ChinaDavid

PINK IS VERY BEAUTIFUL!!!! Thanks to all for your comments.

Update: She has her pink slip. She returns next Wednesday to receive her visa. To answer some questions, no .... I did not include an evolution of the relationship to the application. That was a mistake it turns out, as we learned in November. I thought the deed to our apartment in Zhanjiang, my passport showing the entry and departure stamps for 6 visits, the log of 648 internet conversations (date, time, duration), the 22 date-stamped photos, the phone bills for 6 months showing 151 telephone calls, and the log of our daily internet communication from the day we met would paint the picture for them. I was wrong. Anyway, it's all history as we now have the pink slip. One odd thing....the evening before she received her pink slip for the K3 visa (the day after dropping off her passport), she received a telephone call from an Consulate employee who tried very hard to convince her to abandon her K3 application and await her CR1 visa processing, the file which had just arrived at the Consulate. She wisely decided to take the bird in hand.

At long last, my dear wife of 14 months has received her pink slip for the K3 visa. HOORAY!!!!!! (This was after getting the blue slip in November.) Of course, almost everyone at the Consulate in Guangzhou recognizes and knows the meaning of the pink slip, so she received many congratulations. The only odd thing was that after she turned in her passport on Wednesday, she received a call on Thursday evening from a woman who works for the Consulate. Coincidentally, it turns out, her CR1 application file arrived at the Consulate. The timing was quite coincidental, as we have been asking about the CR1 ever since receiving notification last September that the application had been forwarded to Guangzhou. Just last week in an email they said it had still not arrived. Anyway, this woman tried very hard to to convince my wife to abandon her K3 application and wait another 2 - 4 months for the processing of the "much better" CR1 visa. Keep in mind that this phone call came the evening before she was to get her pink slip for the K3 and the day after she had left her passport at the Consulate. Although we are both aware of the significant advantages to the CR1 over the K3, we thought it odd that someone from the Consulate would call her and try to convince her to abandon her K3 application the evening before receiving her pink slip. Needless to say, she told the Consulate employee NO. If and when the CR1 visa is available we might decide to return to Guangzhou, but in the meantime, she will be with me in the USA. Has anyone else encountered a similar situation, where they try to convince you to abandon your application literally hours before receiving the pink slip? To both of us it was very strange and disconcerting. Assuming no glitches, she will have her visa next Wednesday, and arrive in the USA the following Monday. HOORAY!!!!!!!!

Like so many others, the stories are all so similar.... we also received the blue slip last November 13, 2007. They asked I hand write a statement of our first and second meetings, when we first met in person and later married. Fortunately, we were able to mail in the statement so they received it November 15, unlike many others who must make an appointment to submit the requested information. Then the waiting game began again. Today my wife received a letter telling her to return to Guangzhou with her passport. We are hopeful this leads to the visa sometime next week. Tonight she is on a bus to Guangzhou, and tomorrow afternoon she will hand in her passport. We will keep you posted....but if all goes well, we are reunited in 2 or 3 weeks, and this time in the USA (although, quite frankly, I'd prefer to be with her in China now!).

