Successful Visitors' Visa

[newguy47]

I have known my girlfriend for nearly two months now. Due to some minor orthopedic problem that afforded me time off, I was able to travel to China and meet her in July. After I got to know her in July, we attempted to get her a tourist visa at the Chengdu Consulate in August. No dice. And the letter from me I think actually hurt. She was told to seek a K-1. We hired a visa agent. They told us Guangzhou was a better place to try for the visa but gave us a low chance of success due to folks already knowing she has a boyfriend in the states. I wrote a totally honest letter to the visa officer. She was coached from training with the hired agent but also totally honest. She is very attractive and under 30 years old. She was awarded the 10 year multiple entry tourist visa.

 

I would be happy to provide more details to anyone who wants them including the name of the agent assisting us. I have her QQ. But the purpose of this post is not to plug her business other than to share information if specifically requested. It is to ask folks very experienced with this how things work from here. I realize this is a much better place than some folks who struggle for a year or more to be with a spouse or loved one(s).

 

But I need to know, are we basically golden with six month visits interrupted by visa runs (as we financially could do that) until marriage and DCF or until K-1? I obviously need to know my girlfriend for a longer period of time before marriage, but will there be problems with re-entry if she stays in the states for long periods of time? We essentially promised the visa officer that we were certain she would return "on time," and we intend to keep that promise. There is no reason for us not to. How long do we need to wait for her to revisit the states when she returns? Days/weeks/months? Is this the kind of thing that should be scheduled around something like their Spring Festival? Basically, with a tourist visa, what is the level of scrutiny for re-entry if you leave within the time given you the prior time you entered the states? I am sure someone on this forum knows the answers to these questions. My trips to China seem to get easier each time on the Chinese side as I guess they see I have entered multiple times without causing any trouble. I am not sure if that will happen for her in the states.

 

In terms of a potential K-1, we have only one issue, but it is potentially very much a delay problem. Like other ladies mentioned here, she was a top student in university and rewarded with the honor of being invited to join the Communist Party of China. She has been only a rank and file member with no participation beyond helping talk about how to spend resources to benefit disabled or elderly persons in her local community. If things should progress, what would be the better course of action: K-1 or on a subsequent entry marry in the US and apply for what folks here call DCF with the advantage that she would already be in the states? Would they revoke the tourist visa when such an application is made? She doesn't like the fact that the US taxes citizens on all global income, and I am not so sure how much she wants citizenship or a green card. Any advice from persons here with more wisdom and experience that I have would be much appreciated.

[newguy47]

Sorry. I meant tourist visa rather than visitor's visa in the topic title.

[Greg.D.]

Congratulations on your success. And, hope you have found a potential, good life partner.

 

I don't think anybody here will comment on entering on a K1 with the intention to marry and do adjustment of status. That is, strategizing to break the law is not the usual fare here.

 

In a recent post, by the way, I mention that the CCP delay for us this past July was only 47 days.

 

Your other questions about how to play the visits: timing, length ---- basically I am not understanding you (including her visits to the U.S., and yours to China). If you have any visa violations by the time you are doing the K1 application you will have to admit to that on the I-129f form. And it will come up again later.

 

I don't think you need to scheme, just remember to takes lots of pictures that include the both of you, save your tix, try to document your communications. Just the usual advice that is also freely available to anybody with a computer! It works!

 

Finally, brother, I am getting a weird vibe from your post. Don't know if it comes from working with a lawyer who has made you think getting a visa requires scheming, gaming and maybe even deception. Or, it's just your nature: but, really, just follow the directions! Good advice available here and on visajourney.com. And: go slow! I get the feeling you are moving pretty fast. Two months is the window in which we are still in that head over heels, limerant phase. You gotta have some ups and downs. Sure: nice to know how the process will work before you need to go that way. That is MY nature, I was checking out the procedure by myself on the side, not together with her at the beginning. Together: maybe a year in.

 

Re: your question "what would be the better course ...?" I can tell you that we planned along to do K1 and she will have her visa in hand in a week; took us 8-9 months. She's been here a few times on the same visa. Everything has gone smoothly, no lawyers needed.

 

Hope I didn't come on too strong, just want you to make the right decision - regardless of who is from what country.

