IllinoisDave Posted October 6, 2008 Report Share Posted October 6, 2008 there are many different ways that ONE/SOMEONE can become either better or worse.. You have us seriously confused David... How 'bout now Rog? Amazing how "Davie's" can read each others mind And hope you caught the "Davie" payback! I did. Well done sir. Link to comment
rogerluli Posted October 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2008 I very much regret the way this thread has gone and it's my fault... I had been thinking about a thread on the question of ethical behavior in China. After all the bad news of the recent past which showed a very ugly side of the "get rich" at all costs philosophy that seems to me to be too prevalent in China...I wanted to see what our members thought... Then I saw the article on Christianity in China and it seemed like a natural tie-in and place to start. Unfortunately all I did was put up a big target that no one could resist taking pot shots at... So would it now be possible to just forget the religion part completely and re-focus on the question of simple ethical behavior??? Link to comment
chilton747 Posted October 6, 2008 Report Share Posted October 6, 2008 I very much regret the way this thread has gone and it's my fault... I had been thinking about a thread on the question of ethical behavior in China. After all the bad news of the recent past which showed a very ugly side of the "get rich" at all costs philosophy that seems to me to be too prevalent in China...I wanted to see what our members thought... Then I saw the article on Christianity in China and it seemed like a natural tie-in and place to start. Unfortunately all I did was put up a big target that no one could resist taking pot shots at... So would it now be possible to just forget the religion part completely and re-focus on the question of simple ethical behavior??? Hey Roger, I totally understand your thinking on why you started this thread. Being a Christian myself, I am used to the pot shots. The Bible said this would happen and so it does.China is what China is just as all the other nations in the world are. It's really sad to see that people all over the world will not think twice about harming others solely for their material gain. We can only hope for things to improve through better ethical behavior but it is what it is and it is not simple. I can do my part by praying about it which I do everyday. B) Link to comment
Guest ShaQuaNew Posted October 6, 2008 Report Share Posted October 6, 2008 I very much regret the way this thread has gone and it's my fault... I had been thinking about a thread on the question of ethical behavior in China. After all the bad news of the recent past which showed a very ugly side of the "get rich" at all costs philosophy that seems to me to be too prevalent in China...I wanted to see what our members thought... Then I saw the article on Christianity in China and it seemed like a natural tie-in and place to start. Unfortunately all I did was put up a big target that no one could resist taking pot shots at... So would it now be possible to just forget the religion part completely and re-focus on the question of simple ethical behavior??? I understand your concern Roger. The Christian philosophy states "the love of money is the root of all evil." I'm not sure the love of it is the root of all evil, but it certainly is a big part of it. I see a kinder and gentler people here than I do in the West. People are not out to cheat you all in the name for a little more profit. Capitalism isn't evil. Link to comment
usaRichard Posted October 6, 2008 Report Share Posted October 6, 2008 I understand your concern Roger. The Christian philosophy states "the love of money is the root of all evil." I'm not sure the love of it is the root of all evil, but it certainly is a big part of it. I see a kinder and gentler people here than I do in the West. People are not out to cheat you all in the name for a little more profit. Capitalism isn't evil. Being sold goods as a foreigner (in China) for more than a Chinese, does that qualify? Or do I miss understand your thought? Richard Link to comment
Guest ShaQuaNew Posted October 6, 2008 Report Share Posted October 6, 2008 (edited) I understand your concern Roger. The Christian philosophy states "the love of money is the root of all evil." I'm not sure the love of it is the root of all evil, but it certainly is a big part of it. I see a kinder and gentler people here than I do in the West. People are not out to cheat you all in the name for a little more profit. Capitalism isn't evil. Being sold goods as a foreigner (in China) for more than a Chinese, does that qualify? Or do I miss understand your thought? Richard I'm not sure whether you understand my point or not, because I'm not sure what point you're trying to make? Perhaps your point is that some China merchants will attempt to sell products at a higher price to foreigners than they would to someone who appears to be Chinese? If that's what you mean, then I must agree that this is a widespread practice in China. Most cultures outside the US do the same thing; whether you're in Mexico, South America, or many European countries. It's all about negotiation. Quite frankly, I love the practice, and while I'm not really good at negotiating with vendors, I am getting better at it. Tai gui le!! I don't think it a bad thing for someone in business to attempt to make the best profit possible. Isn't it written somewhere in the Christian Bible: "Bad, bad says the buyer as he goes his way rejoicing." Edited October 6, 2008 by ShaQuaNew (see edit history) Link to comment
