P O L Y G A M Y

[david_dawei]

Dennis,

 

This is a matter than runs into deep debate between many Christians. To simplify, from a Christian perspective, there is Old Testament Law, which is referred to in Theology as legalism. Many of these laws are based in the Ten Commandments, but of course there were many other laws that the people of the Old Testament were to obey.

 

Then comes the New Testament, a new sacrament. Christians are expected to obey the laws of their land, and also submit to their leaders. All laws in the US forbid a man or woman from having more than one spouse. Christians are admonished in the book of Hebrews, Chapter 13, verse 17, to be obedient to their leaders.

 

Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they keep watch over your souls as those who will give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with grief, for this would be unprofitable for you.

 

I love the story you mentioned about Laban, so much so that my daughter's middle name is "Rachel."

 

hmmm...now we're getting somewhere...I think

 

So, what you are saying is that, although there may not be scripture that directly gives a commandment against mutiple wives, because it is the law one must simply obey?

 

If that's the best there is, I'll give that a shot at an explanation to the class next week.

 

Anyone else? Anyone... anyone...

 

 

Well Dennis, yes, that's exactly what I'm telling you. There is absolutely nowhere in the New Testament of the Bible that specifically states that a man should only have one wife. It was a long time ago that I studied Theology in college, and we discussed this issue at length. I remember then that it always brought a lot of input and discussion. There were lots of opinions on the topic, and people will take a variety of scriptures and try to manufacture their own view. But still, you will not find that specific writing anywhere in scripture.

I agree... you may end up finding more support for polygamy than against it, in the bible...

 

Again, to me, it's a matter of agricultural/societal evolution; once we were hunter-gathering types; as a matter of perceived survival, we formed groups... and soon communities. A common and equal treatment is eventually expected... and enforced... legislated.. and then penally applied to offenders...

[Guest ShaQuaNew]

oh.... leave Dennis alone.. he's trying to figure out a way to convince his chinese wife of a polygamous life

 

Well Dennis, is that true?

 

[Randy W]

 

Excuse me Randy, but where did you ever get the notion that the Bible is NOT the basis of law for Christians? It is absolutely considered to be the sole source of law for all believers. Sure, there are some exceptions, but these groups are considered to be outsiders by the mainstream church. The mainstream church by the way is comprised of the Catholic and Protestants, with the Protestants being broken down into the Baptists (real bible believers), the evangelicals (very heavy into spreading the word), and so on.

 

The Bible is the book by which Christians live. It is, and always was the absolute authority in that Christians believe it was literally written by the hand of God.

 

I did say except as a moral authority - separation of church and state would be the basis for my claim, although I'm sure anyone can come up with several counter-examples.

 

"there were reformers in the eastern states who were shocked by its affront to Protestant and Victorian mores, generally overlooking the fact that biblical prophets and some earlier Protestants had practiced polygamy."

 

Yes - and the Mormon's believed the hand of god told them to have multiple wives.

Edited October 24, 2008 by Randy W (see edit history)

[Guest Mike and Lily]

 

Excuse me Randy, but where did you ever get the notion that the Bible is NOT the basis of law for Christians? It is absolutely considered to be the sole source of law for all believers. Sure, there are some exceptions, but these groups are considered to be outsiders by the mainstream church. The mainstream church by the way is comprised of the Catholic and Protestants, with the Protestants being broken down into the Baptists (real bible believers), the evangelicals (very heavy into spreading the word), and so on.

 

The Bible is the book by which Christians live. It is, and always was the absolute authority in that Christians believe it was literally written by the hand of God.

 

I did say except as a moral authority - separation of church and state would be the basis for my claim, although I'm sure anyone can come up with several counter-examples.

 

Yes - and the Mormon's believed the hand of god told them to have multiple wives.

 

Sure why not. Marry many women or men, marry your cat, marry your car. All that will happen is that marriage will become irrelevant except for tax purposes.

[Dennis143]

oh.... leave Dennis alone.. he's trying to figure out a way to convince his chinese wife of a polygamous life

 

Well Dennis, is that true?

 

No!! It's against the law - God and Man's!!

[Guest ShaQuaNew]

 

Excuse me Randy, but where did you ever get the notion that the Bible is NOT the basis of law for Christians? It is absolutely considered to be the sole source of law for all believers. Sure, there are some exceptions, but these groups are considered to be outsiders by the mainstream church. The mainstream church by the way is comprised of the Catholic and Protestants, with the Protestants being broken down into the Baptists (real bible believers), the evangelicals (very heavy into spreading the word), and so on.

 

The Bible is the book by which Christians live. It is, and always was the absolute authority in that Christians believe it was literally written by the hand of God.

 

I did say except as a moral authority - separation of church and state would be the basis for my claim, although I'm sure anyone can come up with several counter-examples.

 

"there were reformers in the eastern states who were shocked by its affront to Protestant and Victorian mores, generally overlooking the fact that biblical prophets and some earlier Protestants had practiced polygamy."

 

Yes - and the Mormon's believed the hand of god told them to have multiple wives.