[dnoblett]

A note, yes will be allowed up to 6 months visit, however in many cases, if leave and then return to the states shortly after leaving, the POE officer can deny entry or set a very short stay, I have seen many posts on VJ where this was the case even for Canadians.

 

DCF is the process of filing a spouse visa petition at the consulate in Beijing or Guangzhou if a US Citizen is living in China.

 

In your case you would have a couple options, if you do decide to marry, you can marry in the states, and then file an I-130 spouse visa petition, your then spouse would not overstay the visit, and return to China and then interview for a CR-1 spouse visa.

 

The other option would be to file for a K-1, however it would not make much sense, the K-1 would cost nearly $800+ in added fees, compared to the CR-1. CR-1 gets a green card upon arrival whereas the K-1 has months of added processing after arrival to get a green-card.

 

The third option that has the risk of denial is get married a few months after arrival on the B-2 and then file an I-130 and I-485 to adjust status there will be an interview, and if the interviewing officer determines that the B-2 was misused to immigrate, they can simply deny and start deportation process. (Risky)

[newguy47]

Greg D,

I don't know from what portion of my post you inferred that I intended to break any law of any country. If I said or implied that, please point it out to me if you have time. Such is not my intention.

 

In terms of gaming the visa, my sole intent is to maximize her time in the states with me without making the folks at the point of entry annoyed or set a short time. We never intend to be in an overstay situation either in China or in the states. My notion of gaming the system is acting within the law to maximize one's happiness. In the visa situation, they usually will initially set 6 months is what I have seen. But using all six months seems to possibly be problematic. So, how long is too long? And low long should she stay out of the states before seeking re-entry? At this point, I basically would like her to be here all the time she can without having too high a probability of annoying one of the immigration officers.

 

We have many pictures, including at tourist sites in two different metropolitan areas of China.

 

If the CCP delay is down to a month and a half, that is not too bad. There is a spreadsheet elsewhere on the forum that shows depressingly long numbers of days, but it may be old. I think I saw something on visajourney.

 

You didn't come on too strong at all, and you seem to sincerely wish me well, which I appreciate. You are right about the initial stages of the relationship. And we will get to really know each other better before getting too serious.

 

There has been and will be no deception with respect to any visa I or the lady has sought or will be seeking. I hope folks are aware of the potential consequences of deception.... I don't really know how to comment about a "vibe" but can certainly respond to specific questions.

 

 

-------------------------------------------

 

dnoblett,

 

I definitely got the DCF thing wrong, then.

 

She stated to the interviewing officer that she did not intend to get married "soon" after arriving in the states on the B-2. So, we will need to do that. Of course, we just met mid-July so from a practical standpoint we need to get to know each other better anyway. Please correct me if I am wrong, but I think you were saying that maybe the second or third time she comes to the states on the B-2 which is at least six or so months for its being granted then potentially if all is well a marriage could happen and that would not be viewed as some sort of misrepresentation or deceit? After all, the visa is 10 years. One would think the longer the time is from issue the worse the argument would be that the B-2 was misused as an immigrant visa.

 

Thank everyone for comments thus far.

 

I don't know if the title of the post can be changed by someone else to reflect "Tourist Visa" as I tried after posting and could not.

[Randy W]

Whether "Tourist" or "Visitor" the meaning is the same.

 

There is no law against getting married at anytime or anywhere where you satisfy the local requirements. For immigration purposes, however, if you then try to USE the marriage and a non-immigrant visa for your own advantage in the immigration system, you MAY be accused of fraud. This is known as "gaming" the system. Don't look to us to tell you it's okay to do so.

 

You obviously have every intention of marriage and immigration - you have stated so here. The fact that you can claim that you MIGHT NOT get married may not carry much weight in a court of law. Do you really want to leave her open to possible accusations of fraud, and, potentially, a 10 year ban on further entry?

 

Take a deep breath, use your time together to decide whether you wish to get married. Once you DO marry, you can apply for an immigrant visa, with her waiting out the processing while in China.

 

- OR - you can talk to a local immigration attorney who is familiar with both the USCIS policies and the immigration courts in your area if you want to evaluate the likelihood that she would be allowed to stay after getting married on a B-2 and filing an I-130.

