Supreme Court Considers Visa Case For Foreign Spouses

[Beachey]

Heard this on NPR driving home from work. Sounds like there may be 5 votes for more transparency.

 

http://www.npr.org/2015/02/23/388520550/supreme-court-considers-visa-case-for-foreign-spouses?utm_medium=RSS&utm_campaign=us

 

The governments argument largely tries to place the blame on the Department of Homeland Security.

[Doug]

Well thank goodness there is a little ACTION going on about this. I'm not ready to cheer at this point and will probably be disappointed with the decision. We'll see.

 

Go hear and on Feb 23, 2015, click on Kerry, Sec of State vs Din: Lower court decision on left and transcript on right, all in Adobe format.

http://www.supremecourt.gov/

 

 

If you care to write the court about the case, here is their contact page. Of course I don't know if it will be read, but I see no reason why some noise can't be made.

http://www.supremecourt.gov/contact/contactus.aspx

Edited February 24, 2015 by Doug (see edit history)

[Randy W]

Justice Stephen Breyer, whose own wife immigrated to the U.S. from England, was incredulous.

 

Are you saying, he asked, that even if there is undeniable proof that the consular official acted for racial reasons, or simply because they felt that husbands and wives should not live together, there is no review?

 

"Is that your position?" Breyer asked.

 

Yes, replied Kneedler once again.

 

 

 

It IS incredulous that they can do this to legitimately bonafide married couples with no repercussions or corrective action possible.

[credzba]

The issue, or excuse, is US laws do not apply to non-US citizens.

However people who are not US citizens, but that come to USA illegally do enjoy the benefits of health care and education.

It seems that certain fundamental things like health, education, and family have been shown to apply beyond US citizenship.

 

Perhaps, the judges will consider immigration denials in context of these other areas of the law.

[Greg.D.]

The issue, or excuse, is US laws do not apply to non-US citizens.

However people who are not US citizens, but that come to USA illegally do enjoy the benefits of health care and education.

It seems that certain fundamental things like health, education, and family have been shown to apply beyond US citizenship.

 

Perhaps, the judges will consider immigration denials in context of these other areas of the law.

I have begun reading the SC transcript. It is a Great Read. It will take some time.

 

No, I don't think it is about privileges extended to people who enter illegally, but it is pretty exciting and is going after consular non-reviewability. Thanks to Beachey the OP. If the court rules in favor of the "respondent" (the denied) it could be a real game changer.

[credzba]

Motivated by your comment I read the transcript.

It IS debating the rights of the foreign person, and I can see both sides of the discussion.

 

However, something I read repeatedly, and I think is interesting.

IF the foreign person had been IN the United States, they could not have denied the visa without providing a reason.

This whole basis of location is frustrating to me. A person has a different set of right depending on whether they are or are not physically located in US.

[Doug]

Motivated by your comment I read the transcript.

It IS debating the rights of the foreign person, and I can see both sides of the discussion.

 

However, something I read repeatedly, and I think is interesting.

IF the foreign person had been IN the United States, they could not have denied the visa without providing a reason.

This whole basis of location is frustrating to me. A person has a different set of right depending on whether they are or are not physically located in US.

PS: I don't think this case will make it. There are security issues here, compared to most countries. BUT great if it does win.

 

This has strongly been on my mind. We are separated from our families by law: no visitor visa while waiting for family visa. YET, those in this country illegally can remain with their families while becoming legal, they will NOT be deported. HIS IS A GREAT INJUSTICE to us US Citizens following the law. So, I have been thinking of just how a class action suite can be made over this double standard. GIVE us a visitor visa while we wait for a green card like the illegals, AT LEAST!

 

I would be so surprised if the ACLU would take up our cause.

 

I want to take up this cause somehow, after my wife is HERE. I don't need backlash at this time.

Edited March 9, 2015 by Doug (see edit history)

[Guest SloppyZhou_]

You can read the Amicus Briefs here.

 

http://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/cases/kerry-v-din/

 

There are hundreds of pages from both sides of the court arguments. The theme in this case, and all those cases that precede it, is that US courts are very unlikely to ever release any information about why they ruled the way they did, much less provide any evidence that compelled them. US immigration always plays the national security card in court. They always tell the court that they do not want US enemies to learn how they adjudicate immigration as that information will enable undesirable folks to learn how to circumvent the process. It appears they are not paying attention to the southern border. We are the only nation on earth that puts so much power into the hands of one human being; that person being the conoff.