rogerluli Posted October 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 (edited) I understand your concern Roger. The Christian philosophy states "the love of money is the root of all evil." I'm not sure the love of it is the root of all evil, but it certainly is a big part of it. I see a kinder and gentler people here than I do in the West. People are not out to cheat you all in the name for a little more profit. Capitalism isn't evil. Being sold goods as a foreigner (in China) for more than a Chinese, does that qualify? Or do I miss understand your thought? Richard Richard you have to understand that friend Jesse actually enjoys getting "cheated" in China... He admitted right here that buying things in China you never know if what you are getting will actually function the way it is supposed to... But that's okay now... All is good...Being cheated is just life in China...Get over it... And that's not even bringing up what may be in the food... Edited October 7, 2008 by rogerluli (see edit history) Link to comment
Guest ShaQuaNew Posted October 7, 2008 Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 Richard you have to understand that friend Jesse actually enjoys getting "cheated" in China... He admitted right here that buying things in China you never know if what you are getting will actually function the way it is supposed to... But that's okay now... All is good...Being cheated is just life in China...Get over it... And that's not even bringing up what may be in the food... Roger, you seem to have been born with a gun on your hip, as that's where you like to shoot from. Nothing true with your comments at all. Who the hell "likes" to be cheated? You're a complete mystery Roger. You seem to have a chip on your shoulder about the growth in China. To you, unless it's socialism, or redistribution of wealth, then, it must be evil. Again, my counter-point to your original point is that capitalism is NOT evil. Making money is not evil. Growth equals jobs, and that's not a bad thing. It's not always good either, which is why people should use common sense. In your case, you believe it to be the job for government to save you from making a bad deal. Link to comment
usaRichard Posted October 7, 2008 Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 (edited) "Bad, bad says the buyer as he goes his way rejoicing." you'll have to do better with your paraphrase before I can answer that one >>Perhaps your point is that some China merchants will attempt to sell products at a higher price to foreigners than they would to someone who appears to be Chinese?<< yes that is my point and I lived it last May in Beijing. But after reading your post I would say that the meaning here is about what you wrote>>"People are not out to cheat you all in the name for a little more profit."<< Of course they are, whether it is China, USA, or take your pick of any country, the human heart is the same no matter what race or country you are born in...without any moral guidence or conscience all sorts of...greed and lust breeds.It does not take a genius to know this, just observe human nature in yourself and others. I am not suggesting by saying "observe yourself " that you are such a person, but if you are able to see yourself and know the human condition then you know what I mean Richard Edited October 7, 2008 by usaRichard (see edit history) Link to comment
Guest ShaQuaNew Posted October 7, 2008 Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 "Bad, bad says the buyer as he goes his way rejoicing." yes that is my point and I lived it last May in Beijing. But after reading your post I would say that the meaning here is about what you wrote>>"People are not out to cheat you all in the name for a little more profit."<< Of course they are, whether it is China, USA, or take your pick of any country, the human heart is the same no matter what race or country you are born in...without any moral guidence or conscience all sorts of...greed and lust breeds.It does not take a genius to know this, just observe human nature in yourself and others. I am not suggesting by saying "observe yourself " that you are such a person, but if you are able to see yourself and know the human condition then you know what I mean Richard Richard, you seem to be taking the job of being a merchant far too seriously. Perhaps you would like to see every merchant in the world have fixed prices? Is it cheating if one person negotiates with a vendor and pays 50-dollars for a widget; and then, the next guy walks in and negotiates a price of 40-dollars? Did the merchant cheat the first customer? Did the second customer cheat the merchant? It's negotiating. My point in adding the quote: "bad, bad says the buyer as he goes his way rejoicing" was to illustrate that negotiating is nothing new under the sun. It's been going on for thousands of years. Only in very recent history, has their been a push by some socialist regimes to fix prices. Link to comment
chilton747 Posted October 7, 2008 Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 Tai gui le!! I don't think it a bad thing for someone in business to attempt to make the best profit possible. Isn't it written somewhere in the Christian Bible: "Bad, bad says the buyer as he goes his way rejoicing." Too expensive!! I don't recall seeing this in the Bible. But I am not a Bible scholar. Link to comment