[newguy47]

The folks who work with Cherry Blossoms (not where we met, just one of many resources I have used to meet many people and finally find my girlfriend) advertise a 95% success rate for a K-1.

 

There is an attorney with that services. Maybe I would call the service when the time comes to think seriously about this. I do not presently intend to marry her but I think we will probably get married. Not sure if that makes sense. Maybe I should say the intent is to figure out where the relationship should go for both of us. I made no representation one way or another regarding marrying her in my letter to the Visa Officer. She made the representation only that we would not use the nonimmigrant visa to marry "soon" during her interview. Not sure what "soon" means, but I think the law would usually give the word its meaning to a reasonable person providing the answer she provided, which was "no." As far as I know, neither one of us intends to marry at this point until we get to know each other well over a period of time. However, she is definitely a potential marriage partner for me. I just need to continue getting to know her. The tourist visa obviously extends for a period beyond the usual meaning of the word "soon."

 

I was not looking for approval. I know from reading this forum how difficult it can sometimes be for folks to get even their spouses and long-term fiancees to the states. I intend to comply with all relevant laws and not commit fraud of any kind.

 

I really appreciate the recommendation to contact an immigration attorney. You are right that this is what should be done. I suppose that people with the blessing to already have a tourist visa for each person maybe don't wander into the forum too often.

[Randy W]

It's not a matter of you persuading US that what you are doing is "legal" - it's a matter of looking at the particulars of your situation, especially as it will be presented to the USCIS. Someone who can not only look at and oversee your paperwork, but also has knowledge of how your local Immigrations officials - both USCIS and ICE - handle these things, can serve you better than we can. Simply the appearance of potential fraud can cause legal complications.

 

Getting married while on a B-2 and filing to adjust status without leaving the country CAN leave you open to a fraud charge, but there are plenty of people who have done exactly that, successfully. It can be a fine line to walk, which is where the lawyer can come in handy. I would say that your odds of success are fairly high, but the potential penalties are high also.

 

Good luck to you.

[warpedbored]

It's all a matter of intent. If your sweet heart comes here on a tourist visa with the intention of returning to China and after being here a while you decide you can't bear to be apart, marry and file for adjustment of status, that is perfectly legal. But, and this a big but. If the interviewing officer doesn't believe you and decides she used the tourist visa with the intent of marrying once here that is visa fraud which could result in deportation and a permanent ban on re-entering the US. As Randy mentioned the chances of you succeeding are fairly high but is it worth the risk? Not IMO. As far as marrying here, as Randy said you can marry anyone anywhere anytime. If you marry here while she is visiting and she returns to China without overstaying her visa I seriously doubt it would affect the chances of her getting a spousal visa. Whether or not it would affect her being able to return on the tourist visa, it is a possibility. Her returning to China without overstaying would bode well but as Dan said trying to return too soon could result in being sent back or getting a short stay.

Good luck

Carl

[Greg.D.]

Hey, NewGuy, you sound excited! I accept your assurance that you said you are taking things slowly.

 

I thought you made a reference to the possibility of getting married on a B2 visitor visa and then filing for adjustment of status. As someone mentioned above - if the adjustment (AOS) is denied it would be on the basis of fraud - meaning they will claim that she entered as a visitor with the intent to marry and stay which contradicts implicit promises made by her in her visa application and during entry. This could come back to bite you for a long time.

 

True, some people have been succesful at this. They convinced State that the decision to marry was made after the arrival. Also: as someone above said: it is not illegal to marry on a visitor's visa. To keep it legal, the foreigner would leave the U.S. and apply for a spouse visa for re-entry.

 

Re: the CCP background check: yes, some people still have a longer than average wait time for this.

 

Also, you mention a service advertising a 95% succes rate with the K1 visa. Do you know what it the rate is for people not using that serivce? I do not. It might also be 95% for those who have a bonafide relationship, submit all application materials correctly and meet financial support requirements. Might even be higher.

 

There was a time not too long ago where the success rate was very low, at least through the Guangzhou embassy in China. People here lived through it. After their struggles and some organized effort to challenge and change the system, spouse and fiance visas through China have approached normal rates of confirmation.

Anyway, good luck, take your time right now. There is some truth to the stereotypes and cliches about spouses from the various Asian countries, even though you may think your potential mate is not that way (didn't we all think that?). And, even if she is not, her mother is!

