Daoist sexual practices.

[izus]

The extended and historical answer is found in:

- the Four Noble Truths (suffering, cause, overcoming, pursuit of the eight fold path)

- the Eight-fold Path (focus on the mind, action, and understanding)

- the five precepts (the moral code; not to harm others, don't steal, control sexual desires, speak truthfully, and be mindful)

 

 

what kind of suffering do you have to endure?

 

where does karma come into play

[izus]

One doesn't have to endure suffering. Life is suffering and by following the righteous ways the suffering can be ended. So the choice is totally within each person. There is no diety who gives and takes all.

 

Karma is a score card. Do good things and you get positive karma points. Bad things get negative karma points. Whatever your net score, you will receive in kind. In Christianity, this is like the "do unto others".

 

 

yes, i find all this very interesting, ChunYans mom has practiced this but never taught it to her daughters other then watch how she lives.

 

so how does Buddah come inot all this if there is no diety?

[david_dawei]

The extended and historical answer is found in:

- the Four Noble Truths (suffering, cause, overcoming, pursuit of the eight fold path)

- the Eight-fold Path (focus on the mind, action, and understanding)

- the five precepts (the moral code; not to harm others, don't steal, control sexual desires, speak truthfully, and be mindful)

 

 

what kind of suffering do you have to endure?

 

where does karma come into play

 

In a nutshell, the buddhist felt the suffering was a basic part of life; Stop all attachments to this life and you stop suffering. but there's a prescribe path to follow to end it (not suicide).

 

The zen buddhist felt that the suffering was basically just your thinking (about life)... Stop the thinking and you stop suffering. ( The suffering is in your head... so much more practical).

 

Zen buddhism having started in china really translated into the chinese way of thinking which (IMO) is to not think about things.. just do.

 

-------

 

Buddhism wants to generally deal with what is known (as opposed to speculative or mystical philosophies) as a starting point for man.. (although it's origin and founder came out of India where much speculative thinking occurred).

 

As the story goes... although Gautama was sheltered in a palace to keep his exposure of the world limited, he was eventually exposed to an old man, a sick man, a dead man and a beggar... these led him to leave the palace (his wife and son), and see an answer to the fundamental question;

- Why is there pain and suffering in the humanlife ? From birth to death and all inbetween...

 

This coupled with the prevailing hindu belief in reincarnation (returning in life after death in a lower or higher life form) lead to another question:

- How to break this cycle of rebirth? (since rebirth implies coming back to an existence which is filled with suffering).

 

The answers to these two questions lead to the previously mentioned doctrines to be followed... to see release from the cycle and ultimately release from life's suffering.

 

Here are three important concepts in buddhism:

1) Karma - the next life is directed by the actions of your previous life (but you can break the cycle)

2) Samsara - The perpetual cycle itself... It's not the self which comes back but the basic intrinsic part that make up a person (feelings, etc)

3) Nirvana - The ultimate goal.. The point at which the cycle and suffering end. (Third noble truth). Not a place (like heaven) but a state of being (although they taught the self/ego is an illusion).

 

The question often arises as to the difference between enlightenment and Nirvana and if they are the same... I don't really think so. Nirvana is the end.. Enlightenment is a realization of one's correct [buddhist] position in the world; as one in harmony (no independent existence--only interdepent existence) with all the world yet no attachment exists to things or to the self/ego.

 

This harmony with the world starts to get into Daoist theory (which is also of hindu origin)...

 

Zen Buddhism is of Hindu origin as well, but it's founder is said to have come into China with his message and this branch was quickly molded with chinese thought... eventually it spread to Japan where it has more influence today. But Zen buddhism attempted to riddle, scare or shock their monks into the empty realization (self is an illusion; only part of the whole) and is really a more comical reading at times.

 

The famous story of "what is the sound of one hand clapping" was traditionally answered by putting up ONE hand... this ONE hand also signify an understanding of the ONEness of all things. But just putting up one hand was not sufficient, the master had to feel you really understood the ONE hand.