Edited March 9, 2015 by SloppyZhou_ (see edit history)

[tsap seui]

A bit painful to read this shit....after years of waiting on an unjust and uncalled for denial (that we will never know what the reason was, AND apparently the reason was so lame that the USCIS, upon reading it, instead of sending me the charges and giving me the chance for rebuttal, after only 3 days in their office they reaffirmed our case and sent it right back to the bozos who play God in Guangzhou. Attorney MArc Ellis said he had never seen a case where the reason and rebuttal letter got sent to the applicant...just a 3 day turn around and reaffirmation from USCIS.

 

I've written reams of words on this, no need to write more now, they DID IT, it is done. Like I always said, the assholes in the State Department in Guano, China do what they want to and they always hide behind the two most terroristic words ever thought up, published, and used as policy.....HOMELAND SECURITY.

 

I've seen the underbelly of America twice now....once in SE Asia, and again with the American State Department. We put out the propaganda about how fair and free our people are in America, and Uncle Sammy's crooked finger is quick to point at other countries. The reality is.....we are no better. As I used to say during the "wait"....I like China's form of communism, at least it is open and honest. LOL Now tryin' to hide the truth for them.

 

You can send all of the letters you want....I've been there, done that, got the ragged T-shirt. If they answer you, they will answer your question A with some slimey Answer B (they can't and won't answer your direct question....must be more Homeland Security issues for them). They never answered my direct easy to understand questions, only answered as if I had asked another question that fits their form letter answer sheet....this was with both the State Department, and US Customs (a Department of (you guessed it HOMELAND SECURITY) when they pulled me out of line at the customs desk upon returning from one trip to China, in the Newark airport. They detained me for an hour and a half, wanting to know why I was making so many trips to China. The Barney Fife agent tossed my luggage, and read every paper in my briefcase...my bank book registry, and every sheet of over 200 pages of evidence and immigration forms on our case that we had been working on. Without ever raising my voice or even asking Barney Fife why I was detained I was yelled loudly at and treated as a criminal for an hour and a half. Just like dealing with the State Department, we were guilty until we could prove our innocence....only the "commies" (Barney Fife included) don't give you the chance to prove your innocence. LOL My letter to some office in Arlington, Va answered my complaint as if I had asked a TSA question. I could only hope I had been accosted by a TSA agent...LOL...not dear ol' der Homeland Securitywaffen.

 

Good luck to those of you in the "wait"....it does end. Most folks get the short easy visa stamp in their passport, if you are one of the "chosen" and find yourself in dire straits for no good reason, just keep your pecker up, fight them, the bastards will tire, and go chase other innocent people. Please don't pop your corks if the underbelly of America grabs you and forces you to eat a bite of a "reality sammich". I can only wish I never got to see the underbelly of this great country. And never heard those two terroristic words....Homeland Security.

 

tsap seui

[Guest SloppyZhou_]

....when they pulled me out of line at the customs desk upon returning from one trip to China, in the Newark airport. They detained me for an hour and a half, wanting to know why I was making so many trips to China. The Barney Fife agent tossed my luggage, and read every paper in my briefcase...my bank book registry, and every sheet of over 200 pages of evidence and immigration forms on our case that we had been working on.

 

Without ever raising my voice or even asking Barney Fife why I was detained I was yelled loudly at and treated as a criminal for an hour and a half. Just like dealing with the State Department, we're guilty until we could prove our innocence....only the "commies" (Barney Fife included) don't give you the chance to prove your innocence. LOL My letter to some office in Arlington, Va answered my complaint as if I had asked a TSA question. I could only hope I had been accosted by a TSA agent...LOL...not dear ol' der Homeland Securitywaffen.

 

 

You shoulda just said, "Look dude, you obviously have a little dick, and though my dick is more substantial than yours, it still isn't long enough to reach my wife in China from my home in the US." You're a helluva lot more patient with them than I would have been. I will cooperate with their activity, but I would never do more than provide a simple answer to their questions. In your case, you traveled so many times because your wife lives in China. I would never stop asking them, "Am I free to go? Am I being detained?