[newguy47]

Maybe I am not familiar with these stereotypes and cliches.... I am always willing to accept enlightenment.

 

My letter of invitation read by the visa officer invited her for 15 days, so we have decided that her first stay will be limited to those 15 days. That makes us pack a lot into a short time, but even if a longer stay is granted at immigration, the whole thing will possibly be reviewed later. And the more straightforward we said this and that is what we did the whole thing is the better things may be for us in the long run if things continue to work out.

 

Does anyone know if bio engineering is regarded as sensitive technology for CCP immigration purposes? My gut tells me it would not be.

 

Hard to tell how many of the applicants had a bona fide relationship, but the published rates for Guangzhou spousal visas do not approach 95%.

 

She intends to leave the states after coming here. And we promised she would. So, she will. Without any marriage at least this first time. We really do need to know each other better than we current do.

[Greg.D.]

....

Does anyone know if bio engineering is regarded as sensitive technology for CCP immigration purposes? My gut tells me it would not be.

...

Do you mean, while considering an individual's previous association with the CCP as part of his/her background check, will they interprete their findings in light of his/her occupation?

 

I have not heard/seen any reference to this before. I don't blame you for wondering. I would say bioengineering - though broad in its scope - is no longer cutting edge technology. Probably 1000's of Chinese grad students have passed through U.S. universities to study biotechnology (genetic engineering). They have come and gone, worked for U.S. companies here and in China in this field.

 

Thus, I was pretty surprised to recently read that, despite intense study and overall competence in certain fields, they may still need to resort to espionage and theft to approach parity with American companies specializing in Ag biotech:

 

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/122441/corn-wars

 

Let me know if you want me to send the questions that are asked for the CCP background check. We just did this 2 months ago. The questions focus on the individual's motivation and role.

[newguy47]

Greg D,

 

I would very much like to see the CCP background check questions you guys wen through 2 months ago.

[Beachey]

In terms of gaming the visa, my sole intent is to maximize her time in the states with me without making the folks at the point of entry annoyed or set a short time. We never intend to be in an overstay situation either in China or in the states. My notion of gaming the system is acting within the law to maximize one's happiness. In the visa situation, they usually will initially set 6 months is what I have seen. But using all six months seems to possibly be problematic. So, how long is too long? And low long should she stay out of the states before seeking re-entry? At this point, I basically would like her to be here all the time she can without having too high a probability of annoying one of the immigration officers.

 

Unfortunately, you will not find a specific rule on how long one has to return home before coming back for another visit. Arguably, a visitor's visa is not supposed to be a replacement for a green card so some will tell you that if you stay six months in the USA, you have to return to your home country for at least six months. In other words, you need to spend more time in your home country than in the US. Though this is not an official rule but a conservative interpretation of the law.

 

It is a little bit unusual even with relaxed visa requirements for a young Chinese female to actually get a visitor's visa when she has a known relationship with a US citizen so it is somewhat unknown territory. My wife and I are facing this as we are questioning when to bring her father back over to help with child care. He was here for six months late last year and early this year and we are trying to delay him coming back as close to six months as possible to ensure another six month stay. Another Chinese couple of our acquaintance had her father here for six months, was gone only I believe about two months and was granted another six months stay. Again the main driver was child care. These are older Chinese which is the demographic that the eased Visa requirements have helped the most.

 

My guess is if she is here for six months, she likely would have a reasonable expectation of another six month stay if she went home 2-3 months. However, I wouldn't count on repeating that pattern. At that point, you would have dated for about 15-18 months and would need to make a decision on commitment. My guess is she will pressure you for a commitment before 18 months anyway.

[MikeandRong]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would second that guess too.

With you probably/hopefully being at work each day and her at home unable to work or drive, she would most likely be going stir crazy very quickly. All the newness and excitement can and will wear off pretty quickly. Without a ring on her finger to return back home with, I don't think you would have to worry about her coming for a second trip, let alone even sticking it out for 6 months on the first trip.

Read and study all that you can about the process here (immigration options) so that you understand it and can answer all of her questions honestly, as she will no doubt pepper you with them.

Best of luck to you both.

 

Edited September 9, 2015 by MikeandRong (see edit history)