Has anyone considered...

[406camaro]

Just curious if the idea of a class action suit against DOS has ever been tossed around?

 

Everyone who is denied a VISA is being called a liar. An engagement/marriage is a partnership. They are calling us both liars!

 

It is the basis of western law that you have a chance to confront your accuser and have access to all evidence being used in the accusation. We are being denied that. They seem to sit on our petitions indefinately and hope we just go away.

 

Larry, you summed up what a lot of people find out when dealing with the DOS in hot sweaty Guangzhou...and, yes, they do sit on those petitions, and yes, they do hope you will go away. And even worse, once the DOS finally sends the petition back to america, those denied petitions are at the very bottom of the USCIS service center workers priority of things to do.

 

To quickly sum up, in layman terms, what you'll find in Toppy's report....At the time of writing the law, Congress wrote themselves out of being able to help you, should you have a problem with a consulate...at the same time they also wrote your rights out of the law.

 

Hang in there buddy. It sucks, bigtime, what you and many others are faced with, but, try and take some inspiration from the two Charles' whose wives just got their visas. Your beautiful woman will get her visa, but it's gonna take some time. I wish I could tell you a shortcut or a secret code or something, but there aren't any.

 

It just takes more time....she WILL get her visa.

 

tsap seui

this is exactly why i think tsap should have some kind of position on this board,as either moderator are peace keeper, he has a potiential to calm people down and help them. yes i know i am new kid on the block . im not very smart

Edited November 17, 2008 by 406camaro (see edit history)

[steveandrong]

 

 

Also, they have lots of information behind the scene. GUZ has already made up their mind before the interview. In cases with a positive aspect, they will look at what your SO might have to help them make a snap decision one way or other. This is the only time they will look at any information your SO has brought with them. Cases with a neutral aspect where they want more time will get a blue slip. Cases with a negative aspect receive a white slip. When you get a blue or white, it really doesn't matter what you bring to the interview. Even if you have what they ask for, they will not look at it because the blue slip is asking for more time than is available at the interview to make a decision.

 

 

 

I guess they way i feel about all this is, if GUZ needs more time to look into the case, then why do they bother giving an interview date when they obviously are not ready to render a decision?....If they need further documentation, as in our case and some others, DNA tests, then why do they not inform the beneficiaries of this prior to the interview?....A lot of the blue slips and white slips could be avoided if only GUZ would communicate the issues they have with each suspect case prior to giving an interview date....just seems to make sense to me.

[bob&haiqing]

Sorry, if you feel I am swallowing all of the propaganda that GUZ and DOS dish out. Quite the contrary. I also believe that it would be best for the petitioner and beneficiary to both be part of the interview. One way to help determine a relationship is to see how the parties interact with each other. This would require longer interviews. Yeah, like that's gonna happen anytime soon. Still I can't run to court just because it might piss me off. There is a difference between swallowing propaganda and understanding the how or why things work the way they do.

 

It doesn't matter how pissed off or stressed you become, that is not something you can take to a court of law. You must show you've been hurt and that their is some remedy which can make you whole. Trying to take this to court will just be like pissing in the wind. The best course of action would be to try and get the laws changed. I would suggest starting by joining an organization like the one posted here.

 

Hey Michael,

 

I agree with what you're saying. I've also thought it would be nice for the USC and the beneficiary to interview together, what better way for us to show the sincerity of our relationships. I've also thought "why doesn't GUZ do this?" and other than the possibity of longer interviews I think the real reason may be this: If the USC is allowed at the interview and they feel that their "rights" in this legal process have been violated in some way, it would now open up a big bag of worms regarding potential law suits. GUZ would basically be handing the USC the ammunition they need to justify a law suit and challenge the law as it's currently written where as it stands now the USC has none. Keeping the USC out of the interview keeps this door of opportunity closed.

 

You are also very right about your next statement. We in this visa process have to remeber that no matter how emotionally invested we are in this visa process it is not about "our LOVE" ... it is a legal process pure and simple. There is nothing in the visa laws to my knowledge that states a visa will be issued based on how much you love one another.

 

I think we're all best served to keep our emotions at bay when dealing with the USCIS, DOS and GUZ and work to understand the law and the process as best we can in order to navigate it successfully. Will this guarantee success? No. Will it increase your odds of success? Definitely, and if you run into the brick wall that some here on CFL have you also have some good resources here to help you find a way around it.

 

I can understand where some would want to band together and start a class action law suit to challenge GUZ authority but think of the time, money and emotionally draining effort this would take. Read toplaws post to get a good perspective on what you'd be up against. It could take many more years to challenge and change this than it would to work through the process as it now stands and find another way to the visa, after all, is that not the real goal?

