point of Marc Ellis' legal discussion is simple - watch your mailbox for any communications from the USCIS. You WILL get a chance to represent yourself.

 

(i) In general.-Any alien who, by fraud or willfully misrepresenting a material fact, seeks to procure (or has sought to procure or has procured) a visa, other documentation, or admission into the United States or other benefit provided under this Act is inadmissible.

Edited February 20, 2009 by Randy W (see edit history)

[defendo]

Obviously GUZ has taken a position that if a common language is not spoken, then a bona fide relationship does not exist. Does any one know if there is any written policy or guidance issued by the DOS that reflects this assumption. I personally believe it is BS. My wife and I are able to communicate with each other effectively, she speaks her broken English and speak my horrible Chinese, and if there is still an need for more effective communication, we can use a translation device or software.

 

In fact, I am personally aware of several marriages where neither party speaks the others language. In one such case, they have been married for four years. The were approved in GUZ without a problem over two years ago.

 

I am sure this is one issue that was used to claim my wife and I do not have a bona fide relationship. I am getting ready to file another petition and I would like to address this language issue right up front. Any suggestions.

 

Thanks

Jay

[Guest jin979]

Obviously GUZ has taken a position that if a common language is not spoken, then a bona fide relationship does not exist. Does any one know if there is any written policy or guidance issued by the DOS that reflects this assumption. I personally believe it is BS. My wife and I are able to communicate with each other effectively, she speaks her broken English and speak my horrible Chinese, and if there is still an need for more effective communication, we can use a translation device or software.

 

In fact, I am personally aware of several marriages where neither party speaks the others language. In one such case, they have been married for four years. The were approved in GUZ without a problem over two years ago.

 

I am sure this is one issue that was used to claim my wife and I do not have a bona fide relationship. I am getting ready to file another petition and I would like to address this language issue right up front. Any suggestions.

 

Thanks

Jay

 

 

i believe things have changed at GUZ, ability to prove ability of communication to eachother seems to very important now. easist way to do this is for the benificiary to learn even very simple english. this can be obtained for free off internet, no need for payed classes. I think this also shows the VO serious intent from Benificiary.

[defendo]

Obviously GUZ has taken a position that if a common language is not spoken, then a bona fide relationship does not exist. Does any one know if there is any written policy or guidance issued by the DOS that reflects this assumption. I personally believe it is BS. My wife and I are able to communicate with each other effectively, she speaks her broken English and speak my horrible Chinese, and if there is still an need for more effective communication, we can use a translation device or software.

 

In fact, I am personally aware of several marriages where neither party speaks the others language. In one such case, they have been married for four years. The were approved in GUZ without a problem over two years ago.

 

I am sure this is one issue that was used to claim my wife and I do not have a bona fide relationship. I am getting ready to file another petition and I would like to address this language issue right up front. Any suggestions.

 

Thanks

Jay

 

 

i believe things have changed at GUZ, ability to prove ability of communication to eachother seems to very important now. easist way to do this is for the benificiary to learn even very simple english. this can be obtained for free off internet, no need for payed classes. I think this also shows the VO serious intent from Benificiary.

 

I think this is much easier said then done. Having studied Chinese for 1 1/2 years, I have found this to be the hardest thing I have ever done in my life... And I am no way able to engage in conversational Chinese. I think learning English for Chinese people is just as hard. My wife is only 10 years younger than me and she was not required to take English in school. Both her daughter and son are able to speak some English because it is now required. When my wife was interviewed, she was asked if she could read my emails. My wife was honest and said she could not. However, most of my emails also contain a Chinese translation, but that did not matter.

 

I think this is an invalid issue and is not a FACTUAL BASIS for determining whether or not a relationship is bona fide.

[Guest Pommey]

Obviously GUZ has taken a position that if a common language is not spoken, then a bona fide relationship does not exist. Does any one know if there is any written policy or guidance issued by the DOS that reflects this assumption. I personally believe it is BS. My wife and I are able to communicate with each other effectively, she speaks her broken English and speak my horrible Chinese, and if there is still an need for more effective communication, we can use a translation device or software.

 

In fact, I am personally aware of several marriages where neither party speaks the others language. In one such case, they have been married for four years. The were approved in GUZ without a problem over two years ago.

 

I am sure this is one issue that was used to claim my wife and I do not have a bona fide relationship. I am getting ready to file another petition and I would like to address this language issue right up front. Any suggestions.

 

Thanks

Jay

 

 

i believe things have changed at GUZ, ability to prove ability of communication to eachother seems to very important now. easist way to do this is for the benificiary to learn even very simple english. this can be obtained for free off internet, no need for payed classes. I think this also shows the VO serious intent from Benificiary.

