Tourist Visa

[ShanghaiFred]

A few weeks back I asked for advice regarding getting a tourist visa for my wife to go back home with me to visit for Christmas. And, despite the overwhelming consensus that it was a one-in-a million shot. I thought that I would roll the dice and see the outcome...well Was a thoroughly depressing experience. Firstly, we got to the consulate around 7:30 AM for a scheduled 8:30 AM interview. Finally made our way up to the line and into the consulate. After passing through the security clearance, I was abruptly separated from my wife on the grounds that I could not be in the visa section. Even though I still had on my person a few extra things my wife needed, including an extra 100 RMB fee that she would later have to pay, and her bag which American citizens can take in, but Chinese can’t.

 

I told the security officer that this was my wife. He said he didn’t care, and that I couldn’t be there, pulled me away from this area and told me to wait in the ACS unit. I sat there trying to calm myself down. Then questioned as to how long it would take for her to get through the line. I was told 3-5 hours. At this point I decided that I had better get to work since waiting for 5 hours in a separate room didn’t make much sense, I had the security guard go get my wife to tell her (bc I could not go in that area and cellphones are not allowed).

 

After waiting at work for 5 hours my wife finally called me and told me that the visa was denied within seconds. The VO simply asked whether she had a immigration visa in progress, and to see my passport, which my wife didn’t have since I had taken it in the confusion of the hassle with the security guard.

 

I just think that a few things are ridiculous about the whole scenario:

 

1. The V.O. didn’t look at a single shred of supporting evidence showing both my and her strong ties to China. I had even prepared a table of contents in order to make it easier for them to navigate the stack.

2. I think the reason they are able to get away with one-glance denials is in part because they won’t let Americans in the area. After all, what American would let you get away with a refusal without considering any evidence?

3. The faster they approve/deny, the more people you can schedule in a day, which means the more money that you can make. I’m not sure if anyone has considered this before. But a consulate the size of Shanghai, must go through at least 500 NIV applications per day, at $100 USD a piece. If you do the math that works out to a revenue of about $250,000 a week for them. Not a bad revenue generator, especially considering that you can staff most of the consulate with Chinese nationals at much lower wages.

4. The most atrocious part of the whole process, I think is the lack of a human element. The in the FAQ section of the consulate website it says that many applicants for visitor visa are also in immigration process, and that this is not alone enough to disqualify you. Well, that’s what they tell you before you get there. But when it comes down to it they aren’t willing to hear “your” story, you are just a piece of paper that can be denied with no recourse.

 

Ahhhh…….I am going insane!!!

[jim_julian]

It's a shame ... I try to appreciate the pressures that State and USCIS are under on visas ... but the pain for well meaning people is incredible.

 

I don't know how we change the system. It does no good to get angry with VOs.

 

If they really looked at your case you had some very good points.

 

Sigh ...

[cosmiclobster]

Sounds like business as usual with our govt hard at work! (It's hard work and they're doing a heck of a job!)

They have you jump through hoops, they burden you with page after page of forms and evidence and a $100 fee, make it impossible for you to be there (they couldn't possibly let an American see its own govt in the process of doing its job) or even present the evidence, then they spend 5 seconds to summarily dismiss everything you've done without even glancing at everything you presented with no recourse or appeal and send you away so they can "process" the next case.

Yep, sound like our govt status quo to me!!!!

[warpedbored]

While I agree that they are too heavy handed with tourist visas for Chinese nationals I have to admit that if I were a VO and a tourist visa applicant had a K visa in the works I would probably deny them. How many of you would choose not to circumvent the process if you could get your wife or fiancee here on a tourist visa first?

[ÕÔÙ»ºÍ³Î°ÛÀû]

Qian has been denied a B-2 twice, once in Beijing and once in London. Both times were before I filed the I-129F. In both cases the interview was just as described, hours of waiting and then a denial in seconds. No desire at all to look at any of the evidence establishing ties.

 

Chinese passport + B-2 application = denied.

 

Yet those third-world countries Singapore, the UK, and Canada didn't have a problem issuing her a visa.

[mercator]

I don't see how that is a problem. How many VJ stories have you read where the SO was on a work or a tourism visa when they met, and they spend time together on that visa or on a renewed one...

Edited December 3, 2005 by mercator (see edit history)

[frank1538]

I know all about immigrant intent, and while there may be some truth in it, I think it's arrogant and presumptuous for our government to deny tourist visas for fear that the person won't leave, particularly in this case where the USC is residing in China. The US is nice, but it's not everybody's cup of tea. I don't want to get political here, but it reminds me of the movie "Minority Report". Since they can't prevent a possible violation of the law after the person arrives, they prevent the person from entering the country before he/she has a chance.

[NY-Viking]

Fred,

 

We got lucky when my wife (then girlfriend) was issued a few tourist visas to visit the US with me while I was working in Shanghai. One time they wanted to see a lot of information on me (work contract, work visa, etc. - none of which I had, but anyway ...)

 

Go to the American Citizen Services hour and make a complaint to the visa officer there. If you show all your information there, they might be willing to review it again and she could still get the visa.

 

When you talk to the officer explain that she wasn't able to show anything and present everything to him then. DO NOT have an attitude when you talk to him (as hard as this is) because they will not look favorably on that.

 

Chances are, unless the BOTH of you have strong ties to China, they will reject the application given your immigration petition, but what do you have to lose by going to talk to them?

 

Good luck!