David, If I understand your words above, you normally don't advise attending ACH. Why do you believe that ACH is normally not a good idea? I ask this because it helped me out immensely, and maybe there is something I am missing about ACH. ILS I Understand that you say it helped YOU... I think it is mostly a "feel-good" experience for the USC more than anything else... but the USC doesn't interview.. and I don't know if it truly does anything much to ones case (they make a note you were there) nor prepare the SO anymore... if it gives her a shot of confidence to see this step, then that's good. SO, I just don't see a 'general need' to be at ACH... historically, it doesn't seem to matter that much; too many people pass without a visit to prove this. I wouldn't put much stock into it as if it were going to alter someones chances that much, although I think that there are certain cases that might warrant it. So, it's not that I believe it is "not a good idea".. just not necessary in all cases... therefore, I don't advise it till I see the need... This is so eerily familiar. My wife also saw a young Black American male. He wrote: "We need a bit more clarity of the relation because the timing is not clear." Almost the exact same words. I hope she does not get another blue slip. I hand wrote the statement he requested ("Please have your husband hand write a statement of your first meeting.") and we await the overcome. Please, please no more blue slips. I feel for you!!!!!! We shall overcome! Another comment: I returned to the Consulate the following day (a Thursday) to try to find out what to expect and when, now that we had received a blue slip. I spoke to a Vice Consul in American Services who told me he could not answer questions and did not work in the visa section. He strongly encouraged me to return the following Monday at 2:30pm. Although specific visa cases could not be addressed (he told me), if I made a good impression and they felt everything was bonafide, it could not hurt and perhaps a positive notation would be made to my wife's case file. Unfortunately, we had no intention of remaining in Guangzhou another 4 days, nor taking the 12-hour (r/t) bus ride back to Guangzhou... just in case I might make a good impression and a positive notation be made in her case file. In your case, MaryAnn, I see absolutely no downside to Larry going and asking questions. Our case is different as we are going for a K3, have been married over a year, I have traveled to be with my wife 6 times in the past 14 months, and we have purchased an apartment together in China. But the overcome requirements are almost the same. Clarity of the relationship and timing issues. My wife Shaofang and I will be thinking of you on December 10. The best of luck to you both!

David, If I understand your words above, you normally don't advise attending ACH. Why do you believe that ACH is normally not a good idea? I ask this because it helped me out immensely, and maybe there is something I am missing about ACH. ILS I Understand that you say it helped YOU... I think it is mostly a "feel-good" experience for the USC more than anything else... but the USC doesn't interview.. and I don't know if it truly does anything much to ones case (they make a note you were there) nor prepare the SO anymore... if it gives her a shot of confidence to see this step, then that's good. SO, I just don't see a 'general need' to be at ACH... historically, it doesn't seem to matter that much; too many people pass without a visit to prove this. I wouldn't put much stock into it as if it were going to alter someones chances that much, although I think that there are certain cases that might warrant it. So, it's not that I believe it is "not a good idea".. just not necessary in all cases... therefore, I don't advise it till I see the need... This is so eerily familiar. My wife also saw a young Black American male. He wrote: "We need a bit more clarity of the relation because the timing is not clear." Almost the exact same words. I hope she does not get another blue slip. I hand wrote the statement he requested ("Please have your husband hand write a statement of your first meeting.") and we await the overcome. Please, please no more blue slips. I feel for you!!!!!! We shall overcome!

Sorry to hear of your blue slip.. but if everything was clear then there would probably be no blue; the fact is, for close to 2 years, GUZ has been more critical on the relationships and IMBRA may be part of that reason. While USCIS will see if you two meet the requirements to file for a visa via DOS, NVC does not 'approve' of the case in any real way; they just enter some info and verify a few things but hardly can they deny any part of the case. GUZ wants to know how people first meet more for immigration reasons, rather than requirements (like USCIS); Is the intention for immigration without fraud and/or can they issue it based on what they see in the case. If they cannot issue a visa based on what they see, they will ask for more... The important thing is, you satisfy their inquiry. Without hearing the interview in detail and not knowing what you submitted, it's hard to advise any outcome... but overall, the rate of overcome success is very high. good luck. It's not a big deal. The overcome should be no problem. I hand wrote the statement they asked for and overnighted it while still in Guangzhou. They've had it for over 2 weeks now, so she should receive her letter telling her to return with her passport in the next 2 - 4 weeks and receive her visa. But it is not so much as what was submitted that angers me about the decision, it is the things submitted that they chose to not look at: the deed to the apartment we bought December 2006, logs of twice+ daily internet communications for 16 months (usually 2 hours each time), 6 months of recent phone bills (151 calls), and a log of internet contact showing DAILY contact for over 16 months, except for the 4 months I was with her during my 6 visits. It would take someone very dedicated visa fraud to have such contact for so long, have such photos, and purchase a home together to perpetrate such a fraud. He DID look at the date-stamped 22 photos, a few from each visit, but most were from our wedding celebration on my 3rd visit. He DID look at my passport very carefully and saw the 6 entry and departure stamps. He refused to look at the rest of the documentation. Perhaps that first meeting is more important than I thought. I thought it was the subsequent meetings, the marriage, the proof of all those trips to be with my wife that were of greater importance than the first meeting. I think a better trained or more seasoned VO would have easily realized this was not a marriage of convenience or visa fraud if he had not shoved back to my wife all the other documentation she tried to show him without his looking at it. The photos alone should have told him. Look at our gallery of just 7 photos and decide for yourself if this is a bonafide marriage or not.

