Can someone tell me the ups and downs on a couple things?

[Beachey]

 

Truth is I don't see Americans jumping up and down saying "pick me! pick me!" to work in the fields. We do need a guest worker program. Those guest workers also need protection to keep them from being abused. Something they definitely aren't getting now.

Agree, but it doesn't take 13 million of them. I know you know. Young people used to have to go do all kinds of unpleasant jobs. I did.

 

 

 

But it goes beyond paying more in the grocery store.

 

Around here, it is next to impossible to find a non-Mexican gardener. And granted you can do your own gardening but when you are working 50 to 60 hours a week, it is nice to not have to do it in your limited spare time. And if a legal immigrant is trying to run his own business why shouldn't I be able to support that?

 

Generally, you just don't ask. And generally you deal with one guy who has a couple guys helping him. Is it enough to ask the lead guy if he is legal? What is my obligation to ask his helpers? And they may end up doing the work when I am at work. How far do I need to check before I let someone on my property? Like I said it is not that simple.

[credzba]

 

 

Truth is I don't see Americans jumping up and down saying "pick me! pick me!" to work in the fields. We do need a guest worker program. Those guest workers also need protection to keep them from being abused. Something they definitely aren't getting now.

Agree, but it doesn't take 13 million of them. I know you know. Young people used to have to go do all kinds of unpleasant jobs. I did.

 

 

 

But it goes beyond paying more in the grocery store.

 

Around here, it is next to impossible to find a non-Mexican gardener. And granted you can do your own gardening but when you are working 50 to 60 hours a week, it is nice to not have to do it in your limited spare time. And if a legal immigrant is trying to run his own business why shouldn't I be able to support that?

 

Generally, you just don't ask. And generally you deal with one guy who has a couple guys helping him. Is it enough to ask the lead guy if he is legal? What is my obligation to ask his helpers? And they may end up doing the work when I am at work. How far do I need to check before I let someone on my property? Like I said it is not that simple.

 

In my mind, your making this too complicated.

Before you hand someone money, you must ensure they are legal to be paid in America.

All the rest of their workers legal status is not your concern.

 

And, your asking this as a 1 person to 1 person interaction, and I do not believe that is the situation providing the greatest percentage of employment. Restaurants, massage, farm, .. these registered businesses provide many more opportunities for illegal workers, and do it on purpose for the benefit of the company.

 

An easy solution to both the small and large business is to make the laws severe, as suggested, but provide immunity from prosecution if you pay direct through bank payment.

You see, then the banks can track who is getting paid, and opening an account to receive payment can be controlled to citizens only.

The name, and account to be paid would have to match (as is true today), so all you have to do as a conscientious citizen is know who your paying, and what their pay account is.

 

Certainly there are ways around this "Oh, I am Joe, but my bank account is under "Prez Obama", but willfully paying the wrong person removes your immunity.

You can still pay cash, but it removes your immunity.

 

 

 

It is the law, and just like speeding, you may not always get caught, but you are breaking the law.

Edited February 24, 2015 by credzba (see edit history)

[wawster]

Well, this thread has taken a number of turns!

 

From wondering about alternative immigration to who to pay!

Lively interaction, and all good stuff.

I must say I appreciate the participation and the viewpoints of all.

 

And I must apologize if I touched a nerve or two in the process. That wasn't my intent, but it seems that there's a lot of folks here that share my frustrations, and a lot of folks that have put some good thought into possible solutions. I like the level of thought that I've seen here. But please don't let this noob inadvertently spin folks up, ok?

 

As it stands, I'm (im)patiently waiting for my turn in line at the USCIS...to get in the line at the NVC...to get in line at the Consulate. I know it's the best route, and the one fraught with the least amount of risk and possible angst later on down the road. And I know that a lot of you have gone this route as well. Some were able to do a DCF due to living in China, but others are/were like me, and had to take the longer road. Hopefully that road won't be too long after all. But either way, the benefits of being with my honey are there, and will be within reach at some point.

 

I just gotta maintain a level of patience along the path.

 

Thanks for all the viewpoints, guys!