 

Yes, that is indeed what you called it: a moral authority. And it's to that reference to which I speak. The Christians do NOT consider the bible to be a "moral authority." Rather, they consider it to be the absolute authority in all they do, and all they believe, and in all they cherish. There is NO higher or greater word on planet earth. For Christians, you CANNOT provide two laws by which to live. If they are requested to break God's law, by anyone, and choose to do it, then they choose to sin.

Edited October 24, 2008 by ShaQuaNew (see edit history)

[Randy W]

It's completely unclear how this switched to a discussion of Christian 'law' - I haven't expressed an opinion there, and don't intend to.

[Guest ShaQuaNew]

It's completely unclear how this switched to a discussion of Christian 'law' - I haven't expressed an opinion there, and don't intend to.

 

So when you contribute to a thread, it's a fact rather than your opinion?

Edited October 24, 2008 by ShaQuaNew (see edit history)

[Randy W]

It's completely unclear how this switched to a discussion of Christian 'law' - I haven't expressed an opinion there, and don't intend to.

 

So when you contribute to a thread, it's a fact rather than your opinion?

 

 

You lost me, guy!! You can read several of my opinions in this thread.

 

I have not said a thing (either opinion or fact) about "laws" that Christians go by, only American laws.

Edited October 24, 2008 by Randy W (see edit history)

[Guest ShaQuaNew]

It's completely unclear how this switched to a discussion of Christian 'law' - I haven't expressed an opinion there, and don't intend to.

 

So when you contribute to a thread, it's a fact rather than your opinion?

 

 

You lost me, guy!! You can read several of my opinions in this thread.

 

I have not said a thing (either opinion or fact) about "laws" that Christians go by, only American laws.

 

Okay, well then let's steer this back to Dennis' original question, which requested information about Christian theology:

 

So, I come here to my Candle brethren and sistren to help me. Here are my questions:

 

1. Where does the Bible state that polygamy is a sin?

2. What are the valid reasons and basis for laws against polygamy today?

[warpedbored]

I don't really give a rats ass if someone wants to have multiple husbands or wives as long as they are consenting adults. What I can't figure out is why anyone would want more than one spouse. One is difficult enough to get along with.

[Randy W]

 

 

Okay, well then let's steer this back to Dennis' original question, which requested information about Christian theology:

 

So, I come here to my Candle brethren and sistren to help me. Here are my questions:

 

1. Where does the Bible state that polygamy is a sin?

2. What are the valid reasons and basis for laws against polygamy today?

 

 

My opinion there is that the Bible won't affect the law. Others have pointed out that the Bible can be viewed as both favorable and un-favorable. Only a Supreme Court challenge, which is unlikely to happen

[Guest Rob & Jin]

I don't really give a rats ass if someone wants to have multiple husbands or wives as long as they are consenting adults. What I can't figure out is why anyone would want more than one spouse. One is difficult enough to get along with.

 

 

 

 

 

and the cost

[Guest ShaQuaNew]

 

 

Okay, well then let's steer this back to Dennis' original question, which requested information about Christian theology:

 

So, I come here to my Candle brethren and sistren to help me. Here are my questions:

 

1. Where does the Bible state that polygamy is a sin?

2. What are the valid reasons and basis for laws against polygamy today?

 

 

My opinion there is that the Bible won't affect the law. Others have pointed out that the Bible can be viewed as both favorable and un-favorable. Only a Supreme Court challenge, which is unlikely to happen

 

That might be, but who knows the reasons behind the making of laws. Those that make them are supposed to keep religion out of it, but being human, many allow their personal beliefs to enter the picture without realizing it.

 

Carl has a good point though, in that it would seem that one wife is quite enough. I'm still wondering about Dennis' reasons for opening the thread, but it did bring about some interesting discussion.

 

[Dennis143]

 

 

Okay, well then let's steer this back to Dennis' original question, which requested information about Christian theology:

 

So, I come here to my Candle brethren and sistren to help me. Here are my questions:

 

1. Where does the Bible state that polygamy is a sin?

2. What are the valid reasons and basis for laws against polygamy today?

 

 

My opinion there is that the Bible won't affect the law. Others have pointed out that the Bible can be viewed as both favorable and un-favorable. Only a Supreme Court challenge, which is unlikely to happen

 

That might be, but who knows the reasons behind the making of laws. Those that make them are supposed to keep religion out of it, but being human, many allow their personal beliefs to enter the picture without realizing it.

 

Carl has a good point though, in that it would seem that one wife is quite enough. I'm still wondering about Dennis' reasons for opening the thread, but it did bring about some interesting discussion.

 

I gave my reason for opening this thread.

 

Anyway, I've always agreed with Carl on this. And, my joke to the class about have two women angry at me wouldnt be that far from the truth, I fear.

 

We could discuss Chinese men and their er nais, concubines and what is accepted whether openly talked about or not and Chinese women's acceptance or resignment towards it; therefore, creating a conscious or sub-conscious desire to also join in these trists. But, that would be way too controversial, so it's best not be mentioned.