they should use more than 1 consulate

[hlin]

Seriously.  I think it's pretty funny that Spanish, Italian and Portuguese get to be seperate languages, not to mention Norwegian, Swedish and Danish, but "Shanghainese is Mandarin with special drawal and local accent, and a few colloquialisms."  It's a different language.  It's similar, and if you spend time there you'll pick it up, but it's not like Brooklynese vs. Bostonian vs. California valley.

So is that based on your experience that you can pick up Shanghainese by spending some time there? I have spent about 5 weeks there total, and have listened to it so many times, but I can't make out what most people are saying. I guess I'm not a language person

 

I can pick up only a few words that sound simliar to Mandarin, and it's still hard. Maybe they're talking too fast for me.

I've read how feelings of 'prestige' or 'superiority' get the better of Shanghai... and the fast speech may be a subconscious (or conscious!) attempt to display that.. if you don't understand, it's 'your' problem..

At least they all know Mandarin.

 

And if I want to do the same to them, I'll start speaking Cantonese, hahaha...

[NY-Viking]

So is that based on your experience that you can pick up Shanghainese by spending some time there? I have spent about 5 weeks there total, and have listened to it so many times, but I can't make out what most people are saying. I guess I'm not a language person

 

I can pick up only a few words that sound simliar to Mandarin, and it's still hard. Maybe they're talking too fast for me.

You can't expect much from 5 weeks. I spent 4 years in Shanghai. I can generally pick up the gist of what my SO is speaking to her family when they talk in Shanghainese, but I can't say I really understand it. I bought a book called "Learn Shanghainese" or something like that which is geared for Mandarin speakers (Chinese people really - just Chinese characters in the book - no Romanized versions of Shanghainese words, etc.). I didn't spend a lot of time with it though. Oh well.

 

There are other dialects that are closer to Mandarin and some that are far more different. I spent about two years in Nanjing as well, and while most of the people there will speak Mandarin, the local Nanjing dialect isn't too difficult to pick up.

[beijingjenny]

Not just anyone can be a VO. There is something to finding qualified, esp American, people to do that. But it is lame.

 

I guess Jack's language, Fuzhouhua is technically a dialect and I can recognize many similarities, but some of these really are like another language. I would never compare to regional dialects in the US.

[david_dawei]

Not just anyone can be a VO. There is something to finding qualified, esp American, people to do that. But it is lame.

and I'm sure we could come up with a list of choice words to describe a VO...

 

Frankly, after most interviews, many SOs state how friendly the VOs appear to be... maybe we create a frankenstein, but then after meeting them the monster image goes away...

[NY-Viking]

Not just anyone can be a VO. There is something to finding qualified, esp American, people to do that. But it is lame.

Complete agreement with you there Jenny, but I was under the impression that any translators they use are locals. I could be wrong. I know that the foreign service officers working in the US Consulate in Shanghai only learn Mandarin. Well, maybe some of them pick up some other dialects on their own as well, but the official government teaching is only in Mandarin.

[lele]

I would argue that they are different SPOKEN LANGUAGES. However, since the Qin Dynasty, more than 2000 years ago, there has been a common WRITTEN LANGUAGE.

 

This is definitely the case. When I speak in Qingdaohua most of the students at my university, even the graduates from Tsinghua who can speak cantonese can not understand me, except for a single person who comes from a different part of Shandong, and even he can only barely understand me. Yet, my darling can speak this, mandarin, and even another written the same way without a problem.

 

Just my opinion.

 

However, the argument for new centers is an old one. I must have posted that argument a long time ago, and likely others far before me as well.

 

I hope that the idea can burn brighter, but I do not feel too optimistic, until we unselect the current administration...

[beijingjenny]

Yeah, you're right Viking. They can have translators so not all need to know Mandarin or Cantonese. Definitely a lame excuse.

[Guest fhtb]

I hope that the idea can burn brighter,  but I do not feel too optimistic, until we unselect the current administration...

liberals! You probably blame the phases of the moon on Bush, too.

 

What an incredibly simplistic mode of thought... if anything in your life ever goes wrong - blame Bush!

[NY-Viking]

I would argue that they are different SPOKEN LANGUAGES.  However, since the Qin Dynasty, more than 2000 years ago, there has been a common WRITTEN LANGUAGE.

True. However, Cantonese does have some characters that are used for Cantonese words. You can find them in some Hong Kong newspapers, and they are used in text messaging, etc. For example the words for "he", "she" and "it" in Cantonese have a unique characters for "keuih" (all three pronounced the same, but written differently) that are written differently than their Mandarin equivalents "ta". Official documents use the standard Mandarin script though. I believe Cantonese is unique in this regard amongst Chinese "dialects".

 

And while written Mandarin is the official language of China, the languages of minority groups such as Tibetans, Uighurs and Mongolians are completely distinct from Chinese, officially recognized and taught in schools. Important documents are translated into major minority tongues and four of them - Tibetan, Mongolian, Uighur and Zhuang - appear on Chinese bank notes. (Take a look at some of your Renminbi.)

 

I found a pretty good discussion on the Chinese "language(s)" at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_language . It summarizes most of what I had learned in the past, and had some new information for me as well.