The Odyssey - Democracy in Hong Kong

[Randy W]

Things seem to be winding down a little bit this (Tuesday) morning

 

LIVE: CY Leung says Occupy protests will not change Beijing's mind; demonstrators swelter

 

11.55am: More designs are emerging for the 'Umbrella Revolution'. The wording is translated as 'bounce back'. To see our full gallery of designs click here...

The Umbrella Revolution continues with a new design

 

 

 

 

 

11.40am: According to the Hong Kong Monetary Authority, this morning a total of 37 branches of 21 banks are closed. This is compared with 44 branches of 23 banks yesterday.

11.10am: Things are heating up! It's going to be an uncomfortable day for many demonstrators, as temperatures climb. Hong Kong Observatory currently says it's 31.3C.

 

ot change Beijing's mind on electoral reform. Photo: Felix Wong

11am: The SCMP has otained from a police contact a message from the Commissioner of Police emailed to officers in the early hours of this morning, urging police to "stay united, remain resolute, and overcome this challenging situation together".

Here's the email in full:

Message from the Commissioner of Police During the recent unlawful assembly at the Central Government Complex and its vicinity, the enforcement actions taken by the Force have attracted some controversies. The senior management fully understand the difficulty of the task, and the complexity of this unprecedented operation. In this very trying situation, you have remained steadfast, demonstrated extreme patience and performed your duties in the most professional manner throughout the operation. Your unreserved efforts in serving the community in this critical moment are much appreciated by the senior management. I trust we will stay united, remain resolute, and overcome this challenging situation together. Thank you.

 

. . .

 

Leung also called on Hong Kong people not to believe in rumours that the People's Liberation Army or mainland police could be mobilised to help crackdown on the protests.

Meanwhile a protester on Connaught Road is warning others to be vigilant as numbers have dropped, reminding people the smaller group is more vulnerable to being cleared by police.

Edited September 30, 2014 by Randy W (see edit history)

[Randy W]

The premise of this article is more than a little silly - Shanghai "replacing" Hong Kong, when it's already losing tenants - but it does make a couple of good points in the last couple of paragraphs.

 

No, Shanghai Can't Replace Hong Kong

Those asking what's next for China's "one country, two systems" doctrine are pondering the wrong question. This pipedream, one that seduced Margaret Thatcher into returning Britain's former colony to Beijing, is unraveling before our eyes. China's decision to renege on its promise to let Hong Kong pick its own leader by 2017 comes as political frustrations rise in Macau as well. One can only imagine how darkly Taiwanese now view the prospect of the mainland's embrace.

 

No, the real question is where Xi is taking the world's most populous nation. Rather than adapt to international standards, China is becoming even more of a black box. Meanwhile, investors can only fret about runaway debt, a growing shadow-banking system and official corruption. Xi's policies smack more of fear than strength. In the long run, it's China that will pay the price for them.

 

 

 

. . . and some interesting thoughts from the "seductee" - Margaret Thatcher - are linked to from the Bloomberg article

 

My regrets over Hong Kong by Lady Thatcher

 

Speaking ahead of the 10th anniversary, Lady Thatcher admits to having doubts about the "one country, two systems" formula, where the Chinese government granted Hong Kong a high degree of economic and social autonomy. It also agreed to preserve its capitalist identity for 50 years.

 

Officially, the territory is now part of China, which is responsible for its defence and foreign affairs. The arrangement will be reviewed in 2047.

 

"One country, two systems was developed some years earlier as an approach to the issue of Taiwan," says Lady Thatcher. "It doesn't look any more appropriate in that context now than it did then. Nor did it at first seem to me the way ahead for Hong Kong."

 

 

It seems obvious that the Commies have their hands more than full between having to balance "social harmony", wanting to increase their international economic clout, and bring the people of Hong Kong and Taiwan under their wing.

[Randy W]

This morning, from Xinhua

 

HK protests challenge supreme power organ: People's Daily

For several days, some people have been staging protests in Hong Kong in the name of seeking the so-called "real universal suffrage."

