Differences of opinion on Candle

[warpedbored]

As for my 2 cents worth I find AOF offensive as well. Also I can't seem to hear a ring of truth to his postings. I believe he is just here baiting us and gigglling at our petty squabble. The only value I can see to his postings are he makes us take another look at ourselves. We don't always like what we see. I am very dissmayed at the personal attacks by and on R2D2. R2 I have always enjoyed your postings and find myself nodding in agreement with the lions share of them. I tend to agree with you on the AOF issue also

[Guest jade_yan]

lets leave r2d2 out of this. r2d2 has even less credibility than AOF, for god's sake!!!! Fighter pilot, cia agent, country singer, ......come on, who can take that seriously? lets leave the needy, insecure ego out of it and stick to information. CAN WE??????

[Guest jade_yan]

r2 d2...envisioned, not invisioned

 

denigrated...not denigraded...

 

it's difficult to take your posts seriously between the puffery, the chest beating and the sloppy grammar. stick to information and we will too. That's all we ask. No one comes here for self aggrandizement. We only come here to share information.

After all, you don't want to be asked to trade addresses again. You OBVIOUSLY wanted NO part of that guy!

[Dave G.]

r2 d2...envisioned, not invisioned

 

denigrated...not denigraded...

 

it's difficult to take your posts seriously between the puffery, the chest beating and the sloppy grammar.  stick to information and we will too.  That's all we ask.  No one comes here for self aggrandizement.  We only come here to share information.

After all, you don't want to be asked to trade addresses again.  You OBVIOUSLY wanted NO part of that guy!

Testify, baby.....testify.

[Kaige]

I have seen some of OF's posts, I have found it easier to skip over them and do not read, everyone else here old member or new, has always been respectful of others and have helped with information, I know I am happy with all the posts, I do have one question though is 001 a gossip page? as some information here that is posted seems a little funny, like time frames for people getting paperwork completed, my wife reads this sight always

[skrunks]

I have read, with great interest, the comments herein. Along with everyone else, I shall add my two cents...

 

First, if my comments ever anger anyone such is not my intent. Second, my knowledge is no more or less than anyone else here. Almost everyone here has participated in this forum far longer than I and is a better judge of what is needed...my comments have not been seasoned with months of time on candle. But I'm like most people who like to think we are right more than half the time -- yet realize that it is not so -- casinos prove we are correct far less than half the time! So, I may be way off base, nonetheless I am hopeful that some of my comments may be constructive. Also, I am slightly dyslexic so sometimes i mix up the order of letters.

 

First, as to group processes. I have been privileged to lead several discussion groups -- not on the net, but recurring face to face round tables. I have found -- no pretense here on my part to say this is the right or wrong thing, just something i have noticed -- that without countering opinions and thoughts, the efficacy of the group diminishes significantly. Without people of countering opinions and thoughts, group discussions descend into what is called "the halo effect" where the tendency is to think "if you do not talk, think, act and do things like me" you are wrong. One person says "XX", everyone agrees, and the group moves on, leaving the issue ill examined. Groups need nay sayers, need people who think different, people who disagree, sometimes even in ways people in the group do not like. Why? Because the outcome for the group is usually better, as we are forced out of our groove, forced to think different, and it stirs our creative juices as it were. Look at how much thought we have given to the postings of OF -- how much would we have done if that same posting had been "short time lines here, thanks, bye". We need people who stir the collective thought. There are studies that support this hypothesis, in lay terms often referred to as synergism -- there are many group models based on the concept.

 

One of those is that every group goes through developmental stages called forming, storming, norming and performing. For "storming" not to get out of control, and for the group to get on to "performing", norms must be established within which we express our diversity. The choice at that point is to conform...or receive sanctions from the group of one sort or another. This norming comes from within the group -- if it is imposed by edict, it is not a group norm, and will continue to be violated. It is the moderators role to get the group back on track, but not necessarily establish norms (not pointing fingers, we have wonderful moderators). Folks have expressed this same idea, in different words, to R2D2. Not that R2D2 is wrong, were I in his shoes, I would probably feel exactly the same way he does. Noble purposes.

 

The art of diplomacy is not getting others..who think and act like we think they should...to do things, it is rather the opposite.

 

Differing opinions, even smugly stated, should be welcomed. Who are we to say that because someone thinks, acts and says things differently they are wrong? Suppose OF is right in his timelines? We should find out how he did it.

 

To wrap up, my opinion is that the group should establish norms as to the limits of the diversity of comments, and then get on to your real purpose, which is to help everyone with their visa issues. If the norms aren't clear, and no ones comments are violative of TOS but the group isn't doing well, then efforts should focus on changing the TOS. Hoewver, once you start limiting what people can say and how they say it, the diversity of the group will always be diminished....my opinion.

 

The most effective tool that the group can wield, is just to ignore crass comments. If you just HAVE to reply and it doesn't help the group? Do so privately.

 

thankyou for letting me put in my two cents

[robhon]

AND, when the air gets turbulent, you HAVE to back it off to Vno. Right, Don?

 

 

(Vno is normal operating speed. Turbulent air puts greater stresses on the aircraft at higher speeds. More than one pilot has made the mistake of maintaining a high speed - in the yellow arc - to 'get through' the turbulence and had their wings ripped off as a result.)

[Guest hakkamike]

Heading up a round table discussion and taking on the responsibly of a mediator or arbitrator are two different animals and the roles of each one are a lot different and even more different that taking on the responsibility of heading up a discussion, never mind I was going to explain the difference of the three but as someone once told me, its time to stop the spoon feeding, you guys can look them up yourselves.

Michael Perez

[skrunks]

TOS = terms of service...rules to abide by....sorry for the confusion

[Kaige]

Don and Rob I see neither of you have exceded VNE just exceded VNO this is why we are all here and can fly another day because we stayed in the guide lines taught to us, any of you been upside down yet, I have only flown wings verticle to the ground in a Tomahawk, is this close to VNE?

[Guest hakkamike]

What about VD? its getting Close

[Guest hakkamike]

Nice story Don, I read that you were in OPS or maybe just hanging around them?? , that's what I do at Lockheed Martin on the F16, OPS Checks Specialist, Pre Power,Power , OBOGS(oxygen) Fuel Quantity, Ect, My REAL Specialty is drinking coffee hahahahahha