 

When I returned from my last trip to China, I was asked the reason for my trip to China. I answered: "Because I bought a round trip ticket." He asked the purpose of my visit, and I repeated my answer: "Because I had already paid for a round trip ticket." He was obviously annoyed with me, but let me pass anyway. I would not recommend this to anyone, but I was really tired and not about to give border folk any more information about my life since they continue to hold me and my family hostage and i don't negotiate with hostage takers.

Edited March 9, 2015 by SloppyZhou_ (see edit history)

[Doug]

You can read the Amicus Briefs here.

 

http://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/cases/kerry-v-din/

 

There are hundreds of pages from both sides of the court arguments. The theme in this case, and all those cases that precede it, is that US courts are very unlikely to ever release any information about why they ruled the way they did, much less provide any evidence that compelled them. US immigration always plays the national security card in court. They always tell the court that they do not want US enemies to learn how they adjudicate immigration as that information will enable undesirable folks to learn how to circumvent the process. It appears they are not paying attention to the southern border. We are the only nation on earth that puts so much power into the hands of one human being; that person being the conoff.

EXACTLY, the prevention of deportation, and the allowance of illegal aliens to stay with their family in the USA, while the process takes place is the basis of my biggest argument. Heck, the door isn't even officially open yet for them to immigrate. Now just how this can make enough noise I am not sure yet. Boy how I wish I was retired. I would make this my job, to make a lot of noise and pursue every avenue.

 

Illegal aliens have more rights than I do, or that my wife has. Taking everything into account promotes more illegal entry. I am sure there is a cash underground for Chinese workers in the USA, if the spouse wanted to work.

 

I have yet to receive a response from any of my representatives on this issue, and in fact a little scowl from my lady House Rep when asked some of these questions back in 2006-7 time frame my first go-round.

 

Wow, Tsap, I will take better care on my trips to China. I don't poses any great secrets, but I have to be careful of ITAR drawings and emails. If I had been you and left some something in my bag, I might have got in a little trouble.

[Guest SloppyZhou_]

 

You can read the Amicus Briefs here.

 

http://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/cases/kerry-v-din/

 

There are hundreds of pages from both sides of the court arguments. The theme in this case, and all those cases that precede it, is that US courts are very unlikely to ever release any information about why they ruled the way they did, much less provide any evidence that compelled them. US immigration always plays the national security card in court. They always tell the court that they do not want US enemies to learn how they adjudicate immigration as that information will enable undesirable folks to learn how to circumvent the process. It appears they are not paying attention to the southern border. We are the only nation on earth that puts so much power into the hands of one human being; that person being the conoff.

EXACTLY, the prevention of deportation, and the allowance of illegal aliens to stay with their family in the USA, while the process takes place is the basis of my biggest argument. Heck, the door isn't even officially open yet for them to immigrate. Now just how this can make enough noise I am not sure yet. Boy how I wish I was retired. I would make this my job, to make a lot of noise and pursue every avenue.

 

Illegal aliens have more rights than I do, or that my wife has. Taking everything into account promotes more illegal entry. I am sure there is a cash underground for Chinese workers in the USA, if the spouse wanted to work.

 

I have yet to receive a response from any of my representatives on this issue, and in fact a little scowl from my lady House Rep when asked some of these questions back in 2006-7 time frame my first go-round.

 

Wow, Tsap, I will take better care on my trips to China. I don't poses any great secrets, but I have to be careful of ITAR drawings and emails. If I had been you and left some something in my bag, I might have got in a little trouble.

 

 

Because I lost my job a couple of weeks ago, I have more time on my hands. But, that is not a blessing at all as the entire reason I'm in the US in the first place is so that my wife and family can emigrate to the US from China. I've done my best to look at the US immigration system from all sides for several years. I see a system that is excused by career politicians as being broken. Yet, 95% of those politicians are unwilling to take the plunge to enforce the laws currently on the books, close the open doors, and search for and deport anyone in the US illegally. Anyone making those choices known in politics may as well kiss their political career goodbye.