 

They attempt to force the central authorities to change the decision made by the Standing Committee of the National People's Congress (NPC), China's top legislature, on Hong Kong's electoral system. Such actions blatantly violate the Basic Law of Hong Kong and the principle of rule of law, according to the opinion piece.

 

"There is no room to make concessions on issues of important principles," says the commentary on the flagship newspaper of the Communist Party of China.

 

The decision made on Aug. 31 granted universal suffrage in the selection of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region (HKSAR)'s chief executive on the basis of nomination by a "broadly representative" committee.

 

The decision possesses unchallengeable legal status and authority. It is "a certain choice and the only choice" to safeguard the decision, according to the commentary.

 

The NPC decision is in line with the "one country, two systems" policy and the Basic Law. It has fully heeded opinions from all walks of life in Hong Kong, it says.

 

The core purpose of instigators of illegal activities is to ensure that their representatives, including those in defiance of the central authorities, can become candidates of HKSAR's chief executives, the commentary says. "Such a demand is neither illegal nor reasonable."

 

As one of China's local administrative regions, Hong Kong is directly under the jurisdiction of the central government rather than a state or an independent political entity, the commentary says.

 

Once the public opinions were hijacked by a minor group, it would not be conducive to the implementation of "one country, two systems" policy, Hong Kong's long-term prosperity and stability as well as realization of universal suffrage, the commentary warns.

 

[Randy W]

One thing I hadn't realized is what is shown in this map. The two areas from the 1842 and 1860 Treaties (including Hong Kong Island) were OWNED (outright) by Great Britain. The lighter area of the New Territories is what fell under the 100 year lease. Great Britain simply agreed to return over the whole she-bang because it would have been impossible to sort-out otherwise.I don't know if they got anything in return for this concession, except for possibly the 'one country, two systems' promise.

 

Edited June 25, 2021 by Randy W (see edit history)

[Randy W]

From Wikipedia - http://en.wikipedia...._over_Hong_Kong

Quote

British concession

Governor Youde with nine members of the Hong Kong Executive Council travelled to London to discuss with Prime Minister Thatcher the crisis of confidence - the problem with morale among the people of Hong Kong arising from the ruination of the Sino-British talks. The session concluded with Thatcher's writing of a letter addressed to the PRC Premier Zhao Ziyang; in it, she expressed Britain's willingness to explore arrangements optimising the future prospects of Hong Kong while utilising the PRC's proposals as a foundation. Furthermore, and perhaps most significantly, she expressed Britain's concession on its position of a continued British presence in the form of an administration post-handover.

 

. . .

 

 

Just as the atmosphere of the talks was becoming cordial, members of the Legislative Council of Hong Kong felt impatient at the long-running secrecy over the progress of Sino-British talks on the Hong Kong issue. They held that the people of Hong Kong should have the right to know what was being discussed and to speak at the talks. A motion, tabled by legislator Roger Lobo, and declaring, "This Council deems it essential that any proposals for the future of Hong Kong should be debated in this Council before agreement is reached", was passed unanimously. The PRC attacked the motion furiously, referring to it as "somebody's attempt to play the three-legged stool trick again". At length, the PRC and Britain initiated the Joint Declaration on the question of Hong Kong's future in Beijing. Zhou Nan, the then PRC Deputy Foreign Minister and leader of the negotiation team, and Sir Richard Evans, British Ambassador to Beijing and leader of the team, signed respectively on behalf of the two governments.

 

. . .

 

In accordance with the One Country, Two Systems principle agreed between the United Kingdom and the People's Republic of China, the socialist system of People's Republic of China would not be practiced in the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region (HKSAR), and Hong Kong's previous capitalist system and its way of life would remain unchanged for a period of 50 years. The Joint Declaration provides that these basic policies shall be stipulated in the Hong Kong Basic Law.