 

Warren

[warpedbored]

We've all been there Warren. My own case took over a year to get my wife here as well as overcoming a blue slip and taking an emergency trip to China to straighten it out. I was bitter against GZ for years because of the hoops we had to jump through. Now we're an old married couple going on 11 years. You will most likely get your sweet heart's visa and one day it will be ancient history. Meanwhile we're here to guide you along and lend an understanding ear. Pull up a chair, grab a bag of Cheetos and endure the ride. CFL makes it a little easier.

[wawster]

Sounds like a plan!

Got the chair, Got the Cheetos.

And thanks for the ear!

It's good to know we're not alone in this!

[tsap seui]

Warren, Carl is exactly right. When I started researching making an application the first thing I remember reading was that it usually took 12 to 13 months (if you filed from the states) to get to the interview. That was back in 2006 but things haven't changed much no matter the changes the clowns make supposedly for the better. They still manage to screw things up so that shortcuts become long waits.

 

Hang in there, plan on 12 or 13 months and go see your woman as often as possible. It can be a great experience traveling to China to be with your woman, I never did much traveling to see any sights in China, as my woman was who and what I wanted to see, to get to know each other as well as possible. I had a great time on the 4 trips to include being there for the interview that I made on our K-1 application. Things went nuts for us after that first interview but we never let it get us down as a couple.

 

You aren't alone here on Candle, everyone has endured a wait....some....jest a little longer than the 12 to 13 months...LOL

 

You will get your woman over here, keep the spring in your step for jumping through the hoops, and don't sweat the wait. Sweatin' only makes you smell bad.

 

tsap seui

[Doug]

 

 

 

Truth is I don't see Americans jumping up and down saying "pick me! pick me!" to work in the fields. We do need a guest worker program. Those guest workers also need protection to keep them from being abused. Something they definitely aren't getting now.

Agree, but it doesn't take 13 million of them. I know you know. Young people used to have to go do all kinds of unpleasant jobs. I did.

 

 

 

But it goes beyond paying more in the grocery store.

 

Around here, it is next to impossible to find a non-Mexican gardener. And granted you can do your own gardening but when you are working 50 to 60 hours a week, it is nice to not have to do it in your limited spare time. And if a legal immigrant is trying to run his own business why shouldn't I be able to support that?

 

Generally, you just don't ask. And generally you deal with one guy who has a couple guys helping him. Is it enough to ask the lead guy if he is legal? What is my obligation to ask his helpers? And they may end up doing the work when I am at work. How far do I need to check before I let someone on my property? Like I said it is not that simple.

 

In my mind, your making this too complicated.

Before you hand someone money, you must ensure they are legal to be paid in America.

All the rest of their workers legal status is not your concern.

 

And, your asking this as a 1 person to 1 person interaction, and I do not believe that is the situation providing the greatest percentage of employment. Restaurants, massage, farm, .. these registered businesses provide many more opportunities for illegal workers, and do it on purpose for the benefit of the company.

 

An easy solution to both the small and large business is to make the laws severe, as suggested, but provide immunity from prosecution if you pay direct through bank payment.

You see, then the banks can track who is getting paid, and opening an account to receive payment can be controlled to citizens only.

The name, and account to be paid would have to match (as is true today), so all you have to do as a conscientious citizen is know who your paying, and what their pay account is.

 

Certainly there are ways around this "Oh, I am Joe, but my bank account is under "Prez Obama", but willfully paying the wrong person removes your immunity.

You can still pay cash, but it removes your immunity.

 

 

 

It is the law, and just like speeding, you may not always get caught, but you are breaking the law.

It is like anything, if there is a void, someone will start up a business. Sure the prices might be higher, and or maybe the quality won't be as good, and I suspect the illegals gardening have undercut other profitable businesses. Make them legal and it is all OK by me. Competition is good, but illegals is kind of going in the direction of slave labor, in a way. If we work within the law, legal folks will compete, but yes maybe at a higher price for us the consumer.

 

I loved laying asphalt, but now, it is mostly Mexican or Gypsies. I don't speak Spanish and I won't be dishonest like the others.

[NUWORLD]

Warren, Carl is exactly right. When I started researching making an application the first thing I remember reading was that it usually took 12 to 13 months (if you filed from the states) to get to the interview. That was back in 2006 but things haven't changed much no matter the changes the clowns make supposedly for the better. They still manage to screw things up so that shortcuts become long waits.