 

Follow the perfect reference tsap seui made to this, persistance!

 

Best of luck to everyone!

Bob

[bob&haiqing]

Also, they have lots of information behind the scene. GUZ has already made up their mind before the interview. In cases with a positive aspect, they will look at what your SO might have to help them make a snap decision one way or other. This is the only time they will look at any information your SO has brought with them. Cases with a neutral aspect where they want more time will get a blue slip. Cases with a negative aspect receive a white slip. When you get a blue or white, it really doesn't matter what you bring to the interview. Even if you have what they ask for, they will not look at it because the blue slip is asking for more time than is available at the interview to make a decision.

I guess they way i feel about all this is, if GUZ needs more time to look into the case, then why do they bother giving an interview date when they obviously are not ready to render a decision?....If they need further documentation, as in our case and some others, DNA tests, then why do they not inform the beneficiaries of this prior to the interview?....A lot of the blue slips and white slips could be avoided if only GUZ would communicate the issues they have with each suspect case prior to giving an interview date....just seems to make sense to me.

Hey Steve,

 

Perhaps someone can give a more knowledgeable answer than mine but I think they don't do this because it would add an extra step in the process for all applications instead of some applications.

 

Prior to the interview GUZ only has the info from the P1 package and P3 package (which they have only had for a short period of time) besides anything that was collected behind the scenes as Michael made reference to. In many cases, such as ours, this was enough information along with the P4 package information taken to the interview for GUZ to issue a pink and the visa. If GUZ required all applicants to send in the P4 forms for review so they could then request more information such as the DNA test you mentioned prior to issuing an interview date, it could add several months to everyone's visa application instead of only some applications.

 

I don't know what percentage of all applicants receive a pink at interview but if that number is reasonably high and they added all those back into the process due to the addition of another step the backlog could choke the system as we now know it and everyone might have to wait much longer.

 

Who volunteers to wait longer? NOT ME!

 

Have a terrific day!

Bob

[warpedbored]

Mike hit the nail on the head. Your sweet heart is not an American citizen being held for trial in the US. She has no rights to receive a visa. Because of this you have no case for a lawsuit. You are completely at the the mercy of the consulate.

 

The sad fact of the matter is that average Joe Six pack on the street could give a rats ass if your sweet heart ever gets a visa. He is more likely to be anti immigration than pro. He thinks foreigners are out to take his job away from him. Politicians know this and they aren't going to stick their necks out and commit political suicide by changing the laws.

 

If you want to help try to change things your best option is to get behind a group like American Families United.

[steveandrong]

Also, they have lots of information behind the scene. GUZ has already made up their mind before the interview. In cases with a positive aspect, they will look at what your SO might have to help them make a snap decision one way or other. This is the only time they will look at any information your SO has brought with them. Cases with a neutral aspect where they want more time will get a blue slip. Cases with a negative aspect receive a white slip. When you get a blue or white, it really doesn't matter what you bring to the interview. Even if you have what they ask for, they will not look at it because the blue slip is asking for more time than is available at the interview to make a decision.

I guess they way i feel about all this is, if GUZ needs more time to look into the case, then why do they bother giving an interview date when they obviously are not ready to render a decision?....If they need further documentation, as in our case and some others, DNA tests, then why do they not inform the beneficiaries of this prior to the interview?....A lot of the blue slips and white slips could be avoided if only GUZ would communicate the issues they have with each suspect case prior to giving an interview date....just seems to make sense to me.

Hey Steve,

 

Perhaps someone can give a more knowledgeable answer than mine but I think they don't do this because it would add an extra step in the process for all applications instead of some applications.

 

Prior to the interview GUZ only has the info from the P1 package and P3 package (which they have only had for a short period of time) besides anything that was collected behind the scenes as Michael made reference to. In many cases, such as ours, this was enough information along with the P4 package information taken to the interview for GUZ to issue a pink and the visa. If GUZ required all applicants to send in the P4 forms for review so they could then request more information such as the DNA test you mentioned prior to issuing an interview date, it could add several months to everyone's visa application instead of only some applications.

 

I don't know what percentage of all applicants receive a pink at interview but if that number is reasonably high and they added all those back into the process due to the addition of another step the backlog could choke the system as we now know it and everyone might have to wait much longer.

 

Who volunteers to wait longer? NOT ME!

 

Have a terrific day!

