Avoiding Red Flags

[splinterman]

I agree with C4Racer,

 

if you think you have a red flag, provide it and an explanation to USCIS and your app gets to GUZ, then they can not use that against you and your spouse/fiancee. This still doesn't guarantee getting the visa, but success should be a little easier.

Front load with letter of evolution of Relationship....

 

 

 

 

Tom and Ling

The hole in this argument is GZ doesn't white slip for any of those reasons. They use the catch all irrefutable, not bona fide relationship.

 

 

IMHO, I think that GUZ DOES white slip for any of these reasons, but simply uses the excuse of NABR to immediately justify the refusal. Doing it that way allows them to keep the true reason(s) for their refusal 'secret' until much later in the return process when the petitioner has a better chance at getting the VO's notes or specific reasons in the NOID/NOIR letter from USCIS.

[splinterman]

Yes - I believe that the business about "they can not use that against you and your spouse/fiancee"is WAY overblown. It is also illegal for them to give a visa to someone they feel is in a non-bona fide relationship.

 

You can bet if they come to that conclusion, you WILL get a white slip, with a completely legal reason on the white slip. My advice is to be VERY CAREFUL about providing ammunition - even if it is "okayed by the USCIS".

 

 

Yes Randy, it's a lot like telling on one's self. While trying to disarm any potential landmines with USCIS and later GUZ by front loading, looking at it from another perspective could result in giving GUZ more reasons to look deeper and ultimately scrutinize an application more thoroughly and ultimately use one of those issues/items to deny.

 

Even if GUZ does 'illegally' white slip someone for an issue that was fully disclosed,explained or documented in the petition it will still result in the return of that file and place the time element into the waiting process-and I think that has a lot to do with what GUZ is trying to do with many of the applications.

 

With no immediate review or oversight of denied petitions, it's akin to total authority with what they wish to achieve and however they want to achieve it. The only way the visa process is going to change and adhere to the regs is for there to be transparency and immediate accountability for the VOs decisions. Until that happens we're going to continue to see BS language like Not a Bona Fide Relationship when it really means something else has been pinpointed.

[Tom and Ling]

By avoiding red flags you can increase your chances of getting the Pink. I have researched many sites to come up with a list of the main http://candleforlove.com/forums/style_imag...s/centre.gifRed Flags. My hope is that this post will serve as a resource to our many current and future members.

 

If you know of any that I have overlooked, please post them or PM me and I will add them in.

 

If you already have some of the listed red flags, you can attach an explanation for them to your file at USCIS. That is, if it has not already been approved and sent to the NVC.

 

Red Flags

 

Petitioner:

1. Petitioner is employed by or has a business relationship with a relative of beneficiary;

2. Petitioner submits phone records that show he uses a residential phone number that is listed in the name of another person.

3. US divorce followed very quickly by an engagement to foreign beneficiary.

4. Long gaps of time between the petitioner & beneficiary being together in person.

5. Failure to disclose previous petitions filed on behalf of other Beneficiaries

6. Petitioner resides with family members of the beneficiary in the US;

7. Infrequent contributions of money.

8. You didn¡¯t include your wife as non-resident alien on your tax return.

 

Beneficiary:

1. Failure to disclose previous petitions filed by other petitioners.

2. Previous petition not responded to resulting in a 212(a)(6)©(i)

3. Short time from divorce to marriage with petitioner;

4. CCP membership

5. No written consent from ex-husband for child to immigrate.

6. She has relatives in U.S. helping with process.

7. She commits a misrepresentation (or the appearance of) during the interview.

 

Both:

1. A very brief courtship followed by a plunge into matrimony;

2. A marriage ceremony arranged only a short time after petitioner arrives in the beneficiary¡¯s country and they meet for the first time;

Ling was a widow and I was separated in Nov. 2005 and my divorce was final in Dec. 2006. I met ling on line August 2007 and we communicated for 7 months before I flew to China and we both agreed that when we met face to face that if we still felt the same way about each other ,than we would marry,,and we did marry 4 to 5 days after my first visit to China. And a wedding dinner 4 days after our marriage registation. The details of all this was put in my letter of evolution of Relationship

 

3. No common language;

 

I don't know whether we had no common language or not...But in the EOR I put that our English was fair as far as e-mails, that we used a note book to write in English when we were together because Ling was better at translation than speaking English,and that we had bought a sentence translator for more detailed conversation...this was also in our EOR and front loaded for the I-129F

4. A large age difference between the petitioner and the beneficiary.

 

Age difference...who knows.....

 

Ling and I are 25 years apart but I don't think that makes a difference except that they might have speeded up my petition because of that

 

I kind of wish the age difference would be explained???