 

The 'third leg' of the stool which the PRC attacked so 'furiously' was the inclusion of the people (and/or government) of Hong Kong.

 

According to Clauses 158 and 159 of the Basic Law, powers of interpretation and amendment of the Basic Law are vested in the Standing Committee of the National People's Congress and the National People's Congress, respectively. Hong Kong's people have limited influence.

 

Edited October 4, 2014 by Randy W (see edit history)

[Randy W]

From the South China Morning Post, a Hong Kong newspaper - Monday and Tuesday are official holidays in China (part of the National Day observation), but it's not clear if that schedule is followed in Hong Kong.

 

Hours to avoid tragedy, protesters told as thousands attend peace rally

 

 

Leung described as most "pressing" the need for 3,000 civil servants to be allowed back to work tomorrow morning and for protesters to clear the area outside the Tamar headquarters. Occupy leader Benny Tai responded that protesters would open a channel for civil servants to reach their offices.

 

Leung's video came as Xinhua reported that "cadres and masses across the country" supported the central government's policies towards Hong Kong and "resolutely oppose" the protests.

 

Democratic Party member and University of Hong Kong associate professor Dr Law Chi-kwong said in an email to protesters: "This is very likely my last email to all of you. When the students say no to talks, they have removed their last line of protection. Things can turn very drastic within the next couple of hours. I am begging everyone I know to leave, at least staying away from the West Gate of [the Tamar headquarters]. I believe no one in Hong Kong can stop what may happen in the next couple of hours. I beg with tears."

 

. . .

 

Pan-democrats also called for talks with the chief secretary. Civic Party leader Alan Leong Kah-kit said they did not trust the chief executive.

 

Democratic Party chairwoman Emily Lau Wai-hing said: "We welcome dialogue. However, it appears that people with [triad gang] 'backgrounds' are behind the incident."

 

Edited October 5, 2014 by Randy W (see edit history)

[danb]

On 10/4/2014 at 3:31 PM, Randy W said:

One thing I hadn't realized is what is shown in this map. The two areas from the 1842 and 1860 Treaties (including Hong Kong Island) were OWNED (outright) by Great Britain. The lighter area of the New Territories is what fell under the 100 year lease. Great Britain simply agreed to return over the whole she-bang because it would have been impossible to sort-out otherwise.I don't know if they got anything in return for this concession, except for possibly the 'one country, two systems' promise.

 

I don't know the history that well but if you ask me it was disgraceful what foreign powers( mostly westerns) did to China. Look at what the opium wars were all about. It probably goes a long ways to explain Chinese xeophobia like fears. I sympathize with the Hong Konger but I worry that they are playing with fire. I hope they can find a peaceful resolution to this situation. Danb

Edited June 25, 2021 by Randy W (see edit history)

[Mick]

Randy, when we lived in Guangdong, there were two Hong Kong TV stations on our cable system. Anytime a "sensitive" news item came on the local news, the item was displaced by a public service ad or just some peaceful music and pictures of a meadow with flowers. I wonder to what extent these demonstrations are being shown on Mainland TV. Do you get Hong Kong stations and if so, what do they show?

[tsap seui]

I don't know the history that well but if you ask me it was disgraceful what foreign powers( mostly westerns) did to China. Look at what the opium wars were all about. It probably goes a long ways to explain Chinese xeophobia like fears. I sympathize with the Hong Konger but I worry that they are playing with fire. I hope they can find a peaceful resolution to this situation. Danb

 

Great post Danb. I couldn't agree more. For centuries the Chinese have been "used", abused, and very highly exploited by mainly the west. And once again we are pointing our finger at them, and continuing the fear and hate mongering propaganda crap that I for one was taught in elementary school....to hate with a vengeance, despise, and never trust them and their ways...to hope for the day of their elimination. The derision goes on to this very day on the internet and elsewhere in our very own society.

