Green Cards and China...

[Guest ShaQuaNew]

Before moving to China, I checked with two different immigration attorneys about US law, green cards and allowances for the US citizen that lives and works overseas. Some say it's absolutely necessary for the green card holder to return to the US every six months, but then one of the attorneys we spoke with disagreed in the case where the US citizen lives and works overseas. He said the law for periodic return was to circumvent green card holders from returning to their homeland to live and work, all the while attempting to maintain residency in the US. He said there were special exceptions for the US citizen who lives and works overseas for their families.

 

We had to make several decisions very quickly before leaving, and didn't have a good deal of time to look into the subtleties of US LPR law. I've hesitated posting this topic here on Candle, because few if any members have worked overseas after obtaining green cards for their partner(s). With that said, I'm wondering if anyone has specific information about green cards as they relate to the US citizen that lives and works overseas?

[GZBILL]

Before moving to China, I checked with two different immigration attorneys about US law, green cards and allowances for the US citizen that lives and works overseas. Some say it's absolutely necessary for the green card holder to return to the US every six months, but then one of the attorneys we spoke with disagreed in the case where the US citizen lives and works overseas. He said the law for periodic return was to circumvent green card holders from returning to their homeland to live and work, all the while attempting to maintain residency in the US. He said there were special exceptions for the US citizen who lives and works overseas for their families.

 

We had to make several decisions very quickly before leaving, and didn't have a good deal of time to look into the subtleties of US LPR law. I've hesitated posting this topic here on Candle, because few if any members have worked overseas after obtaining green cards for their partner(s). With that said, I'm wondering if anyone has specific information about green cards as they relate to the US citizen that lives and works overseas?

 

I am not entirely sure, but a friend of mine in a position similar to the one you mentioned told me about his situation once.

 

He said, as long as you were brought to China working for a US company your spouse is considered physically present in the US while together with you.

[Guest ShaQuaNew]

Before moving to China, I checked with two different immigration attorneys about US law, green cards and allowances for the US citizen that lives and works overseas. Some say it's absolutely necessary for the green card holder to return to the US every six months, but then one of the attorneys we spoke with disagreed in the case where the US citizen lives and works overseas. He said the law for periodic return was to circumvent green card holders from returning to their homeland to live and work, all the while attempting to maintain residency in the US. He said there were special exceptions for the US citizen who lives and works overseas for their families.

 

We had to make several decisions very quickly before leaving, and didn't have a good deal of time to look into the subtleties of US LPR law. I've hesitated posting this topic here on Candle, because few if any members have worked overseas after obtaining green cards for their partner(s). With that said, I'm wondering if anyone has specific information about green cards as they relate to the US citizen that lives and works overseas?

 

I am not entirely sure, but a friend of mine in a position similar to the one you mentioned told me about his situation once.

 

He said, as long as you were brought to China working for a US company your spouse is considered physically present in the US while together with you.

 

Man, I sure hope so. It's just one of those decisions I had to put off. Lan and Sarah's two year green cards will expire in March 2009.

[rogerluli]

Before moving to China, I checked with two different immigration attorneys about US law, green cards and allowances for the US citizen that lives and works overseas. Some say it's absolutely necessary for the green card holder to return to the US every six months, but then one of the attorneys we spoke with disagreed in the case where the US citizen lives and works overseas. He said the law for periodic return was to circumvent green card holders from returning to their homeland to live and work, all the while attempting to maintain residency in the US. He said there were special exceptions for the US citizen who lives and works overseas for their families.

 

We had to make several decisions very quickly before leaving, and didn't have a good deal of time to look into the subtleties of US LPR law. I've hesitated posting this topic here on Candle, because few if any members have worked overseas after obtaining green cards for their partner(s). With that said, I'm wondering if anyone has specific information about green cards as they relate to the US citizen that lives and works overseas?

 

I am not entirely sure, but a friend of mine in a position similar to the one you mentioned told me about his situation once.

 

He said, as long as you were brought to China working for a US company your spouse is considered physically present in the US while together with you.

 

Man, I sure hope so. It's just one of those decisions I had to put off. Lan and Sarah's two year green cards will expire in March 2009.

 

I sort of can't believe you blew this off Jesse...I remember specifically asking you about it in your intro thread about moving to China...Well now I understand why you didn't respond...I hope GZBill is correct...I have never heard this sort of thing applied to anyone outside of military/government workers...Good Luck...

[dnoblett]

Depends on what work you are doing overseas, if the work has to do with the US Government, or religious organizations, then yes green-card holder can accompany you, and it wont count as time out of country against eventually applying for citizenship.

 

In most cases you should apply for a re-entry permit if expected time out of country will be longer than 1 year and less than 2. Sometimes recommended to apply for one if time out of country is 6 months or longer.

 

Here are a few notes:

Maintaining Permanent Residence You may lose your permanent residence status if you commit an act that makes you removable from the United States under the law in section 237 of the Immigration and Nationality Act. If you commit such an act, you may be brought before the immigration courts to determine your right to remain a Permanent Resident.

 

You may be found to have abandoned your permanent resident status if you:

• Move to another country intending to live there permanently.
   
  
• Remain outside of the US for more than one year without obtaining a reentry permit or returning resident visa. However in determining whether your status has been abandoned any length of absence from the US may be considered, even if it is less than one year.
   
  
• Remain outside of the US for more than two years after issuance of a reentry permit without obtaining a returning resident visa. However in determining whether your status has been abandoned any length of absence from the US may be considered, even if it is less than one year.
   
  
• Fail to file income tax returns while living outside of the US for any period.
   
