Communist Party Membership

[Guest BouncingBohemian]

hello,

 

My fiance is a communist party member because of her job.

On the DS-230 it basically says if you are a communist party

member, you are ineligible for a VISA.

 

I checked the regulations further at

 

http://travel.state.gov/visa/frvi_waivers2.html

 

 

INA Section 212(a)(3)(D)(i) says "any applicant who is or has been...

a member of the communist ... party, domestic or foreign, is inadmissible.

(sounds bad)

 

INA Section 212(a)(3)(D)(ii) says there is an exception for "involuntary"

membership:

 

Clause (i) shall not apply to an alien because of membership or affiliation if the alien establishes to the satisfaction of the consular officer when applying for a visa (or to the satisfaction of the Attorney General when applying for admission) that the membership or affiliation is or was involuntary, ... or for purposes of obtaining employment...

 

THIS SOUNDS BETTER, BUT does anyone have experience with

"establishing to the satisfaction of the consular officer" that

party membership was necessary for a job? How can you prove

that without getting your boss involved? I don't think there's

any form anywhere that says "you have to be a communist

party member to get this job," but it is common knowledge

that without it, you have virtually no chance.

 

Help!

 

My fiance joined the party only because it was good for her career path.

She thinks communism is stupid. That's one of the reasons she is willing

to come to the US and marry me!

 

Are we dead in the water?

[Jeikun]

This is so 1950's cold war era junk...

 

Not "Been a member of a terrorist orginization", but "Been a communist".... eeek the big bad reds are marrying our sons, to bear them children and run back to their motherland to raise commies with birthright to US citizenship to be spies!!!!

 

Sorry... You're looking for useful info, and I'm just complaining. But I understand your feelings. I think that whole "communists need not apply" thing needs to go.

 

Yep, equality of race, gender, religion, creed, color, national origin... except commies! What a crock.

[Dave G.]

This is a very, very tricky topic. I advise caution.

[tywy_99]

look here

[Guest Fionas_Fiance]

Hi, thanks for the links. It's encouraging that chinadave1's sarah

declared it and still got a VISA. And "Mick" said he had a number

of friends who were active members and got a VISA with no

problem.

 

However, King writes this:

 

...it would not be a good idea to assume there will be no problem

with CP membership in China. I have had several cases where it

was the ground for refusal.

 

Shit!

 

I'm specifically worried about the 3rd page of the DS-230,

which ( http://www.state.gov/m/a/dir/c4456.htm ) states:

 

Except as otherwise provided by law, aliens within the following

classifications are ineligible to receive a VISA. Do any of the

classifications apply to you?

 

c. an alien....; who is a member of affiliated with the Communist party

 

This is on Part 2 of the DS-230. On www.visajourney.com, it says

my fiance will be sent "DS-230 or OS-230 part one." Does the Part One

apply to the DS-230 as well?! If so, maybe they will never ask the question!

 

CAN ANYONE WITH A PACKET 3 OR WHO HAS BEEN THROUGH THE WHOLE

PROCESS TELL ME IF THEY WERE ASKED TO FILL OUT THE 2nd PART OF

DS-230 or OS-230, OR ASKED A QUESTION SIMILAR TO THE ABOVE ON

ANY OF THEIR FORMS?

 

Thanks very much!

[Guest BouncingBohemian]

It is interesting (and hopeful) to note that on the DS-156, the clause about communist party membership has been specifically removed!

 

 

From the DS-230, Part Two, line 30©:

 

An alien who seeks to enter the United States to engage in espionage, sabotage, export control violations, terrorist activities, the overthrow of

the Government of the United States or other unlawful activity; who is a member of or affiliated with the Communist or other totalitarian

party; who participated in Nazi persecutions or genocide; who has engaged in genocide; or who is a member or representative of a terrorist

organization as currently designated by the U.S. Secretary of State.

c.

 

From the DS-156, line 38, third bullet:

 

Do you seek to enter the United States to engage in export control violations, subversive or terrorist activities, or any

other unlawful purpose? Are you a member or representative of a terrorist organization as currently designated by the

U.S. Secretary of State? Have you ever participated in persecutions directed by the Nazi government of Germany; or

have you ever participated in genocide?