Sorry to hear of your blue slip.. but if everything was clear then there would probably be no blue; the fact is, for close to 2 years, GUZ has been more critical on the relationships and IMBRA may be part of that reason. While USCIS will see if you two meet the requirements to file for a visa via DOS, NVC does not 'approve' of the case in any real way; they just enter some info and verify a few things but hardly can they deny any part of the case. GUZ wants to know how people first meet more for immigration reasons, rather than requirements (like USCIS); Is the intention for immigration without fraud and/or can they issue it based on what they see in the case. If they cannot issue a visa based on what they see, they will ask for more... The important thing is, you satisfy their inquiry. Without hearing the interview in detail and not knowing what you submitted, it's hard to advise any outcome... but overall, the rate of overcome success is very high. good luck.

The GUZ letter will arrive via EMS, same as your P3 and P4 did. If all is well, it will say to return to GUZ Mon-Wed 2pm-3pm with your passport to continue your visa application. Turn in your passport and wait 2 days for the pink. Then wait another 2 working days for the visa. That is wonderful news, but how did you know that?? Coming from someone in waiting for a dange P-3???? That would be from first hand knowledge. The general advice is to go to the Consulate on Monday or Tuesday to turn in the passport to have the visa ready for pickup on Friday or Saturday. Those who go on Wednesday end up spending an extra day in GZ to get the visa on Monday. This is assuming everything went right and there were no hiccups in preparing the visa, such as someone unplugged the visa machine or they ran out of official US Government glue. LOL, Lee. I have already told my wife to expect to go on a Monday, no matter what day she gets her letter, and hopefully return home on Friday with visa in hand. Then the following Sunday or Monday catch a flight to the USA....assuming the visa machine is plugged in and there is sufficient official US Government glue available. BTW, we share the same surname. I am David Fisher. Hopefully she is here in time for Christmas. If not soon into the new year. Best wishes to all and to all a good journey to that visa. Expect bumps along the road, but eventually for virtually all it will end gloriously and the bumps will be a distant memory.

We both were previously married and divorced. She has two sons, I have four daughters. She divorced on April 18, 2000 and I divorced on October 4, 2004. It is doubtful that the dates of our divorces had any bearing on the decision. I think the issue was that we married on my second trip, hence the timing question. Perhaps he thought the marriage was not bonafide since we married so soon after my first visit to her. What he cannot know is what true soul mates we are, and that we saw no reason to delay our marriage knowing this. There was no documentation of what our hearts and minds knew, so he asked me to hand write a statement of our first meeting. My response was 5 pages, telling about all my trips and the exact timing of our meetings and our marriage and all the subsequent trips. I could have written a book, but chose not to. No, the divorces don't seem to be the problem. Thanks for clarifying. I guess you're right, this VO just wanted to give you another hoop to jump through. Good luck with the overcome. Yes, another hoop to jump through. All he has to do is tell me how high to jump. The overcome will be no problem (I hope!). If you want to know my personal opinion, and it may be way off base (but is based upon what my wife told me about her interview)... he couldn't understand how I had no job, she had no job, yet I had come to China 10 times in the past 26 months, bought an apartment there, still met the asset requirements (as there was no income to speak of); she answered all his questions in English until he spoke too rapidly for her to understand, and he didn't believe that we actually could talk to each other and understand each other (although she explained that I spoke some Chinese and clearly understood her English and she understood my English); it was 8:00am, his first interview of the day, he knew I was there in Guangzhou, and he just wanted to make our lives a bit more difficult... just a little bit... as his wasn't all he dreamed of. He is maybe 23 years old (my wife's estimate) and just doesn't have the proper perspective. In a year or two, if he lasts that long, he will know which visas to deny and which are obvious no-brainers. That's my opinion. Also, being that young and having such power over the lives of people can be a heady thing, and there is sometimes an overwhelming desire to flex that power for personal reasons, not for valid professional reasons. A little more training and maturity will go a long way with this particular VO.