 

Another master like to put up ONE finger as to get the attention of his monks.. to shut up their questions (which would be focusing on the wrong issues)... A little boy was fond of mimicing the master and had his finger cut off. the boy was hysterical.. and to grab the boys attention, the master put up ONE finger.. at which point the boy (as he was wont to do) put up his ONE finger, but it wasn't there any more.. Suddenly the boy understood...

 

(There are a few stories that border on blood and usually are felt to have been storytelling rather than real events.. but still gets the point across).

[TLB]

Also the buddhist teaching of suffering is not very consistent with chinese thought, IMO... to focus on suffering is to think upon that and then perform intentional action... whereas historically, their philosophy teaches the opposite: Spontaneity and intuition... where action of this sort is equated with natural action (thoughtful action is considered more unnatural). The maxim I once read was: "Do no unnatural action".

 

 

what are the main aspects of the buddhist life, what is his basic belief...

 

as to a christian my basic belief is Jesus Christ died on the cross and shed is blood for payment of the worlds sin debt. EVERYONE.

very basic

 

i dont understand the way, say...

"how do i be a good buddhist"

 

Buddhism has quite an interesting history with many branches forming in the end and has a system of belief which makes it's teachings easier to understand on some level than other asian philosophies. There does exist Buddhism as a philosophy and religion (same as for Dao.. ie: Daoist Priests). But I'll stick to the philosophy since this is what is most popular.

 

If one has to summarize the basic tenant, I would say something like this (although this could be a modern feel):

- Not to harm others and live in peace¡­ the ultimate goal of life carries the idea of a lasting happiness of all things¡­

- A 'blowing out' of all forms of desires which leads to a calm, (almost indifferent) tranquility.

 

The extended and historical answer is found in:

- the Four Noble Truths (suffering, cause, overcoming, pursuit of the eight fold path)

- the Eight-fold Path (focus on the mind, action, and understanding)

- the five precepts (the moral code; not to harm others, don't steal, control sexual desires, speak truthfully, and be mindful)

 

The elimination of desires I think gets a bad rap and is often misunderstood... but I'm not sure I'm the one to really explain it too much further as I am not a practicing buddhist and probably those closer to the 'practiced way' could...

 

It has some interesting comparisons to christianity:

- A founder

- prophesy

- salavation (from suffering of life, not sin against a god)

- goodwill towards man

- life after death (reincarnation instead of heaven)

 

There's much that is written online about the comparisons, but I'll say that much of it is in defense of christiantiy.. which causes the topic to spiral into "we're better than you".. I think that basically violates the buddhist way of thinking and so you won't find such one-up-manship in buddhism. By nature (being more moral/ethical than religious), it's tolerance of practicing it's way allows for practice of other religions simultaneously...

 

As always, very good reading David. One comment vis-a-vis the whole "detachment" and "elimination of desires" thing (and this is from the perspective of one not practicing but very interested in Buddhism in the USA, where I think Zen and the Tibetan forms have had the most influence):

 

the goal as I understand it is not the elimination of desires, nor a near indifference; rather, the goal is a form of mind that allows for awareness of desire (which really just means awareness of emotions) for what they are: temporary states. This form of mind, if attained (in the US, meditation is practiced, much like Zen in Japan -- I understand this is not done so much in China) results in the person's being able, as it were, to "see" the emotions as if from some distance (still feeling them). At this point, one can "go with them" or not -- the point is that one is not a slave to them. This state, if attained (I am very bad at it but have caught glimpses) is very freeing.

 

There is, in the States, a kind of split between the "learn all of this through meditation" group and the "meditation can't teach you that, you have to learn it out there in the real world, driving down the street dealing with crazy drivers, etc" group. This corresponds interestingly to previous comments differentiating the Zen's meditative practice with the Chinese (Chan sect) tendency for more practical in-the-world experience.