 

Hang in there, plan on 12 or 13 months and go see your woman as often as possible. It can be a great experience traveling to China to be with your woman, I never did much traveling to see any sights in China, as my woman was who and what I wanted to see, to get to know each other as well as possible. I had a great time on the 4 trips to include being there for the interview that I made on our K-1 application. Things went nuts for us after that first interview but we never let it get us down as a couple.

 

You aren't alone here on Candle, everyone has endured a wait....some....jest a little longer than the 12 to 13 months...LOL

 

You will get your woman over here, keep the spring in your step for jumping through the hoops, and don't sweat the wait. Sweatin' only makes you smell bad.

 

tsap seui

 

 

Warren: There is some VERY! good advice given here in this thread and from some of the best veterans here on candle.

Carl,Ronnie,Doug and myself all have had issues with getting our love ones here to the states.

 

GZ is god and they pencil in the rules as they go from one day to the other.

There word is final!!

 

Now on the other hand? Yes years ago it took 12-14 months to get through this process.

Each and every case is different and from one day to the other changes, Why you may ask?

Good question.

 

Remember i said GZ is god, Just hang around here on candle and you will see and learn all the hoops that may need jumping through.

Talking about hoops! The man that jumped through the most has got to be Ronnie (tsap seui) he knows about hoops and the GZ gods.

 

I remember when i was just a newbie here on candle back in 2006 there where white and blue slips just a flying out of GZ.

Shit, I got a blue, Carl got a blue and tsap seui got the BIG ONE! white ( I can remember just like it was yesterday following his story) did he quit and give up?

 

Hell no: Improvise,Adapt and Overcome!

 

We all learn this on candle, If not for questions asked here, we would not learn the system.

 

Now 9 years later, I'm going down this visa road again.

 

Though for some reason my current case has only taken 9 months (Why? God only knows) from start to interview

 

Not for myself, But........I will update on Monday.

The old timers know my story here on candle.

 

Warren: The morel of this story is, just relax, ask questions as needed and as we say here on candle buy a lot of Cheetos.

 

Good luck my friend and welcome to Candle for Love.

 

One more thing: Everyone gets a visa in the end, No matter how long it takes.

Remember: Improvise,Adapt and Overcome! and you will win.

 

Mike

Edited February 26, 2015 by NUWORLD (see edit history)

[wawster]

Thanks Mike, Ronnie and all!

I've never been a "give up" kinda guy...just sits wrong with me somehow. So any curves thrown along the way will most likely bounce off my pointed noggin, (I'm not the best at dodging either!) but then I'll pick em up and use 'em for batting practice....

 

I hear ya about the GZ god, Mike, It's the part that makes me lose the most sleep. But I'm tailoring my thought process to see it as an iterative step...if the first pass fails, go to the next round.I'm hoping to be at that first pass mark by the end of the year.

 

And holy mother of pearl, Ronnie! I can learn a good lesson of patience from you, dude! I bow to your fortitude!

 

I can see this process is like most things in life...it's all about the attitude, stick-to-it-tive-ness, and making sure that you're as prepared as possible. And this place is loaded with the people, experience and information needed to be prepared. I have a plethora of questions...but I won't dilute this thread any further. I'll start new ones for the questions along the way,

 

It's been really cool to start getting to know you all!

Warren

[tsap seui]

Warren, you have a very good outlook on this process, and trust me buddy, there is no need to bow down to me...LOL

 

I knew we were just as deserving as anyone else to get the visa and I have this thing inside of me that no matter the odds when you are right, you never let the bastards win. Just after my wife was turned down that first time, I engaged the VA in what turned out to be another 5 year battle with the "powers to be" in our government. I'd be long hours researching immigration stuff, filing stuff, writing letters to congressmen, etc, etc, for the immigration war, then have to switch gears and research VA law, filing more evidence, making calls...getting "denied" by VA raters. It seemed overwhelming at times to be fighting two government entities, but I always knew my claims in both wars were Right. When the poop hits the fan, you can't turn the tail of your chopper into the wind and fly off to safety, you have to fly in against the odds and fight the fight to make good things happen. If there is another way, I don't want to know about it. God, I'd hate to be sitting on some dern sidelines...a loser in defeat. Defeat for lack of trying.