Frankly I think women VO's have a problem with age difference than men VO's...just my opinion.....Men VO's may think a male petitioner marrying a young Chinese woman is WOW verses a female VO may think of it as rocking the cradle...just my opinion.

 

5. There is little or no documentary evidence of the relationship prior to the actual engagement.

This is why I think 6 months of communication should take place before actually going to China...and this is my opinion only,,....

 

6. Failure to disclose previous marriages;

This is a big one and I would be surprised if anyone didn't disclose previous marriages.

 

7. Spouse is a friend of the family.

8. Family or friends unaware of marriage.

My Family and friends knew of the marriage and in fact for both my I-130 and I-129F...I had 5 affidavits for both of the petitions and I had friends rather than anyone from either of the families give an Affidavit.

 

9. Few common interests.

 

I am not sure how any VO would determine "Few common interests"??

 

10. Poor evidence of day to day contact.

 

Hi Steve,

 

Good list and I have put my answers in your qoute...I frankly would like the age difference explained.....

 

Tom and Ling

[AmericanWoman]

By avoiding red flags you can increase your chances of getting the Pink. I have researched many sites to come up with a list of the main Red Flags. My hope is that this post will serve as a resource to our many current and future members.

 

If you know of any that I have overlooked, please post them or PM me and I will add them in.

 

If you already have some of the listed red flags, you can attach an explanation for them to your file at USCIS. That is, if it has not already been approved and sent to the NVC.

 

Red Flags

 

Petitioner:

1. Petitioner is employed by or has a business relationship with a relative of beneficiary;

2. Petitioner submits phone records that show he uses a residential phone number that is listed in the name of another person.

3. US divorce followed very quickly by an engagement to foreign beneficiary.

4. Long gaps of time between the petitioner & beneficiary being together in person.

5. Failure to disclose previous petitions filed on behalf of other Beneficiaries

6. Petitioner resides with family members of the beneficiary in the US;

7. Infrequent contributions of money.

8. You didn¡¯t include your wife as non-resident alien on your tax return.

 

Beneficiary:

1. Failure to disclose previous petitions filed by other petitioners.

2. Previous petition not responded to resulting in a 212(a)(6)©(i)

3. Short time from divorce to marriage with petitioner;

4. CCP membership

5. No written consent from ex-husband for child to immigrate.

6. She has relatives in U.S. helping with process.

7. She commits a misrepresentation (or the appearance of) during the interview.

 

Both:

1. A very brief courtship followed by a plunge into matrimony;

2. A marriage ceremony arranged only a short time after petitioner arrives in the beneficiary¡¯s country and they meet for the first time;

3. No common language;

4. A large age difference between the petitioner and the beneficiary.

5. There is little or no documentary evidence of the relationship prior to the actual engagement.

6. Failure to disclose previous marriages;

7. Spouse is a friend of the family.

8. Family or friends unaware of marriage.

9. Few common interests.

10. Poor evidence of day to day contact.

 

Great post, thanks! Regarding #8 for the petitioner - this may be a stupid question, can you file taxes for your fiancee or only SPOUSE? Just curious as tax time is coming up...thanx

AW

[Tom and Ling]

 

 

Great post, thanks! Regarding #8 for the petitioner - this may be a stupid question, can you file taxes for your fiancee or only SPOUSE? Just curious as tax time is coming up...thanx

AW

 

Hi AmericanWoman,

 

You can only file for wife/husband not fiancee.

The ones filing for wife/husband have to get an Individual tax number if they are not in the US or if they are in the US a SS number, and if no SS# then an Individual tax number.

 

Tom and Ling

[NUWORLD]

My wife even had a pass divorce. RED FLAG?? Maybe!

But ether way our papers flew through the system with no problems.

 

 

Dang Nuworld that has got to be a record

and no sir I ain't pickin on you... so don't go there... please?

as long as the both of you are happy thats all that matters

I hope y'all live together and or happy for the next 100 years

 

 

No problem buddy, I understand.

At least I'm in the CFL record books now!

And yes, We are doing great and doing very well.

Look out 100 years, Here we come!!

[Stepbrow]

I am hoping to get some ideas from our Chinese SO's about red flags for the SO. I think that the doubt created by the red flags has mostly to do with the ConOff not believing that the SO has bonifide feelings for the Petitioner.

 

Any ideas?

[Bryon_Tran]

4. Long gaps of time between the petitioner & beneficiary being together in person.

#4 I only get 2 weeks off a year so there is always going to be a year between visits unless I can earn extra time off somehow. Is this going to be a problem if you talk every day?