[Guest BouncingBohemian]

I sent email to chinadave1 and king asking them to chime in,

if available.

 

If anyone has a current packet 3 sitting in front of them and

can take a look to see if they are asked the question about

membership, I'd appreciate it.

 

Does the question ever get asked in the consular interview?

Maybe the "don't ask, don't tell" policy will work for us!

[Guest BouncingBohemian]

AHA! Look at what I just found on the US embassy web site:

 

http://www.usembassy-china.org.cn/guangzho...u/iv/kvfaq.html

 

 

====================================================

What documents will be in the instruction packet and appointment packet?

 

The Instruction packet in Guangzhou includes:

 

Instruction packet (Packet 3) letter in English

Instruction packet (Packet 3) letter in Chinese

Instruction packet (Packet 3) supplemental information sheet

Application for immigrant visa and alien registration (DS-230 part I)

Instructions for immigrant visa applicants (OF-169)

Notice to all nonimmigrant visa applicants (list of CITIC Bank)

Evidence which may be presented to meet the public charge provisions of the law (OF-167)

 

Notice the beautiful two words ("part I") following DS-230!

 

 

 

The "Appointment Packet" for the interview also includes

DS156, 1566K, and 157, but those don't include the question

about communist party membership.

 

 

"don't ask, don't tell" strategy starting to look pretty good...

[Guest Gene]

DS-230 part II is in package-4 and is signed in front of the VO

[Guest BouncingBohemian]

> DS-230 part II is in package-4 and is signed in front of the VO

 

Ouch!

 

OK, thanks, at least now we know what to expect.

 

Ouch!

 

So much for "don't tell, don't ask"

[Guest BouncingBohemian]

So my new question is,

 

For those whose wives/husbands were communist party members,

and who went through the interview, and who said "yes" to the

question on the DC-230 Part 2, what was their experience? Or

if this applies to you personally, what was your experience?

 

A. Did he/she/you get the VISA?

B. If you got the VISA, were you approved on the spot,

or did you have to go through a lengthy appeal process?

Did your fiance (or you) prepare any sort of statement in

advance to explain that your job required membership?

 

In the meantime, I guess I'll start looking for a lawyer...

 

Thanks very much to everyone for their replies so far (both

direct and private), I feel as though I've learned a lot. It

does seem like something we will have to take seriously.

[Guest BouncingBohemian]

Well, the lawyers all seem to say Communist Party membership

is no problem, and they will be happy to tell me how to deal with

it if I give them $1500 - $1800.

 

I don't suppose anyone out there could tell me what they would

say if I did give them the $1500...

 

I'm tempted to just call up Ghangzhou and ask them what their

policy is. Does this sound like a good idea or a bad idea?

[corvette]

Well, the lawyers all seem to say Communist Party membership

is no problem, and they will be happy to tell me how to deal with

it if I give them $1500 - $1800.

 

I don't suppose anyone out there could tell me what they would

say if I did give them the $1500...

 

I'm tempted to just call up Ghangzhou and ask them what their

policy is. Does this sound like a good idea or a bad idea?

I confirmed with the American consulate. (A friend of my Colleague's is working there). It won't be a problem if the membership is cancelled. But, if you told the VO it was cancelled but actually it wasn't they would be able to check it out. They will investigate if you say yes to the question. Just be careful.

[Guest BouncingBohemian]

THANK YOU SO MUCH! I THINK THIS IS WHAT I NEEDED TO KNOW.

 

It is interesting: the regulation says if you've been a communist

party member in the last five years, you're dead meat. But the

DS-230 only asks you if you are CURRENTLY a member. I never

noticed this distinction before. There is certainly a huge appeal

to be able to say "No," truthfully.

 

Another irony: I was disappointed with the lack of response on

this topic in the last couple of days, so I just posted a similar

topic on visajourney.com - and as soon as I was done posting,

I saw this response! It just goes to show that sometimes when

you want the elevator to come, the best thing to do is start

taking the stairs!

 

THANK YOU AGAIN