Chinese language lessons

[david_dawei]

Who wants to discuss chinese words? Not really characters and radials, but if you must, I'm sure it would be interesting..

 

There a million nuiances in the language, and with no phonetic bridge from seeing a character to saying it , study takes forever... Often when Zixuan says something to me, I'll say, "Pin yin", so she will write the Romanized version so I can 'see what she is saying'.

 

So, show a word, explain its use, and any background that is helpful/useful.

 

I start with a simple one that I thought was interesting. (My chinese is not good, so forgive me and I'll forgive you!)

 

---

 

To show possession, you use the word 'de'... (I'll stay simple with this word since it is way more complicated than I understand, but here's one use I know).

 

wo = i, my ; wode = mine

 

ni = you ; nide = your

 

But if you are talking about family members, you would drop the 'de'.

 

zhe shi wo mama. (This is my mother).

 

What I understand about dropping the 'de' is that this is not spoken since the family is not something for you to possess. The family is personal and not formal, so no need to speak formal about them(?)

[yuehan123]

ok, good idea. I want to learn chesuo (like ch in chirp). chesuo zai nar? where is the bathroom?

[James]

You can get a decent amount of mileage out of "pi," in the fourth tone.

 

pigu (tones 4, 0) -- butt.

 

piyan (4, 3) -- anus.

 

gou pi (3, 4) -- literally dog fart, better translated as "bullshit."

 

fang pi (4, 4) -- to, um, commit an act of flatulence.

 

ni de pi (3, 0, 4) -- your butt! As when my wife calls me and I say "Hello" and she answers "Hello ni de pi!" Also sometimes seems to occur as "ni ge pi."

[david_dawei]

ok, good idea.  I want to learn chesuo (like ch in chirp).  chesuo zai nar?  where is the bathroom?

I think its 'cesuo' - Bathroom, Restroom. Sometimes you'll see a sign as W.C. (I don't know why).

 

I think the sound is like this:

 

ce - the "su" in "sucker"

 

suo - the "swa" in swallow

 

---

 

zai = in

 

nar = na er (two characters are joined) ; er joins with a few others in this way.

 

nar or na li can be used interchange (?) . Anybody can tell us when to use or not to use??

[david_dawei]

You can get a decent amount of mileage out of "pi," in the fourth tone.

 

pigu (tones 4, 0) -- butt.

 

piyan (4, 3) -- anus.

 

gou pi (3, 4) -- literally dog fart, better translated as "bullshit."

 

fang pi (4, 4) -- to, um, commit an act of flatulence.

 

ni de pi (3, 0, 4) -- your butt! As when my wife calls me and I say "Hello" and she answers "Hello ni de pi!"  Also sometimes seems to occur as "ni ge pi."

Glad you got the essential words out of the way !

 

I once was commenting to Zixuan how 'zi' was often at the end of a word.. And she called me "tuzi" (Rabbit-- the year I was born).

 

So, we had joked about how we are each other's pillow..

 

and to further the joke I said, "wo shi ni de pillowzi". ( I am your pillow, true Chinglish).

 

She laughed so hard.. she said i am her butt!

 

I have yet to find the spelling... Is it pizi or what did I say with the 'zi' ending??

[yuehan123]

Good explanation, thanks. This a good example of the other thread about dialects. I learned cesuo the way you said, but in Nanning it is different so they do not understand. Go figure.

[James]

In the middle part of China (Shanghai, Nanjing, etc.) and on southward, the zh, ch and sh sounds tend to lose their retroflex qualities (retroflex means the tongue curls way back in the mouth to give words that Beijing sound) and become z, c and s. Which basically makes certain pairs of words that would be distinguishable in the north become indistinguishable in the southern regions. If your SO is from the north, she may say "Ni shi ben dan" (You're an idiot.) But if she is from the south, that may become "Ni SI ben dan."

Now, adding to the confusion is that this lack of a distinction among those sounds means that often, people from the south have no idea whether a particular syllable's "true" pronunciation should have a retroflex or not. In other words they don't know if a word is "zhao" or "zao," "shi" or "si," "chong" or "cong." I have seen this create some confusion even among Chinese people when they are trying to figure out the name of a place or person. And in fact, if she is from a southern part of China, your SO may give you the wrong pinyin when you ask her how to spell something.

Adding even further to the confusion, sometimes southerners, knowing that they omit a lot of retroflexes, actually overcompensate, and put retroflexes where they don't belong. For example, the "cong" in "Ni cong nali lai de?" (Where are you from?) might become "chong." Or the "ce" in "cesuo" (bathroom) might become "che."