  
• Declare yourself a “nonimmigrant” on your tax returns.
  

http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/men...00045f3d6a1RCRD

 

Form N-470:

In certain limited situations, a person may be able to preserve residency, previously accumulated for naturalization purposes, even though he or she may be residing outside the United States for longer than one year. Thus the time spent abroad may be counted toward the residency requirement.

 

These cases involve persons employed in specific jobs in the United States government and private sector as well as religious organizations.

 

To obtain approval to preserve residency, such permanent residents must file a Form N-470 application before departing from the United States.

 

The regulations are different for religious workers proceeding abroad to perform religious duties. Religious workers may apply before or after departure, or after return to the United States. They are not required to have lived in the United States for a specific period of time prior to filing Form N-470.

 

Filing a Form N-470 does not relieve a permanent resident from obtaining a reentry permit, in advance of trips outside the United States for a year or more, nor does it relieve the applicant from the naturalization law's physical presence requirement.

 

An applicant qualifying for the residency preservation may extend the benefit to his or her spouse and dependent children who are all members of the same household and have lived with the principal applicant while abroad.

 

Another exception to the residency requirement is made for alien members of the U.S. armed forces. A permanent resident employee of the U.S. government abroad who has filed a Form N-470 is considered physically present in the United States during such employment abroad. He or she does not need to obtain a reentry permit.

http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/N-470instr.pdf Edited October 27, 2008 by dnoblett (see edit history)

[Randy W]

Couple of questions which may or may not be relevant -

 

Were you hired in the US and moved to China, or hired specifically for a position in China?

 

Do you maintain a domicile in the US?

 

Do you have a mailing address in the US?

 

Did you file a change of address with the USCIS?

To your China address? For yourself? For Lan? For Sarah?

Edited October 27, 2008 by Randy W (see edit history)

[Sebastian]

I thought one rule of thumb, can't recall the source at all -

Jump back to the states every 6 months for 3 to 5 weeks.

Establish rental property stateside as well.

[dnoblett]

I thought one rule of thumb, can't recall the source at all -

Jump back to the states every 6 months for 3 to 5 weeks.

Establish rental property stateside as well.

Yes, US Domicile must be maintained.

 

However, if USCIS suspects the green-card is NOT being used for "RESIDENCY" in the USA, they can revoke it even for stays out of the country less than 6 months.

 

Again a green-card is for PERMANENT residency in the USA or it's territories, it is NOT treated like a PERMANENT "Visa".

 

If they see a pattern of 6 months, then short visits to the USA they can simply revoke the green-card because the majority of the time is spent outside of the USA, not as a resident of the USA.

 

This is very dangerous.

[rogerluli]

Exactly why my wife will become a USC before we retire in China/Malaysia...I am so NOT doing even one annual trip back to the states let alone two... B) Forget all the green card nonsense...

[dnoblett]

Exactly why my wife will become a USC before we retire in China/Malaysia...I am so NOT doing even one annual trip back to the states let alone two... B) Forget all the green card nonsense...

Yes US Citizenship has it privileges.

 

I brought that up the other day on VJ

 

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...=158516&hl=

[izus]

man so what are you going to do Jesse?

[Guest ShaQuaNew]

Couple of questions which may or may not be relevant -

 

Were you hired in the US and moved to China, or hired specifically for a position in China?

 

Do you maintain a domicile in the US?

 

Do you have a mailing address in the US?

 

Did you file a change of address with the USCIS?

To your China address? For yourself? For Lan? For Sarah?

 

As to Roger's point: No, we didn't blow it off. On the advice of the attorney we are maintaining a US address and bank account. We do plan to return to the US at least once per year or more.

 

My company's main office is in Japan, but has offices all over the world, including the US. One of our main offices is in California. I took this job because it was an excellent offer, and wasn't seeing anything but contract jobs in the US for several years. Just the nature of my career. This was an opportunity for a good paying and stable job, which I believe is more important than being without a job at all in the US.

 

If for some reason US citizenship is affected, that isn't important to us. Like I said, I've hesitated posting this here, because most everyone will view this from a perspective of their foreign partners leaving the US for personal or work reasons. For us, this is not the case. We chose to leave with a US listed company for a job overseas. My family is simply accompanying me.

Edited October 28, 2008 by ShaQuaNew (see edit history)

[rogerluli]

 

As to Roger's point: No, we didn't blow it off.

 

From my perspective I know that her green card/eventual US citizenship is very important to my wife...If I had put it in jeopardy by not knowing EXACTLY what I was doing I would be in deep doo doo...

[GZBILL]

Depends on what work you are doing overseas, if the work has to do with the US Government, or religious organizations, then yes green-card holder can accompany you, and it wont count as time out of country against eventually applying for citizenship.

 

It also applies to private sector employment.

 

I confirmed with my friend who was recently in this situation. His Chinese wife had permanent residence and he able to remain in China for 4 continuous years without losing it. Those 4 years also counted as time against the 5-something years needed for citizenship.

 

There is some regulation that applies to those abroad in furtherance of goals beneficial to the US and private sector employment is valid.

[Guest ShaQuaNew]

Depends on what work you are doing overseas, if the work has to do with the US Government, or religious organizations, then yes green-card holder can accompany you, and it wont count as time out of country against eventually applying for citizenship.

 

It also applies to private sector employment.

 

I confirmed with my friend who was recently in this situation. His Chinese wife had permanent residence and he able to remain in China for 4 continuous years without losing it. Those 4 years also counted as time against the 5-something years needed for citizenship.

 

There is some regulation that applies to those abroad in furtherance of goals beneficial to the US and private sector employment is valid.

 

Thanks Bill. This is more in line with what we heard from our attorney before leaving. I don't want to appear that I'm taking this lightly, as maintaining LPR status for my wife and daughter is extremely important to us.