If wife leaves the country........

[fortunecookie]

Hello,

 

If my wife leaves the US to visit family in China - and she is holding a CONDITIONAL green card - when she tries to re-enter the United States, AND IF there are reports which I have sent to both the FBI and ICE that are in her file - what are the chances she will be denied entry into the country??????? Please tell me ANYTHING you know about this situation!!!

 

Also, how long can a person holding a US green card stay out of the country legally???

 

Thanks All,

FC

[dnoblett]

She may be stopped at the POE

You may be found to have abandoned your permanent resident status if you:

• Move to another country intending to live there permanently.
  
• Remain outside of the US for more than one year without obtaining a reentry permit or returning resident visa. However in determining whether your status has been abandoned any length of absence from the US may be considered, even if it is less than one year.
  
• Remain outside of the US for more than two years after issuance of a reentry permit without obtaining a returning resident visa. However in determining whether your status has been abandoned any length of absence from the US may be considered, even if it is less than one year.
  
• Fail to file income tax returns while living outside of the US for any period.
  
• Declare yourself a “nonimmigrant” on your tax returns.
  

http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/men...00045f3d6a1RCRD Edited January 15, 2007 by dnoblett (see edit history)

[Guest Duke]

Hello,

 

If my wife leaves the US to visit family in China - and she is holding a CONDITIONAL green card - when she tries to re-enter the United States, AND IF there are reports which I have sent to both the FBI and ICE that are in her file - what are the chances she will be denied entry into the country??????? Please tell me ANYTHING you know about this situation!!!

 

Also, how long can a person holding a US green card stay out of the country legally???

 

Thanks All,

FC

 

I doubt a direct answer about "chances" is obtainable. I suppose it would be possible they would put an order in her file to detain her upon re-entry, if they intended to prosecute her for a crime.

[phantom1949]

Some hypathetical questions:

 

1. If wife leaves the USA to Visit China, is there any requirement to pay her anything while she is outsife of the USA???

 

2. If she is served with Divorce papers while back in China, what are her rights here in the USA??

 

3. If while SO is out of the country the proof is shown that she is a green card chase, who would you contact and why would they let her back into the country??? We have rights here but she is not a US citizen....

 

4. If while she is in China, her return plane tickets are cancelled..... But I guess if she is going to China, probably one of her boy friends are going also and they would pay her return trip.

 

 

A General Question: OK, the government makes us jump through hoops to bring someone here and to make sure the SO is coming for the right reasons. But once the SO is here, and turns out to be a green card chaser, they do not seem to care?????

 

Can anyone explain this logic other then it's government???

[Guest Duke]

Some hypathetical questions:

 

1. If wife leaves the USA to Visit China, is there any requirement to pay her anything while she is outsife of the USA???

 

2. If she is served with Divorce papers while back in China, what are her rights here in the USA??

 

3. If while SO is out of the country the proof is shown that she is a green card chase, who would you contact and why would they let her back into the country??? We have rights here but she is not a US citizen....

 

4. If while she is in China, her return plane tickets are cancelled..... But I guess if she is going to China, probably one of her boy friends are going also and they would pay her return trip.

 

 

A General Question: OK, the government makes us jump through hoops to bring someone here and to make sure the SO is coming for the right reasons. But once the SO is here, and turns out to be a green card chaser, they do not seem to care?????

 

Can anyone explain this logic other then it's government???

 

In general, I think it is the concept of double jeapardy. Once granted a green card, they have the rights of a conditional permanent resident until they don't anymore. It doesn't matter simply that the original adjudication was faulty. Their status remains until its time to adjudicate the removal of conditions or they are convicted of a crime.

 

The Catch 22 could be that pesky I-864 for as long as they remain in the USA.

 

As for your question 1 above, I'm not aware of any enforceable requirement while they are out of the country unless they can obtain some sort of judgement before or during their absense. Abandoning a spouse can certainly have some legal consequences after the fact though.

[Randy W]

The I864 itself doesn't award anything to the beneficiary. She must go to court and get a judgment which will contain the terms of the payments.

[phantom1949]

The I864 itself doesn't award anything to the beneficiary. She must go to court and get a judgment which will contain the terms of the payments.