 

I say let the Chinese be the Chinese. There are many changes the Chinese have made for and with their society, and if left alone they will make many more....in their own time, not ours. We have many recent examples of how our meddling in societies other than our own has shown how well "our plan" for others works. Yeah right, western arrogance has no bounds. If we had all the answers we wouldn't be broke, with an unraveling society.

 

tsap seui

[Randy W]

Randy, when we lived in Guangdong, there were two Hong Kong TV stations on our cable system. Anytime a "sensitive" news item came on the local news, the item was displaced by a public service ad or just some peaceful music and pictures of a meadow with flowers. I wonder to what extent these demonstrations are being shown on Mainland TV. Do you get Hong Kong stations and if so, what do they show?

 

 

Jiaying used to watch the Hong Kong news (ATV) as her favorite, even after she moved to the U.S. When we moved back to China, it had disappeared from the lineup, and hasn't been seen since. She's talked about getting satellite TV a couple of times, but never followed through on it.

 

I showed her pictures of the people in the street. At first she thought they were a LOT of vacationers for the National Holiday. I had some explaining to do to explain what was going on.

 

But it IS in the news more in the past few days (just saw it on CCTV-NEWS a few minutes ago) - just not in an exactly objective light.

Edited October 5, 2014 by Randy W (see edit history)

[Randy W]

An interesting (and probably fairly accurate) editorial in the SCMP

 

Hong Kong to pay for politics of tear gas and anarchy

Given increasing public opposition, the street protests will soon peter out, but the real tragedy is polarisation among Hongkongers

 

When you have grannies shouting at youngsters trying to occupy Chai Wan, the fight in Mong Kok between the protesters and their opponents is no accident. Given the increasing public hostility, the occupation will soon peter out.

 

This is a strategy of "man against man, neighbour against neighbour", as the Bible says. Call this a success or not, Hong Kong will pay dearly for it.

 

First, with the last drop of trust gone, there is zero chance that Beijing will allow a more democratic electoral committee for the future chief executive election as some moderates are hoping.

 

Secondly, no pan-democrat will dare to make any compromise. Try tell the youngsters, who have spent nights in the streets and will be eligible for the next election, to vote for a compromiser.

Settlement of the political system debate and therefore a pullback from the impasse is out of the question. What is sadder is the polarisation among Hongkongers increased by these clashes. Brothers and sisters quarrel on whatsapp. Long-time friends "unlike" each other on Facebook. Dim sum family gatherings turn silent to avoid the sensitive subject.

 

Hong Kong will never be the same.

 

[Randy W]

Another view from Xinhua

 

China has not gone back on HK agreements with UK: former Thatcher aide

 

"Hong Kong has very extensive autonomy, far greater than we believed actually could be achieved when the Hong Kong joint declaration with China was negotiated," Charles Powell, former private secretary to Thatcher during the 1980s, told British BBC Radio 4's The World This Weekend on Sunday.

 

"They have far better conditions, including political conditions than any other city in China, but the bottom line is -- they are a city in China," said Powell, who was a key foreign policy advisor to Thatcher when Britain agreed to return Hong Kong to China.

 

[Randy W]

Friday night (yesterday) in Hong Kong

 

in the Shanghaiist:

Joshua Wong is turning 18 on Monday, vows to spend it with Occupy Central protestors

 

Edited June 25, 2021 by Randy W (see edit history)

[Randy W]

Taiwan president Ma Ying-Jeou tells Beijing to embrace democracy

 

He also suggested in his speech that Taiwan would continue to guard its democracy and rule of law. Even for a rapidly developing economy like China, people would want more democracy and a greater rule of law as the country becomes more prosperous

 

“Such a desire has never been a monopoly of the West, but it is the right of all humankind."

 

[Randy W]

The protests up close - from the South China Morning Post

Clips from reporters at #OccupyCentral today as anti-protesters march & masked men reappear. Follow the latest on Occupy Central here: http://f.sc.mp/geagiRc

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=10152761132414820

OCCUPY CENTRAL - DAY 16: Full coverage of the day’s events

Edited June 25, 2021 by Randy W (see edit history)