Bob

I think you have misunderstood me bob...my mean was, if the vo knows in advance they will require additional time to review the case, or they know they will request things such as dna test, then they should do these things in advance of the interview date so when is time for the interview, will no need to wait again....of course this would not make the others have a longer wait, only the ones that the vo already knows they will make wait after the interview...and i would have much prefer to do these things prior to interview and know we would have nothing more to worry about at the interview....for those who go to the interview with their fiancee or wife and then get denied and have to go home alone again, i am sure they will agree

[bob&haiqing]

Also, they have lots of information behind the scene. GUZ has already made up their mind before the interview. In cases with a positive aspect, they will look at what your SO might have to help them make a snap decision one way or other. This is the only time they will look at any information your SO has brought with them. Cases with a neutral aspect where they want more time will get a blue slip. Cases with a negative aspect receive a white slip. When you get a blue or white, it really doesn't matter what you bring to the interview. Even if you have what they ask for, they will not look at it because the blue slip is asking for more time than is available at the interview to make a decision.

I guess they way i feel about all this is, if GUZ needs more time to look into the case, then why do they bother giving an interview date when they obviously are not ready to render a decision?....If they need further documentation, as in our case and some others, DNA tests, then why do they not inform the beneficiaries of this prior to the interview?....A lot of the blue slips and white slips could be avoided if only GUZ would communicate the issues they have with each suspect case prior to giving an interview date....just seems to make sense to me.

Hey Steve,

 

Perhaps someone can give a more knowledgeable answer than mine but I think they don't do this because it would add an extra step in the process for all applications instead of some applications.

 

Prior to the interview GUZ only has the info from the P1 package and P3 package (which they have only had for a short period of time) besides anything that was collected behind the scenes as Michael made reference to. In many cases, such as ours, this was enough information along with the P4 package information taken to the interview for GUZ to issue a pink and the visa. If GUZ required all applicants to send in the P4 forms for review so they could then request more information such as the DNA test you mentioned prior to issuing an interview date, it could add several months to everyone's visa application instead of only some applications.

 

I don't know what percentage of all applicants receive a pink at interview but if that number is reasonably high and they added all those back into the process due to the addition of another step the backlog could choke the system as we now know it and everyone might have to wait much longer.

 

Who volunteers to wait longer? NOT ME!

 

Have a terrific day!

Bob

I think you have misunderstood me bob...my mean was, if the vo knows in advance they will require additional time to review the case, or they know they will request things such as dna test, then they should do these things in advance of the interview date so when is time for the interview, will no need to wait again....of course this would not make the others have a longer wait, only the ones that the vo already knows they will make wait after the interview...and i would have much prefer to do these things prior to interview and know we would have nothing more to worry about at the interview....for those who go to the interview with their fiancee or wife and then get denied and have to go home alone again, i am sure they will agree

Hey Steve,

 

Yes, I understood your meaning, I was simply speculating what would be necessary for GUZ to accomplish what you are talking about. What I came up with, based upon what information GUZ would have just prior to the interview, would be the insertion of another step in the process. How they would filter out those they wanted to put through that extra step or not would seem difficult so I just figured that if they were to do something like that it would be all inclusive for simplicities sake.

 

I am by no means an expert at any of this and not being privy to what happens behind the scenes at GUZ puts me in a position where I can only form conjectures.

 

Yes, I can imagine that going to the interview with your fianc¨¦/ee or wife/husband and not being able to bring them home with you would be very difficult. I always feel badly for those who have to experience this. Because of our situation we were not certain that we'd get a pink and thought we just might get a blue so to avoid going through the painful situation of returning alone, my plans were to stay here with her until we had the pink. As it turned out we did get pink and now for other reasons we're staying together in China until next February.

 

Have a terrific day!

Bob

[heyjimi]

Yes,heres a thought however,the stress put on the American citizen,i think can bring on a case,i am no lawyer,and i understand all the goobily guke immigrations try to justify there so called weeding out.

 

Sorry, if you feel I am swallowing all of the propaganda that GUZ and DOS dish out. Quite the contrary. I also believe that it would be best for the petitioner and beneficiary to both be part of the interview. One way to help determine a relationship is to see how the parties interact with each other. This would require longer interviews. Yeah, like that's gonna happen anytime soon. Still I can't run to court just because it might piss me off. There is a difference between swallowing propaganda and understanding the how or why things work the way they do.

 

It doesn't matter how pissed off or stressed you become, that is not something you can take to a court of law. You must show you've been hurt and that their is some remedy which can make you whole. Trying to take this to court will just be like pissing in the wind. The best course of action would be to try and get the laws changed. I would suggest starting by joining an organization like the one posted here.

 

Just because our borders are open, doesn't mean every tom, dick and harry that wants to can wander into the US. It doesn't mean they don't want to catch the bad guys. It simply means that it is now harder, because we have open borders. Some will tell you this is the price of freedom. The only reason our borders are open is because we want cheap labor without the work visa. This way it can be even cheaper than the law allows. But this is a different arguement, so I won't go any fiurther here. My point is, just because you marry a foreigner doesn't mean the US owes them a visa. You still must show it was for real reason and not just getting a visa.