 

In truth, the people of America could care less about the American citizens who take the legal path to immigration. It's just not interesting to them. What is interesting are twisted reality shows for K1 visas, and writing stories and creating video of our overwhelmed borders with mothers and children, and overloaded trains, and scads of people sneaking in. Now those are the stories getting covered.

 

When was the last time you heard a politician specifically state the unfairness of allowing some countries to get to the front of the immigration line only because they claim they are politically persecuted, or were affected by some long ago natural disaster? In truth, some folks are and were affected. But, if they were they need to prove it. For now, they only need select a checkbox on a form.

 

The SCOTUS doesn't care about legal immigration. The prez surely doesn't, and the majority of Americans don't care either. When the topic is brought up, the movie in their mind is thinking of the influx of folks across our southern borders. So, legal immigration is not a priority, and I don't believe it ever will be.

 

The only person I know who made a valiant effort to bring the immigration problem of America to the light of day was Dennis Michael Lynch. He produced a couple of awesome videos and appeared on several news shows. But, like anyone else who draws attention to illegal immigration and how it affects legal immigration, they will be marginalized as extremist.

 

If there is a way out of the madness, I have not heard it, and I've been looking hard.

Edited March 9, 2015 by SloppyZhou_ (see edit history)

[Doug]

Well sure, I understand all that. I just have little time other than this insane job I have. If I am not working, like right now, I need to be. I'm covering for 3 men out, besides my own area. If I could put this much effort into the thing.... well I would like to is all. Nothing like fighting city hall for 25 years...

 

Being so lax, my angle is to allow visitation by those seeking immigration. Both work until they get the immigration visa, usually. The USC runs out of vacation time. The Chinese spouse has more holidays and usually easier to get off work anyway, it seems to me. They are FAMILY, and this is the BIG excuse in the media, to not separate families. I simply want to see some allowance, for being a visitor. That same person, your spouse, can get a visitor visa right up until they marry you, if job, property owner, child at home, & etc.

[warpedbored]

Jesse pretty much hit the nail on the head. When I first got involved in the immigration process I was gung ho to fight for change. 13 years later not much has changed nor do I see any significant change on the horizon. You might as well knuckle down and do what it takes to get your sweet heart here.

[Guest SloppyZhou_]

Jesse pretty much hit the nail on the head. When I first got involved in the immigration process I was gung ho to fight for change. 13 years later not much has changed nor do I see any significant change on the horizon. You might as well knuckle down and do what it takes to get your sweet heart here.

 

Zhesse who?

 

I think there are many who reject the notion of corruption and complacence in the US government system. I struggle with that notion every day. One of the more difficult aspects of the system is watching good people who are openly subjected to emotional torture from their own country. There are so many victims who are unjustly separated from their partners and spouses, for months, and years, and worse are those who have been unjustly barred from ever coming to the USA due to a technicality. Petitioners and beneficiaries are rarely provided the option of presenting their case. They are expected to accept their lumps, and wait and endure. They must always be ready to jump to attention when called upon, and to go quietly to sleep when they are told to do so. Deviating from this unwritten protocol may cause even more difficulty.

 

It's now 2015 and there are thousands of USC who are victims of paperwork errors and power-mad consular officials who deny visas and start the torture mill. While there are problems at the USCIS level, it's the USCIS who is more the friend to the immigrant family. It's the consulates where most of the problems lay. How can it possibly be allowed to tell a couple their paperwork is in administrative processing or returned to USCIS, and then remain there for months, years, or forever without a peep of why. The couple has no due process; no opportunity to present their case, and surely no explanation as to what they see as a problem.

 

Being openly vocal about immigration in todays' world may invite violent hostility from open border people. Naturally those of us who take the legal path of immigration are diametrically opposed to those who spit in our faces. It's important to know your congressman, and senators and even more important to know their stance in legal and illegal immigration. For those who live in a district where the congressman supports amnesty or open borders, then you should consider finding another who does not; even if that means going to another state.

 

Write about what happens, document all encounters and communication with immigration with dates and times, and names. Keep it, and archive it. I believe there will come a time when the ears of America will be more receptive to the open torture of Americans and their families.

Edited March 10, 2015 by SloppyZhou_ (see edit history)