 

I think this is much easier said then done. Having studied Chinese for 1 1/2 years, I have found this to be the hardest thing I have ever done in my life... And I am no way able to engage in conversational Chinese. I think learning English for Chinese people is just as hard. My wife is only 10 years younger than me and she was not required to take English in school. Both her daughter and son are able to speak some English because it is now required. When my wife was interviewed, she was asked if she could read my emails. My wife was honest and said she could not. However, most of my emails also contain a Chinese translation, but that did not matter.

 

I think this is an invalid issue and is not a FACTUAL BASIS for determining whether or not a relationship is bona fide.

 

 

http://candleforlove.com/forums/index.php?...st&p=477413

[Tom and Ling]

Obviously GUZ has taken a position that if a common language is not spoken, then a bona fide relationship does not exist. Does any one know if there is any written policy or guidance issued by the DOS that reflects this assumption. I personally believe it is BS. My wife and I are able to communicate with each other effectively, she speaks her broken English and speak my horrible Chinese, and if there is still an need for more effective communication, we can use a translation device or software.

 

In fact, I am personally aware of several marriages where neither party speaks the others language. In one such case, they have been married for four years. The were approved in GUZ without a problem over two years ago.

 

I am sure this is one issue that was used to claim my wife and I do not have a bona fide relationship. I am getting ready to file another petition and I would like to address this language issue right up front. Any suggestions.

 

Thanks

Jay

 

Hi Jay,

 

I wrote a Letter of Evolution of Marital Relationship and had it notarized in GUZ before my wife's interview. Since you are going to submit another I-130,, you need to submit a Letter of Evolution of Marital Relationship with the I-130 and if you submit an I-129F submit it again with the I-129F. But I suggest that if you submit another I-130 you also submit an I-129F for K3,,this way if the K3 is denied you have the I-130 to fall back on.

As far as English goes, I submitted this in the Letter of Evolution of Marital Relationship:

"We bought a sentence electronic translator on my first visit to help our communication but now only use it when detailed questions are asked between the two of us. It is note worthy that Ling and I could even at first meeting communicate in simple English. This was because Ling had a fair grasp of written English that she could understand me. For communication we use a combination of spoken English, written English on a note pad and for detailed questions an electronic translator."

 

Hope this helps,,feel free to write if you have any questions.

 

Tom and Ling

[defendo]

Obviously GUZ has taken a position that if a common language is not spoken, then a bona fide relationship does not exist. Does any one know if there is any written policy or guidance issued by the DOS that reflects this assumption. I personally believe it is BS. My wife and I are able to communicate with each other effectively, she speaks her broken English and speak my horrible Chinese, and if there is still an need for more effective communication, we can use a translation device or software.

 

In fact, I am personally aware of several marriages where neither party speaks the others language. In one such case, they have been married for four years. The were approved in GUZ without a problem over two years ago.

 

I am sure this is one issue that was used to claim my wife and I do not have a bona fide relationship. I am getting ready to file another petition and I would like to address this language issue right up front. Any suggestions.

 

Thanks

Jay

 

Hi Jay,

 

I wrote a Letter of Evolution of Marital Relationship and had it notarized in GUZ before my wife's interview. Since you are going to submit another I-130,, you need to submit a Letter of Evolution of Marital Relationship with the I-130 and if you submit an I-129F submit it again with the I-129F. But I suggest that if you submit another I-130 you also submit an I-129F for K3,,this way if the K3 is denied you have the I-130 to fall back on.

As far as English goes, I submitted this in the Letter of Evolution of Marital Relationship:

"We bought a sentence electronic translator on my first visit to help our communication but now only use it when detailed questions are asked between the two of us. It is note worthy that Ling and I could even at first meeting communicate in simple English. This was because Ling had a fair grasp of written English that she could understand me. For communication we use a combination of spoken English, written English on a note pad and for detailed questions an electronic translator."

 

Hope this helps,,feel free to write if you have any questions.

 

Tom and Ling

 

Thanks Tom,

 

My plan is to file a I-129 Petition for a K-3 since I will not be charged another filing fee because I have already paid that when I filed my I-130 petition. Except I am heeding the advice I found on this site to "front load" the I-129. My I-130 is in a black hole somewhere. I have tried to trace it, but NVC says DHS has it and DHS says NVC has it. I would like to rebut the denial, but who knows when that opportunity will be given to me.

 

I will also incorporate your suggestion to include an evolution of relationship letter.

 

I would appreciate any feedback if my strategy of filing a subsequent "front loaded" I-129 petition is sound and appropriate. The only other option is to file another I-130, but I have read several post that discourage this approach while the original I-130 is still "pending".

 

Jay