Edited December 4, 2005 by NY-Viking (see edit history)

[ameriken]

Fred,

 

We got lucky when my wife (then girlfriend) was issued a few tourist visas to visit the US with me while I was working in Shanghai.  One time they wanted to see a lot of information on me (work contract, work visa, etc. - none of which I had, but anyway ...)

 

Go to the American Citizen Services hour and make a complaint to the visa officer there.  If you show all your information there, they might be willing to review it again and she could still get the visa.

 

When you talk to the officer explain that she wasn't able to show anything and present everything to him then.  DO NOT have an attitude when you talk to him (as hard as this is) because they will not look favorably on that.

 

Chances are, unless the BOTH of you have strong ties to China, they will reject the application given your immigration petition, but what do you have to lose by going to talk to them?

 

Good luck!

173416[/snapback]

I know when we all meet our SO's, we think getting the tourist visa will be easy.......because the USA welcomes people from all countries (so we believed). Then we learn how difficult it is for Chinese to get this.

It makes sense.....let her spend a few weeks here, see if she likes it, see if we love each other. Spend time together.

But the Govt does not see it that way...they believe once the Chinese citizen enters the US, they will never leave. This may be very true for many Chinese.

I understand what they mean by 'strong compelling ties' to go back to China. The govt has certain profiles that a person must fit into, such as over 40, married or male, a lot of money, business etc. If a person is outside that profile, then no B2.

Even if someone applies for the fiance visa, they will not allow the tourist visa. They are afraid the two will marry before they have a chance to 'check her/him out'.

I have to admit.......if they gave my SO a B2, we probably would have done just that !

Edited December 5, 2005 by ameriken (see edit history)

[ShanghaiFred]

This is a quote from the Shanghai consulate's FAQ section. I've bolded the part that I find misleading. This is in fact pretty much the only section of the website that refers to a NIV applicant having an American relative. That said I think it is misleading in the sense that it doesn't go on to say, something like "But in these cases proving strong ties could be quite difficult. Strong ties might include XYZ..." If in their minds the decisions on these visas are black and white, then I think the terms of their explanation should be spelled out without such a gray area for misinterpretation.

 

"Shouldn't I conceal the fact that I have close relatives living in the United States, that I have an application to immigrate on file, and that I have previously been denied a visa? What are the consequences if an applicant conceals or misrepresents information or submits fraudulent documents to the Consulate?

 

The risks of fraud are serious. Applicants who provide incorrect information, conceal relevant facts, or misrepresent their cases may become permanently ineligible to enter the United States. All approved applications are checked against computer records to see if certain information on the application was truthfully presented. It is common in China for an applicant to have relatives in the United States or a petition to immigrate on file. These factors by themselves will not necessarily prevent approval of your application. Misrepresentation of these facts, however, risks causing your application to not only refused but for your to become permanently ineligible from ever entering the United States. "

[ameriken]

This is a quote from the Shanghai consulate's FAQ section. I've bolded the part that I find misleading. This is in fact pretty much the only section of the website that refers to a NIV applicant having an American relative. That said I think it is misleading in the sense that it doesn't go on to say, something like "But in these cases proving strong ties could be quite difficult. Strong ties might include XYZ..." If in their minds the decisions on these visas are black and white, then I think the terms of their explanation should be spelled out without such a gray area for misinterpretation.

 

"Shouldn't I conceal the fact that I have close relatives living in the United States, that I have an application to immigrate on file, and that I have previously been denied a visa? What are the consequences if an applicant conceals or misrepresents information or submits fraudulent documents to the Consulate?

 

The risks of fraud are serious. Applicants who provide incorrect information, conceal relevant facts, or misrepresent their cases may become permanently ineligible to enter the United States. All approved applications are checked against computer records to see if certain information on the application was truthfully presented. It is common in China for an applicant to have relatives in the United States or a petition to immigrate on file. These factors by themselves will not necessarily prevent approval of your application. Misrepresentation of these facts, however, risks causing your application to not only refused but for your to become permanently ineligible from ever entering the United States. "

173604[/snapback]

My guess, and this is only a guess, is the govt is supposedly interested in protecting the interests of the US against fraud, not the interests of the people from another country applying for a visa. They obviously want to know this information as quoted. It is the govt's 'we dont care' attitude. It may also be a generic statement placed in all consulate webpages, and for many other countries where it may be easier to get a visa, the requirements and compelling elements are not needed to be stated because they are not necessary.

Just a guess.

[goneflying2000]

I tried the B2 for my wife last Christmas and after she was denied I had some correspondence with the Shanghai consulate.

I was told in no uncertain terms that if an immigrant visa is already in process there is not a chance in H--- of them issuing a B2.

Lets face it once our loved one is here the temptation to file an AOS and keep them here would be very tempting.

[ShanghaiFred]

I tried the B2 for my wife last Christmas and after she was denied I had some correspondence with the Shanghai consulate.

I was told in no uncertain terms that if an immigrant visa is already in process there is not a chance in H--- of them issuing a B2.

Lets face it once our loved one is here the temptation to file an AOS and keep them here would be very tempting.

173625[/snapback]

Goneflying,

 

Just wondering, did your deny on the b-2 tourist have any impact on your immigrant visa down the road? any delays? questions? hassles in GUZ?

 

thanks!

[Guest ShaQuaNew]

The reward for following immigration law and not following immigration law is like having to make a choice between having a root canal or colonoscopy.

[goneflying2000]

Still waiting for the P4 so I can not answer that question at this point.

However it is my understanding that only a previous immigrant visa denial has any relevance on a current petition as there are literaly thousands of B2 denials.