7. Infrequent contributions of money.

#7 Sometimes I have more money to send sometimes less. Depending on how much I need to spend on heeting oil. What if I send 200 a month then after marrage I start sending 300 or 400 a month would that throw up a red flag?

 

Beneficiary:

 

2. Previous petition not responded to resulting in a 212(a)(6)©(i)

#2 I was told our prev petition expired so I would have to do a new one and she was not given anything in the mail to respond to. She did email once after the denial to try to get them to change there ruling but should I have her write letters and do more since she will not get the chance to respond?

4. CCP membership

#4 what is CCP membership?

 

7. She commits a misrepresentation (or the appearance of) during the interview.

I don't know if this is considered misrepresentation but at the bottom of the denial it says

These facts as asertained by the consular officers would convicnce a reasonable person that the claimed relationshp is a sham entered into solely for immigration purposes and to evade immigration laws.

Is this going to be considered fraud to them and hurt us on our next petition?

 

Both:

 

5. There is little or no documentary evidence of the relationship prior to the actual engagement.

I didn't have much evedince maybe 20 emails 5 or more letters and a few phone calls. I would have had more phone calls but the phone service I have only keeps records for 90 days and I didn't know that so I could only go back a month before the engagement.

9. Few common interests.

We have a few common interests but they didn't ask her any of those durning the interview and once we start living together we will have more im sure of it.

[shadeOgray]

CCP is the communist party.

[david_dawei]

4. Long gaps of time between the petitioner & beneficiary being together in person.

#4 I only get 2 weeks off a year so there is always going to be a year between visits unless I can earn extra time off somehow. Is this going to be a problem if you talk every day?

7. Infrequent contributions of money.

#7 Sometimes I have more money to send sometimes less. Depending on how much I need to spend on heeting oil. What if I send 200 a month then after marrage I start sending 300 or 400 a month would that throw up a red flag?

 

Beneficiary:

 

2. Previous petition not responded to resulting in a 212(a)(6)©(i)

#2 I was told our prev petition expired so I would have to do a new one and she was not given anything in the mail to respond to. She did email once after the denial to try to get them to change there ruling but should I have her write letters and do more since she will not get the chance to respond?

4. CCP membership

#4 what is CCP membership?

 

7. She commits a misrepresentation (or the appearance of) during the interview.

I don't know if this is considered misrepresentation but at the bottom of the denial it says

These facts as asertained by the consular officers would convicnce a reasonable person that the claimed relationshp is a sham entered into solely for immigration purposes and to evade immigration laws.

Is this going to be considered fraud to them and hurt us on our next petition?

 

Both:

 

5. There is little or no documentary evidence of the relationship prior to the actual engagement.

I didn't have much evedince maybe 20 emails 5 or more letters and a few phone calls. I would have had more phone calls but the phone service I have only keeps records for 90 days and I didn't know that so I could only go back a month before the engagement.

9. Few common interests.

We have a few common interests but they didn't ask her any of those durning the interview and once we start living together we will have more im sure of it.

time apart plays into the whole picture; sending money is sometimes not viewed favorably if K1... best to not mention it without it being asked. Just send her according to what you want, not what you are afraid they are expecting (or not expecting).

 

Your biggest issue is the previous denial. It appears to be quite important to have dealt with the reasons for the denial in the second filing... otherwise, there may not be anything new in the second petition that they would consider as offering a new reason to approve it.

 

if the case is back in the US, you can try to contact USCIS to get the reason for the denial. It goes through NVC on the way back to the US, so they can be contacted too, if not back yet...

Edited January 22, 2009 by DavidZixuan (see edit history)

[Bryon_Tran]

time apart plays into the whole picture; sending money is sometimes not viewed favorably if K1... best to not mention it without it being asked. Just send her according to what you want, not what you are afraid they are expecting (or not expecting).

 

Your biggest issue is the previous denial. It appears to be quite important to have dealt with the reasons for the denial in the second filing... otherwise, there may not be anything new in the second petition that they would consider as offering a new reason to approve it.

 

if the case is back in the US, you can try to contact USCIS to get the reason for the denial. It goes through NVC on the way back to the US, so they can be contacted too, if not back yet...

Ok cool I will go over to see her 2 times to complete marriage then once after six months and again when she has her interview if she doesnt get the visa after that it will be once a year unless I get more time off. I did send money many times and that was given for her K1 interview didn't think that would hurt us however she will be my wife soon so it should be ok to send her money. I will be sending her 3,000 for her to purchase the tables for the wedding and all the other stuff dress rental, car rental,pig,picitures, cake and other stuff that goes with the wedding. I was going to submitt that as proof but maybe I wont now.

 

I have an attorny helping me write a revocation Marcus Ellis so that should help disarming them for the second interview. My senators case worker is also writing something. Not sure if I can use both maybe some of each to make a good one.