[david_dawei]

As always, very good reading David. One comment vis-a-vis the whole "detachment" and "elimination of desires" thing (and this is from the perspective of one not practicing but very interested in Buddhism in the USA, where I think Zen and the Tibetan forms have had the most influence):

 

the goal as I understand it is not the elimination of desires, nor a near indifference; rather, the goal is a form of mind that allows for awareness of desire (which really just means awareness of emotions) for what they are: temporary states. This form of mind, if attained (in the US, meditation is practiced, much like Zen in Japan -- I understand this is not done so much in China) results in the person's being able, as it were, to "see" the emotions as if from some distance (still feeling them). At this point, one can "go with them" or not -- the point is that one is not a slave to them. This state, if attained (I am very bad at it but have caught glimpses) is very freeing.

 

There is, in the States, a kind of split between the "learn all of this through meditation" group and the "meditation can't teach you that, you have to learn it out there in the real world, driving down the street dealing with crazy drivers, etc" group. This corresponds interestingly to previous comments differentiating the Zen's meditative practice with the Chinese (Chan sect) tendency for more practical in-the-world experience.

nice comments !

 

As I stated in the other thread, my personal interest is really only in "early Zen", or Chinese Buddhism. I know that many will follow a buddhist way or zen way, and I may not represent their particularly structured form.

 

I would say that your opening point, if I understand correctly, is answered by the famous early Zen story:

- Before Zen, mountains are mountains; river are rivers;

- At the moment of Zen, mountains are not mountains and rivers are not rivers;

- After Zen, mountains are mountains and rivers are rivers.

 

Have the mountains or rivers changed through all these phases? No... only our mind has changed. It can be said to be "freed", as you say.

 

As to meditation... the early Zen story goes:

- [Newbie monk sitting in meditation, master comes up and asks:] "What are you doing?

- Newbie says, "I am meditating so I may be enlightened.

- [Master turns and picks up a stone and starts to rub it]

- Newbie says: "Master, what are you doing?

- Master says: "I am polishing this stone so that it can be a mirror

- Newbie says: "Master, that is impossible. The stone is a stone, you cannot make it a mirror.

- Master says: "Likewise, it is not meditation which makes you enlightened". At this, the Newbie was Enlightened !

 

I much prefer the early Zen and particularly the Daoism of Lao Zi idea of the essence of life. When tired sleep, when hungry, sleep. Let naturalism be a walking meditation.

 

If one wants to meditate, then it should be for other reasons than enlightenment... Early Zen said, "if you see the buddha, kill the buddha". That should be an indication to 'kill the meditation' , but it was increasingly clear that the types of students which sought the monastery needed some formal way to break their incorrect mental concept of life and reality. So more and more formal methods were developed to teach the masses.

 

I use Qigong ideas of energetics instead of Buddhist ideas of statics.

[Joanne]

I'm not trying to get into anyone's private life here but I have been wondering if Chinese ladies, and men, are generally familiar with Daoist lovemaking practices and concepts.

 

I know Tai Chi and Qi Gong are common there but when mentioning these things in my letters to my Chinese lady friend and when I had also mentioned this in my profile when I had one on an internet site, without any sexual references, I never received a single response or comment. I would think at least I would've received some comment as it would seem fairly uncommon for a westerner to have an interest in Chinese culture. I have to say I was somewhat disappointed as I half-hoped to find a woman who would be knowledgeable and interested in these matters. I've read hundreds of profiles of Chinese women and it is extremely rare to find any mention of meditation, yoga, or Daoist ideas.

 

I suppose the average Chinese person engages in sex the same way the average American does; with the man orgasming freely, with the Daoist methods being limited to a small percentage of the population.

 

I know the Falun Gong group has probably made a lot of people careful what they say over there so perhaps that's part of the reason.

 

Or is it just an example of the "old ways of China" being more alive in the West than in the East?

 

I think you right...

Those things are not in our daily sexsual practice...

To be honest... as a city girl... this is the first time I've heard someone put them with sex.

 

Same here.