 

You guys know so much more then me.

 

Duke: I am not attorney but Double Jeopardy only apply's when a court/jury find you not guilty. Unless I am wrong, and I could be, the INS application/green card process is not a court.

 

Randy, now that court case could be interesting. The SO going and asking for support as she has been wronged, and the husband showing up with video of his wife meeting other men multiple times (I speak to FC off line), as well as e-mails to boyfriends planning these sexual encounters, missing each other, etc, and all occuring right after the green card was conditionally issued. The guy working three jobs to give his wife a decent life and the wife running around with other men.

 

This could also most be a "B" movie. Regquired watching for men wanting to find a wife overseas, along with a second movie that was a love story.

[Urkidding]

The I864 itself doesn't award anything to the beneficiary. She must go to court and get a judgment which will contain the terms of the payments.

A very good point, Randy.

 

Likely that a divorce court will award at least as much as the I-864. If not, an alien would need to take the case to a federal court and win a judgement. There are at least a couple of cases where this has happened, but it is quite rare. More likely that the alien would obtain government assistance and the agency would seek reimbursement. I haven't heard of this happening but it is certainly a contingent liability.

 

This is exactly what will happen because I have seen it happen before! The only question is how long the government entity ¨CWelfare Agency takes to turn the case around. Most government agency have a stack of paperwork to go through before a letter can be sent out and then depending on how long you take to reply to it.

 

This could drag out for a good 6-8 months before the individual starts reimbursing the monies that the government has given the dependant. Very similar to being laid off from your job, you apply for un-employment, company that fired you rejects your demands because their unemployment payments will increase, etc etc.

[Guest Duke]

The I864 itself doesn't award anything to the beneficiary. She must go to court and get a judgment which will contain the terms of the payments.

A very good point, Randy.

 

Likely that a divorce court will award at least as much as the I-864. If not, an alien would need to take the case to a federal court and win a judgement. There are at least a couple of cases where this has happened, but it is quite rare. More likely that the alien would obtain government assistance and the agency would seek reimbursement. I haven't heard of this happening but it is certainly a contingent liability.

 

It's all pretty uncharted territory, which is why I said it COULD BE a Catch 22. I've had two divorces in the State where I now live. In the circumstances of a fully employed spouse leaving a short term marriage, she would be unlikely to be awarded any spousal support by the divorce court but she would be awarded half the assets accumulated during the short divorce. For the I-864 to come into play, some attorney would need to play it as a card in some court. I have no idea whether or how a State divorce court would consider it.

 

An exception to the " fully employed spouse" circumstance would be one where the spouse materially changed their employability FOR the marriage. For example a retail sales clerk in China now working as a retail sales clerk here probably wouldn't qualify but a CPA in China working as hotel maid here probably would be awarded at least temporary spousal support. Some call that alimony. This State and numerous others with "no fault" divorce laws, seek to put financial things back to where they would have been had the marriage not occurred, at least when no children are involved.

[phantom1949]

The I864 itself doesn't award anything to the beneficiary. She must go to court and get a judgment which will contain the terms of the payments.

A very good point, Randy.

 

Likely that a divorce court will award at least as much as the I-864. If not, an alien would need to take the case to a federal court and win a judgement. There are at least a couple of cases where this has happened, but it is quite rare. More likely that the alien would obtain government assistance and the agency would seek reimbursement. I haven't heard of this happening but it is certainly a contingent liability.

 

As an FYI, I lived in New York and my wife took the children, left and moved to Florida. While I was sending her support, she still applied for welfare and medicaid. My New York divorce Attorney told me to ignore anything from Florida HRS. He said as long as I did not go to Florida the Flroida Government could not touch me in New York or any other state. I never took that route as it was my children in the middle. I moved to Florida and showed HRS I was paying her monthly. Eventually HRS went after my ex for fradulent filings.

 

So I guess Scott just needs to move to another state. But I would think more realistically, the wife would go to marry the wealthy man and not bother with Scott and the 864. Since Scott is working three jobs to afford an apartment, and the older wealthy guy gave her thoudands of dollars to buy a home in China. Why go after the poor man when you can marry the rich man...... I read that in a gold digger training guide somewhere.