 

I don't know what world you are living in, but in mine the police send quite a few drug dealers to the pen. The only problem is just where do you think the mexican mafia started, in the streets of LA? Try again, San Quentin if I remember right. So by sending the bad guys to prison, they just learn how to be meaner, bader and have the time to find ways to get around the system. It's not that the police aren't trying or busting the right ones. The really bad ones have backing of groups that can pay to get them out soon. Or if they stay for a while, they can still run things inside just as good.

 

 

Yes,ok your points taken...I still feel changes,can be made,yes,now i am pissed off,obviously,if this could go to court,it would take time,I am thinking of this for others who come along and do not have to go thru this crap,i still believe it can be done,there is always a loop hole.As how I see it,if all banded together to change these laws it could happen,whatever course of action,but i am finding,many are not willing to do that.which is very strange.just my opinion.

I live in the same world you do,and we see it differently,sorry,but i lived on the streets of LA(i was a musician there for 10 years,brother i know them streets quit well),sorry i pushed your buttons a bit,I am not trying to push anybodies buttons,

yes i just joined that organization on this site,25.00 to join,is pretty cool.I have tickled the ears of the ACLU,yes,there are lots of things that can be doneI even wrote to Oprah Hahaha..but my point,they have to be done,they don't get done,sitting around, accepting something that isnt right. It can and will be changed,as long as I am around.

 

peace out

 

jimi

[tsap seui]

Just curious if the idea of a class action suit against DOS has ever been tossed around?

 

Everyone who is denied a VISA is being called a liar. An engagement/marriage is a partnership. They are calling us both liars!

 

It is the basis of western law that you have a chance to confront your accuser and have access to all evidence being used in the accusation. We are being denied that. They seem to sit on our petitions indefinately and hope we just go away.

 

Larry, you summed up what a lot of people find out when dealing with the DOS in hot sweaty Guangzhou...and, yes, they do sit on those petitions, and yes, they do hope you will go away. And even worse, once the DOS finally sends the petition back to america, those denied petitions are at the very bottom of the USCIS service center workers priority of things to do.

 

To quickly sum up, in layman terms, what you'll find in Toppy's report....At the time of writing the law, Congress wrote themselves out of being able to help you, should you have a problem with a consulate...at the same time they also wrote your rights out of the law.

 

Hang in there buddy. It sucks, bigtime, what you and many others are faced with, but, try and take some inspiration from the two Charles' whose wives just got their visas. Your beautiful woman will get her visa, but it's gonna take some time. I wish I could tell you a shortcut or a secret code or something, but there aren't any.

 

It just takes more time....she WILL get her visa.

 

tsap seui

this is exactly why i think tsap should have some kind of position on this board,as either moderator are peace keeper, he has a potiential to calm people down and help them. yes i know i am new kid on the block . im not very smart

 

Buddy, thanks for the words, but I'm not mod material...far from it. You are smart....don't cut yourself down just because you don't have a ton of posts. You prepared good and in the end you got your woman her visa. I'm proud of ya.

 

I went through those feelings of thinking about class action lawsuits, going on Opra, etc. etc., but in the end I needed a tool that worked NOW, TODAY to help me achieve my goal. I read Toppy's article and while he explains the "yesterday" of the DOS I, in all honesty and humility, found it completely worthless as to helping anyone in dire straits with a denial or blue slip. It is only legalise gobbledy gook that has nothing to do about TODAY.

 

The sad reality boils down to this....if you are denied, you are in for a wait...a LONG DAMN WAIT

 

Is the system fair? NO

Are you going to change it? NO

Are you gonna have to wait a year and a half or two years to get your woman over here, if denied? YES

 

My hope is that someone will find the shortcut to this wait and post about it. Sadly, I failed in all my attempts. I saw that I could spend $100,000USD on an attorney and still wait a couple of years.

 

I can only offer those of you in dire straits sympathy, and encouragement that you will prevail if you march on. I sure wish I could give you more help.

 

I can tell you, try everything you can. It will make you feel better and keep you active. ANd, I'll tell ya...after all the stress, anger, sadness and hopeless feelings, that lil' rabbit and I are happier now than we have ever been. It took 10 awful months for us to reach a denial, but we quickly got over the shock, as, we saw our extreme committment to each other, and we made a new plan, Stan.

 

Good luck to those of you hurting right now...I well know, and feel your hurt.

 

Oh yeah, speculation and conjecture is what the DOS used to get you into this mess, don't you use those two awful words and work yourself into madness, THEY did that already.

 

tsap seui

Edited November 17, 2008 by tsap seui (see edit history)