Guest ShaQuaNew Posted October 7, 2008 Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 (edited) Tai gui le!! I don't think it a bad thing for someone in business to attempt to make the best profit possible. Isn't it written somewhere in the Christian Bible: "Bad, bad says the buyer as he goes his way rejoicing." Too expensive!! I don't recall seeing this in the Bible. But I am not a Bible scholar. You're right! That's what they wait to hear so they can work with you. The verse can be found in: Proverbs 20:14 Edited October 7, 2008 by ShaQuaNew (see edit history) Link to comment
rogerluli Posted October 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 Richard you have to understand that friend Jesse actually enjoys getting "cheated" in China... He admitted right here that buying things in China you never know if what you are getting will actually function the way it is supposed to... But that's okay now... All is good...Being cheated is just life in China...Get over it... And that's not even bringing up what may be in the food... Roger, you seem to have been born with a gun on your hip, as that's where you like to shoot from. Nothing true with your comments at all. Who the hell "likes" to be cheated? You're a complete mystery Roger. You seem to have a chip on your shoulder about the growth in China. To you, unless it's socialism, or redistribution of wealth, then, it must be evil. Again, my counter-point to your original point is that capitalism is NOT evil. Making money is not evil. Growth equals jobs, and that's not a bad thing. It's not always good either, which is why people should use common sense. In your case, you believe it to be the job for government to save you from making a bad deal. Where exactly do you pull these ideas out of Jesse??? And please try to remember... this forum is The Middle Kingdom... NOT The Magic Kingdom... Link to comment
Guest ShaQuaNew Posted October 7, 2008 Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 Richard you have to understand that friend Jesse actually enjoys getting "cheated" in China... He admitted right here that buying things in China you never know if what you are getting will actually function the way it is supposed to... But that's okay now... All is good...Being cheated is just life in China...Get over it... And that's not even bringing up what may be in the food... Roger, you seem to have been born with a gun on your hip, as that's where you like to shoot from. Nothing true with your comments at all. Who the hell "likes" to be cheated? You're a complete mystery Roger. You seem to have a chip on your shoulder about the growth in China. To you, unless it's socialism, or redistribution of wealth, then, it must be evil. Again, my counter-point to your original point is that capitalism is NOT evil. Making money is not evil. Growth equals jobs, and that's not a bad thing. It's not always good either, which is why people should use common sense. In your case, you believe it to be the job for government to save you from making a bad deal. Where exactly do you pull these ideas out of Jesse??? And please try to remember... this forum is The Middle Kingdom... NOT The Magic Kingdom... To me and my family, and to many others, it IS the Magic Kingdom, and deserving of it's name, China, Patungwo (sp), the center of the universe. It's a mystery to me why you are even moderator of this forum. You don't seem to care much for China, its government, its food. You go on and on about how you want clean air, a socialistic economy, and to change all you can. What the hell man. Why would you want to come here? Link to comment
rogerluli Posted October 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 Richard you have to understand that friend Jesse actually enjoys getting "cheated" in China... He admitted right here that buying things in China you never know if what you are getting will actually function the way it is supposed to... But that's okay now... All is good...Being cheated is just life in China...Get over it... And that's not even bringing up what may be in the food... Roger, you seem to have been born with a gun on your hip, as that's where you like to shoot from. Nothing true with your comments at all. Who the hell "likes" to be cheated? You're a complete mystery Roger. You seem to have a chip on your shoulder about the growth in China. To you, unless it's socialism, or redistribution of wealth, then, it must be evil. Again, my counter-point to your original point is that capitalism is NOT evil. Making money is not evil. Growth equals jobs, and that's not a bad thing. It's not always good either, which is why people should use common sense. In your case, you believe it to be the job for government to save you from making a bad deal. Where exactly do you pull these ideas out of Jesse??? And please try to remember... this forum is The Middle Kingdom... NOT The Magic Kingdom... To me and my family, and to many others, it IS the Magic Kingdom, and deserving of it's name, China, Patungwo (sp), the center of the universe. It's a mystery to me why you are even moderator of this forum. You don't seem to care much for China, its government, its food. You go on and on about how you want clean air, a socialistic economy, and to change all you can. What the hell man. Why would you want to come here? I suggest that you PM Don and inform him that YOU should be the forum mod here and not me... That should take care of all of your issues... Link to comment
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