[Guest Duke]

The I864 itself doesn't award anything to the beneficiary. She must go to court and get a judgment which will contain the terms of the payments.

 

 

Duke: I am not attorney but Double Jeopardy only apply's when a court/jury find you not guilty. Unless I am wrong, and I could be, the INS application/green card process is not a court.

 

 

That's right. I referred only to the concept. I wasn't referring to a court or a law but simply an underlying concept. Courts are involved in "deportation" or revoking the rights of permanent residents. LPR's have legal rights until they don't.

[fortunecookie]

My question on this topic is this:

 

What if she was to flee when confronted with this evidence. She then files for federal assistance. But she is illegal if she does not re-new the green card in a little over a year. Where does this put me? What if ICE tries to prosecute her? How does this change things?

 

I intend to divorce her and allow her to marry the other man - at least I am hoping this is how it plays out.

 

FC

[phantom1949]

The I864 itself doesn't award anything to the beneficiary. She must go to court and get a judgment which will contain the terms of the payments.

A very good point, Randy.

 

Likely that a divorce court will award at least as much as the I-864. If not, an alien would need to take the case to a federal court and win a judgement. There are at least a couple of cases where this has happened, but it is quite rare. More likely that the alien would obtain government assistance and the agency would seek reimbursement. I haven't heard of this happening but it is certainly a contingent liability.

 

This is exactly what will happen because I have seen it happen before! The only question is how long the government entity ¨CWelfare Agency takes to turn the case around. Most government agency have a stack of paperwork to go through before a letter can be sent out and then depending on how long you take to reply to it.

 

This could drag out for a good 6-8 months before the individual starts reimbursing the monies that the government has given the dependant. Very similar to being laid off from your job, you apply for un-employment, company that fired you rejects your demands because their unemployment payments will increase, etc etc.

 

The government turnaround may vary by State. For Florida (I have some experience here) when the applicnnt files for welfare/medicaid HRS (Child welfare in Fla) automatically sent me a letter saying my wife is in Florida and is claiming I am not paying her and she is poor. I usually had 30 days to provide proof that I was paying. The problem is I needed to wait in the early 90's for my bank statement to come to me so I could photocopy both sides of the check and send them in. By the time I get the check to HRS it was over 30 days and they had put my wife on support. But I was told that if I could show I was paying, they it was her who was committing welfare fraud. This game of her applying and my sending in the documentation and then HRS throwing her off welfar for her to wait 30 days and start this all over again when on for 18 months. In the end, She had to pay them back as I had paid in full every month.

[Urkidding]

My question on this topic is this:

 

What if she was to flee when confronted with this evidence. She then files for federal assistance. But she is illegal if she does not re-new the green card in a little over a year. Where does this put me? What if ICE tries to prosecute her? How does this change things?

 

I intend to divorce her and allow her to marry the other man - at least I am hoping this is how it plays out.

 

FC

 

If she were to marry the ¡°other guy¡± chances are she wouldn¡¯t be able to file for anything because she is now ¡°the other guy¡¯s¡± responsibility. I think that if you had children involved then the circumstance would be different.

 

I¡¯m not an attorney so I would recommend that you talk to an immigration attorney on this. Most of them would be able to answer a simply question like yours over the phone without a charge. Of course they will want you to come in to make you a client afterwards too!

[phantom1949]

My question on this topic is this:

 

What if she was to flee when confronted with this evidence. She then files for federal assistance. But she is illegal if she does not re-new the green card in a little over a year. Where does this put me? What if ICE tries to prosecute her? How does this change things?

 

I intend to divorce her and allow her to marry the other man - at least I am hoping this is how it plays out.

 

FC

 

If she were to marry the ¡°other guy¡± chances are she wouldn¡¯t be able to file for anything because she is now ¡°the other guy¡¯s¡± responsibility. I think that if you had children involved then the circumstance would be different.

 

I¡¯m not an attorney so I would recommend that you talk to an immigration attorney on this. Most of them would be able to answer a simply question like yours over the phone without a charge. Of course they will want you to come in to make you a client afterwards too!

 

Randy:

 

Does the 864 become void when she remarries?

 

If FC's wife has no visible means of supoprt, lives with the wealthy man and does not marry him, then what happens with the 864?