[david_dawei]

the money issue is just difficult to know how it will be viewed by any given VO...

 

I tend to feel that a best practice is not to voluntarily show the payments as relationship evidence; let it get asked if a VO wants and then tell the truth...

 

but every case is unique and there could be cases where using that as support makes sense, but I'm not hearing that so far in your case.

 

You sound like you do have a thoughtful plan and the right attorney to help you in preparing and advising...

[cguo7]

Hi, I'm hoping you could give me a little advice because you seem very knowledgeable on the visa process. I noticed in this original post that one of the red flags was the "communist party membership" and my husband was part of this to earn more in his salary. He has not paid the membership fees for over a year now and the idea is that he will get a letter from the party secretary to show he isn't part of the party anymore (if he doesn't pay more than 3 months, then he's automatically out of the party). He's been reading a lot of chinese visa forums and many people have said that because they were part of the CP, they were given white slips. This has happened with more frequency since Oct. 2008. Prior to that, most people were able to get pink even if they were part of the CP. Have you heard anything about this? I'm a little worried about this and any info. would be helpful since I haven't read too many things about VO's asking about this during interviews. Thanks.

 

I hate to bring this up and don't want to put salt in anyones

wound but,

I'm not trying to start a pi$$in contest but, some folks got pink

and had only known there other half a few weeks.

 

This is true, but with whites slips basically skyrocketing I believe what could have been overlooked in the past is now being scrutinized through a microscope. We also don't know where this new directive could be coming from, but I doubt GUZ is acting on their own. It is probably a mixture of new directives sent from DOS based on the recent case ruling and from the station head because GUZ has a bad face with DOS now.

 

This list is quite good. The best way to deal with any and all red flags is to front load your application. Remember the rules the VO must live by, they can only use any evidence not available to USCIS to deny. This means if you think you have a red flag, provide it and an explanation to USCIS and your app gets to GUZ, then they can not use that against you and your spouse/fiancee. This still doesn't guarantee getting the visa, but success should be a little easier.

[david_dawei]

Hi, I'm hoping you could give me a little advice because you seem very knowledgeable on the visa process. I noticed in this original post that one of the red flags was the "communist party membership" and my husband was part of this to earn more in his salary. He has not paid the membership fees for over a year now and the idea is that he will get a letter from the party secretary to show he isn't part of the party anymore (if he doesn't pay more than 3 months, then he's automatically out of the party). He's been reading a lot of chinese visa forums and many people have said that because they were part of the CP, they were given white slips. This has happened with more frequency since Oct. 2008. Prior to that, most people were able to get pink even if they were part of the CP. Have you heard anything about this? I'm a little worried about this and any info. would be helpful since I haven't read too many things about VO's asking about this during interviews. Thanks.

I think the only time you will face this in a document is when the DS-230 Part II is filled out... it will ask the question about "affiliation" with the party. You'll have to decide how best to honestly answer that. If you can answer NO, do so...

 

The other time it might come up is if the VO asks if you are a "member"... again, you'll have to decide what is the honest answer to this. If it is "NO"... answer as so and don't provide more info unless asked....

 

A member once answered and then provided more info which made the VO realize that they were in fact circumstances which could be still active membership... Just answer the questions factual and briefly and let the VO ask for more info as needed...

[cguo7]

thank you davidzixuan. Going through all the ccp posts was exhausting and you've helped to verify what i thought was correct.

Hi, I'm hoping you could give me a little advice because you seem very knowledgeable on the visa process. I noticed in this original post that one of the red flags was the "communist party membership" and my husband was part of this to earn more in his salary. He has not paid the membership fees for over a year now and the idea is that he will get a letter from the party secretary to show he isn't part of the party anymore (if he doesn't pay more than 3 months, then he's automatically out of the party). He's been reading a lot of chinese visa forums and many people have said that because they were part of the CP, they were given white slips. This has happened with more frequency since Oct. 2008. Prior to that, most people were able to get pink even if they were part of the CP. Have you heard anything about this? I'm a little worried about this and any info. would be helpful since I haven't read too many things about VO's asking about this during interviews. Thanks.

I think the only time you will face this in a document is when the DS-230 Part II is filled out... it will ask the question about "affiliation" with the party. You'll have to decide how best to honestly answer that. If you can answer NO, do so...

 

The other time it might come up is if the VO asks if you are a "member"... again, you'll have to decide what is the honest answer to this. If it is "NO"... answer as so and don't provide more info unless asked....

 

A member once answered and then provided more info which made the VO realize that they were in fact circumstances which could be still active membership... Just answer the questions factual and briefly and let the VO ask for more info as needed...