The GUZ letter will arrive via EMS, same as your P3 and P4 did. If all is well, it will say to return to GUZ Mon-Wed 2pm-3pm with your passport to continue your visa application. Turn in your passport and wait 2 days for the pink. Then wait another 2 working days for the visa. That is wonderful news, but how did you know that?? Coming from someone in waiting for a dange P-3???? The Vice-Consul I spoke with on the day following her interview told me essentially the same thing: she would soon get a letter telling her to bring her passport and the visa would be issued (assuming my statement satisfied the concerns). He did not go into the details of which days and times and how long she can expect to remain in Guangzhou awaiting her visa. That is what I meant by "that is wonderful news". It filled in some of the blanks.

We both were previously married and divorced. She has two sons, I have four daughters. She divorced on April 18, 2000 and I divorced on October 4, 2004. It is doubtful that the dates of our divorces had any bearing on the decision. I think the issue was that we married on my second trip, hence the timing question. Perhaps he thought the marriage was not bonafide since we married so soon after my first visit to her. What he cannot know is what true soul mates we are, and that we saw no reason to delay our marriage knowing this. There was no documentation of what our hearts and minds knew, so he asked me to hand write a statement of our first meeting. My response was 5 pages, telling about all my trips and the exact timing of our meetings and our marriage and all the subsequent trips. I could have written a book, but chose not to.

Hi Charles, Why would this happen? Why would a VO be told ahead of time to issue a blue slip and who would tell the VO to do that? Thanks Hi Mike, What I meant by this is what has been discussed here before. In other words, the initial interview result has already been predetermined largely based on the initial evidence with the initial filing. It's not necessarily "who" would tell the VO but rather "red flags" would tell the VO. You know, the SOP of "profiling." There is absolutely nothing in any evidence, initial or otherwise, that would "red flag" my wife's visa. The application was reviewed and accepted by the NVC and Homeland Security. There was overwhelming evidence of a bonafide marriage. The guy just was flexing his muscles. In a year or two he will be more seasoned and better trained and not delay the visa because of reasons never to be known or understood.

That is really good news. It's what I was hoping for and somewhat expecting, but you gave much more detail than anyone at the Consulate could. Many thanks!