 

Warren, you ask your questions, do your research to make that initial application have every item of evidence you can muster, keep your goal always in calm focus, and let's hope you sail right through and don't have to reach deep down inside yourself to battle it out with Guangzhou, I hate to see people having trouble with their Gestapo squad...one of the reasons I've stuck around after we got the visa (to try and encourage others who find themselves up against the wall), that, and the good friends I've found on Candle.

 

You've got the winning spirit, man. I hope you set record time on getting the girl here. No matter what, she WILL get the visa.

 

Ronny

[Doug]

Just a side note.

I don't know your wife's age, but...

It looks like Guangzhou Consulate is looking at a certified birth certificate a bit harder. My wife's daughter has this certified kind of birth cert, but of my wife's age no one in China has this. We will be making our 3rd white book, supposedly starting tomorrow when my wife wakes up and starts. The other 2 white books, certified translations, were not good enough. The Chinese girl at the consulate told my wife to go back to the translator and tell them and they will know what to do. But the white man that did the actual interview did not request this in writing so we ignored the little Chinese girl. (bad call in hindsight) I have no idea exactly what this new type of certified translation of a certified birth certificate will look like, but when I do I will post. I don't recall this much headache over a birth certificate in China before. FYI.

[wawster]

Hey Doug,

Thanks for the heads up!

We have my wife's birth certificate white book also, but she's 42, so I'm thinking that her birth certificate isn't of the new style, whatever that may be. BUT...she just got the white book, so maybe it's ok. When you find out what has to be in there, please pass it on, ok?

I appreciate the FYI, man!

[Doug]

She says it has to do with showing that her parents are really her parents, according to white book maker. She has her brother tracking down something from her home town. A shame, she just got back from there from Chinese New Year. Anyway, when she gets this I will let you know and also if it is accepted later.

[Randy W]

She says it has to do with showing that her parents are really her parents, according to white book maker. She has her brother tracking down something from her home town. A shame, she just got back from there from Chinese New Year. Anyway, when she gets this I will let you know and also if it is accepted later.

 

 

yes, the law in China is that for births after approximately 1991, the (new format) certified birth certificate is issued. Prior to that time, our wives were ALL (with maybe the existence of an exception or two or three who would be UNDER that age of 24), no birth certificates were issued at the time of birth. Her Chinese ID and hukou shows that her birth WAS registered in accordance with the laws in effect at the time of her birth. By Chinese law, it is the white book that is issued to VERIFY that information for use overseas.

 

I suppose it may be possible for her and her parents to get the DNA testing or whatever is required for the new format - if so, that should take care of the issue for her. But it seems like the consulate is WAY over-reaching their authority on this one. Birth certificates are issued according to Chinese law, not consulary demands.

 

The requirements for the new-style certificates won't be easy for many to meet - in cases where one or more parents have passed on, or otherwise refuse to participate - as we've already seen.

 

How was she notified that the second submission was inadequate?

 

Also, if I remember correctly, your wife had some issues with where she was actually born. When was her birth first registered in a hukou, and when was her first Chinese ID issued?

Edited February 27, 2015 by Randy W (see edit history)

[Doug]

 

She says it has to do with showing that her parents are really her parents, according to white book maker. She has her brother tracking down something from her home town. A shame, she just got back from there from Chinese New Year. Anyway, when she gets this I will let you know and also if it is accepted later.

 

 

yes, the law in China is that for births after approximately 1991, the (new format) certified birth certificate is issued. Prior to that time, our wives were ALL (with maybe the existence of an exception or two or three who would be UNDER that age of 24), no birth certificates were issued at the time of birth. Her Chinese ID and hukou shows that her birth WAS registered in accordance with the laws in effect at the time of her birth. By Chinese law, it is the white book that is issued to VERIFY that information for use overseas.

 

I suppose it may be possible for her and her parents to get the DNA testing or whatever is required for the new format - if so, that should take care of the issue for her. But it seems like the consulate is WAY over-reaching their authority on this one. Birth certificates are issued according to Chinese law, not consulary demands.

 

The requirements for the new-style certificates won't be easy for many to meet - in cases where one or more parents have passed on, or otherwise refuse to participate - as we've already seen.

 

How was she notified that the second submission was inadequate?

 

Also, if I remember correctly, your wife had some issues with where she was actually born. When was her birth first registered in a hukou, and when was her first Chinese ID issued?

 

You can see the email they sent in my Preliminary Approval thread.