I am not very good at Mandarin, but there have been cases in my wife's city where I failed to understand things that I normally should have understood, simply because the person was speaking with a local accent, and the Mandarin I learned was the Beijing style. The first thing I had to do was stop saying "yidianr" (a little). Where my wife is from, they don't say that last R, and probably think that people who do sound like pretentious northerners.

[david_dawei]

Good explanation, thanks.  This a good example of the other thread about dialects.  I learned cesuo the way you said, but in Nanning it is different so they do not understand.  Go figure.

Of course you could use sign language.. either point to or grab your pants!

 

When in Yunnan, you could smell them as you got close, so there were were easy to find..

 

I often looked for the character for the 'mens' room. It's easy to remember the difference: The womans character looks like legs are crossed; The mans character looks like a big block head on top.. Fitting character to me.

[BuffaloPaul]

Bathroom, Restroom. Sometimes you'll see a sign as W.C. (I don't know why).

 

W.C is water closet. Believe its British origin

[david_dawei]

In the middle part of China (Shanghai, Nanjing, etc.) and on southward, the zh, ch and sh sounds tend to lose their retroflex qualities (retroflex means the tongue curls way back in the mouth to give words that Beijing sound) and become z, c and s.  Which basically makes certain pairs of words that would be distinguishable in the north become indistinguishable in the southern regions.  If your SO is from the north, she may say "Ni shi ben dan" (You're an idiot.) But if she is from the south, that may become "Ni SI ben dan."

Now, adding to the confusion is that this lack of a distinction among those sounds means that often, people from the south have no idea whether a particular syllable's "true" pronunciation should have a retroflex or not.  In other words they don't know if a word is "zhao" or "zao," "shi" or "si," "chong" or "cong."  I have seen this create some confusion even among Chinese people when they are trying to figure out the name of a place or person.  And in fact, if she is from a southern part of China, your SO may give you the wrong pinyin when you ask her how to spell something.

Adding even further to the confusion, sometimes southerners, knowing that they omit a lot of retroflexes, actually overcompensate, and put retroflexes where they don't belong.  For example, the "cong" in "Ni cong nali lai de?" (Where are you from?) might become "chong."  Or the "ce" in "cesuo" (bathroom) might become "che."

I am not very good at Mandarin, but there have been cases in my wife's city where I failed to understand things that I normally should have understood, simply because the person was speaking with a local accent, and the Mandarin I learned was the Beijing style.  The first thing I had to do was stop saying "yidianr" (a little).  Where my wife is from, they don't say that last R, and probably think that people who do sound like pretentious northerners.

Great comments... almost enought to make me give up learning it !

 

I also saw this confusion in Yunnan. Zixuan follows Beijing style...

 

yi - one

dian - time, little

er = suffix , particular to beijing style

 

dianr = dian er (two characters, so they are dropping a character, not just a letter).

 

Before I went on my first visit, I made sure I understood all manners of asking for beer...

 

yi ping pi jiu = a bottle of beer

 

ji ping? = how many bottles [of beer , understood in an exchange of ordering beer]

 

liang ping = two bottles (!)

 

My SO would say, 'Pingr' (ping er) , and I could not figure out what she was saying... so I just let her order and drank...

[david_dawei]

Bathroom, Restroom.   Sometimes you'll see a sign as W.C. (I don't know why).

 

W.C is water closet. Believe its British origin

well.. I don't think I'll forget it now...

[James]

what does pingr sound like when pronounced?

[david_dawei]

what does pingr sound like when pronounced?

haha.. I started to put it in that post and got tongue tied, and left it out !!

 

ping er = pingr = bottle

 

pingr: THe "g" goes really flat and almost disappears.. Try to say the "g" fairly fast, and emphasis the "r".

 

 

-- more on the suffix 'er' --

 

yi dianr = yi dian = a little.

 

if the 'little' is supposed to carry a negative connotation, then , "you dian" is used.

 

wo you dianr lei (I'm a little tired)

ta you dianr qi (she's a little angry)

 

The "you" which is more popularly known in "mei you" (don't have).

[yuehan123]

Good description, James. That is exactly what happened today with w.c. I typed cesuo my SO said "no, it is...."

[david_dawei]

I got a little (yi dian !!) information out of my SO about internet short hand abbreviations...

 

She said she didn't know much and did not want to tell me at first.. she says that only the young children will speak this way... [i wanted to tell her to come to CFL and see that we are actually acting like little children some times, so I should know it...]

 

Anyway, this is her version of some short hand:

 

mm = girl (nothing more... but most seem to use it in a slightly wider sense)

gg = boy (ditto)

 

plmm = piao liang meimei = nice girl

 

88 = bye

 

521 = I love you

 

 

Can anyone add to this ??