Here is my story... my wife was denied her K3 visa November 13, 2007 (two weeks ago), and was given a blue slip which we hope to overcome relatively easily and in a relatively short period of time. But why? I met her on-line July 3, 2006. We have had DAILY conversations since then except for the times I was with her. Before we met in person, we both suspected we had, against all odds, actually met our true soul mates. We met in person in September 2006 and it was pure magic. 15 days of pure bliss. We found that everything validated what we had typed and said to each other each and every day for the prior two months. As soon as I returned to the USA I booked my next trip for November 2006. In October we began serious discussions about the possibility of marriage during my second trip. She was reluctant. Too soon. But she was not completely forthright initially about why it was too soon. It was because of culture and family pressures.... no time to arrange the wedding celebration, send invitations, etc. I dearly love my mother-in-law and the feeling is mutual. She agreed that if I returned in January 2007 to have the wedding celebration for family and friends, Shaofang could marry me in November 2006, which we did toward the end of my 21-day visit on November 23, 2006. In December 2006 my wife and I purchased an apartment that was being constructed in Zhanjiang (her home city). I returned in January 2007 for the wedding celebration. WONDERFUL!!! I returned again in April 2007, and then again for a month in June/July 2007 after our apartment's construction was completed and we furnished it. At that point in time, we decided my next trip would coincide with her K3 visa interview..thinking it would be in September. Of course, it was delayed because the Packet #3 was returned to the Consulate as "undeliverable" and it took another 2 months, many emails, and Congressional intervention to get the packet resent. Then, they later sent the wrong Packet #4 with the wrong forms, but that was corrected within days. Her interview was November 13. I arrived November 10, we went to Guangzhou on the 11th to get her medical papers and pay the interview fee on the 12th. She was first in line and the first one called for an interview. I can go into details of the interview in another post if anyone is interested. All the paperwork was in order and accepted. No problems. Except she got the wrong guy on the wrong day. Blue slip. He wrote: "We need a bit more clarity of the relation because the timing is not clear. Please have your husband hand write a statement of your first meeting." She was very clear as to the dates of all my 6 visits. She had my passport and he looked at the entry and departure stamps. He spent much time looking at the 22 date-stamped photos of the first 5 visits (most of them were January 2007 wedding celebration photos, but there were at least 3 from each other visit). Yet he wrote, "the timing is not clear". She had documentation of 648 internet "telephone" calls (microphone and webcam) by date, time and duration. Usually they were twice a day, 2 hours each time. She had documentation of 151 telephone calls from my telephone to her telephone for the 6-month period of May 2007- October 2007. She had documentation of DAILY internet contact from July 3, 2006 until the date I printed the documentation (October 15, 2007).... except for the dates I was with her. He refused to look at any of this documentation. The Guangzhou Consulate is infamous for arbitrary visa denials for no apparent reason. He cited section 221(g) of the Immigration and Nationality Act as a reason for denial. A careful reading of that section, and all other sections cited in THAT section shows that it is not relevant at all to his decision. I truly believe that had she been called to any of the other windows that morning, she would now be here with me in the USA. We had hoped to return November 20. As things turned out, I re-booked my flight home (alone) to November 26 so we could be together in our Zhanjiang home on the first anniversary of our BONAFIDE marriage between two soul mates. One good thing is that we were allowed to mail in my statement, instead of going through the arcane process of paying a fee, getting a PIN, calling a telephone number to schedule an appointment in Guangzhou (another 6 weeks or longer) in which to submit my statement. I returned to the Consulate on Wednesday, November 14 to hopefully find out just what we could now expect, what additional steps we must take, what fees we must pay, what forms I must now prepare. I was told I must return on Monday at 2:30pm if I wanted to ask any questions about the visa process, and they must be general questions.. not specific to my wife's case. Only on Mondays at 2:30pm.... but do not be late, because they do not allow any entrance after 2:30pm. I asked, "Is there no one in the US Consulate who can answer a few simple questions from a US Citizen?" The Vice-Consul I spoke with finally agreed to answer some questions, with the caveat that he does not work in the visa section and if I want any visa-related questions answered I must return on Monday at 2:30pm. For not working in the visa section, he was then a font of information. He told me that after they receive my mailed-in statement, it would take a few days to over a week to be processed and then routed to the official who denied my wife's visa. That offical would eventually find it at the bottom of the stack of his other denials, read it, and if it satisfied his curiosity about our first meeting he would then send my wife a letter telling her to return to Guangzhou. Would I need to prepare another I-134? No. Would we need to pay another interview fee? No. Would my wife need to bring all the documentation again? No, it has already been reviewed and accepted at her interview. What does she need to bring? Her passport so we can put the visa in it. When will this happen? In 4 - 6 weeks. We overnighted the statement, so we're supposedly now down to 2.5 -4.5 weeks. We anxiously await the letter to see what it actually tells her what she must do, bring, and when. It truly is a roll of the dice who you get and when for the interview and his/her mood at the time... assuming all the documentation is correct and proper. Our case is so very different from a friend of hers (mine as well) who married a USA man in February 2006. He met her and married her on his one and only trip to China. He filed her K3 application as petitioner in May 2006. She received her K3 visa in May 2007 and came to the USA.... to be with her husband for the first time since they met and married last year.... the only time they were ever together from marriage to visa and entrance to the USA. It truly is a roll of the dice who you get and what mood they are in.