Seventy Years of Bitterness.

[danb]

Here is link to a story about the changing relationship between China and Japan. I thought it is an interesting read:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25411700

 

I have heard of some of the brutal treatment that the Chinese suffered at the hands of the Japanese soldiers during the 1930's and the 1940's. In recently years I have heard about the blind slide that the Japanese are taught about those times. I also had heard that Mao did not tried to stir the mass against the Japanese when he was in power. But I never heard the rational behind. From this article it seem like both sides had fed different versions of the story to their people. Perhaps not so much for the sake of revealing the real truth as much for political gain at different times in history. I wonder when it will stop. Hopefully soon but I suspect it won't be soon enough. Danb

[Randy W]

There's a lot more to that story over the last century than just what's in the article. There's an excellent chapter on the subject in the book China: Fragile Superpower: How China's Internal Politics Could Derail Its Peaceful Rise by Susan L. Shirk.

 

It's a long and complex chapter - here are a couple of quick quotes from it. I'll try to get more together later on.

 

 

The Taiwan issue and the Japan issue are closely intertwined. Today's Chinese can't forgive Japan for dismembering China and ruling Taiwan as a colony until the end of World War II. Many older Taiwanese, including former president Lee Teng-hui, feel a close affinity to Japan and speak better Japanese than Mandarin, a fact that any Mainland Chinese taxi driver will tell you bitterly.

Susan L. Shirk. China: Fragile Superpower: How China's Internal Politics Could Derail Its Peaceful Rise (Kindle Locations 2076-2078). Kindle Edition.

 

 

As modern Chinese nationalism emerged in the early twentieth century, Japan was the "other" against which the Chinese people defined their identity. Following World War I, Japan (which had allied with Great Britain) issued the Chinese government the "Twenty-One Demands," claiming for itself the German concessions in China, including railroad and military garrison rights in Shandong Province. When the news reached Beijing that the Americans and Europeans had agreed to Japan's terms at the Versailles Peace Conference in 1919 and the Chinese representatives at the conference had caved in, mass demonstrations erupted in Beijing and throughout China. The May 4 movement, synonymous with modern Chinese nationalism, was born out of this anger against Japan.

Susan L. Shirk. China: Fragile Superpower: How China's Internal Politics Could Derail Its Peaceful Rise (Kindle Locations 2082-2086). Kindle Edition.

 

 

Mao Needed No Apology

In the earlier era of Mao Zedong (1949-1976), Chinese leaders had little need to mobilize popular sentiment against Japan. As the founder and dictatorial leader of the People's Republic, Mao had unchallenged authority on foreign policy matters. Mao Zedong and Premier Zhou Enlai, Mao's suave right-hand diplomat, promoted "peaceful, friendly relations" with Japan. As Chalmers Johnson notes, because Mao's and Zhou's "nationalistic credentials were unassailable [they] could on occasion ignore or deflect the nationalist issue when it suited their purposes to do so." Whenever Mao wanted to mobilize the public with an international threat, he used the United States or later, the Soviet Union, instead. "Everything was controlled by the top leaders. Good relations with Japan were a high-level political decision, the leaders had prestige, so the people followed them," one think-tank policy expert explained. It wasn't because they liked Japan, he added. In fact, the older generation hated Japan. "At a 1965 Japanese cultural exhibition in Beijing," he recalled, "when people came in and saw the Japanese flag, they fell to the floor in shock and dismay, they had such bad memories." In the 1950S Mao and Zhou promoted good relations with Japan for international strategic considerations, to try to balance against the United States by seducing its ally to China's side.

Susan L. Shirk. China: Fragile Superpower: How China's Internal Politics Could Derail Its Peaceful Rise (Kindle Locations 2140-2147). Kindle Edition.

 

[Doug]

2 trips to China ago, I was taken to a museum, new one, showing all the Japanese did to the Chinese people. It was in Jaingsu province, which of course is where the murders and rapes took place. Pretty graphic. I would have to ask what town I was in. (Not Nanjing)

Edited February 15, 2014 by Doug (see edit history)

[Randy W]

I pulled out a couple more quotes, but there is so much in the chapter that it's hardly worthwhile to try to summarize here. Get a copy if you're interested

 

On the occasion of diplomatic recognition in 1972, Mao and Zhou willingly forswore any Japanese reparations from World War II, reaffirming the commitment that Chiang Kai-shek, the leader of the Republican government, had made following the war. . . . As one Chinese scholar of relations with Japan said, neither Mao nor Zhou "thought it was necessary for Japan to apologize all the time."

. . .


Deng Xiaoping saw the relationship with Japan as crucial for his market-oriented economic reforms to succeed. Just months before he announced the reforms in December 1978, he visited Japan, making the first ever visit by a PRC leader.

. . .


In the 1970s and early 1980s, Japan had a positive image in China as an Asian economic and technological tiger worthy of emulation. . . . . A roomful of Sichuan officials sat glued to the television set at night watching a weeklong documentary about Japan's economic miracle. What clearly impressed the Chinese officials was how the Japanese, even in such a modern society, took care of their elderly parents and celebrated traditional rituals.

Susan L. Shirk. China: Fragile Superpower: How China's Internal Politics Could Derail Its Peaceful Rise (Kindle Locations 2165-2168). Kindle Edition.

 

[danb]

Randy, I am pretty sure that I read that book 3 or 4 years ago. I was interesting in just where China was going to be in 30 or 40 years from now. It was an interesting book. Some time in the book was spent talking about how keen the centeral government was interested in keeping the common man heading in the right direction (thinking wise). I am pretty sure the book said that the Japanese were sometimes/often used as diversionary tactics. Bashing the Japanese was a way to take the common man's thoughst about his own problems. I will have to see if I can dig that book out. It was interesting when the BBC article was discussing how the oversea Chinese sometimes viewed the Japanese differently than the main lander Chinese.

 

The Japanese military was very brutal when they occupied China. I wonder if they ever governed another territory today how they would do things, differently or would they do things the same as before. Are the Japanese people different that they were 80-90 years ago? Interesting question I think. Danb

[Randy W]

Randy, I am pretty sure that I read that book 3 or 4 years ago. I was interesting in just where China was going to be in 30 or 40 years from now. It was an interesting book. Some time in the book was spent talking about how keen the centeral government was interested in keeping the common man heading in the right direction (thinking wise). I am pretty sure the book said that the Japanese were sometimes/often used as diversionary tactics. Bashing the Japanese was a way to take the common man's thoughst about his own problems. I will have to see if I can dig that book out. It was interesting when the BBC article was discussing how the oversea Chinese sometimes viewed the Japanese differently than the main lander Chinese.

 

The Japanese military was very brutal when they occupied China. I wonder if they ever governed another territory today how they would do things, differently or would they do things the same as before. Are the Japanese people different that they were 80-90 years ago? Interesting question I think. Danb

 

 

Yes - they have a new edition coming out soon (mine is still the old one from 2008). Both editions cover the modern period, but the quotes I pulled were just from the Mao era, since that period was so different from what it is now.

Edited February 17, 2014 by Randy W (see edit history)

[danb]

When I was reading Susan Shrink's book. There was discussion about one of the concerns ( a major one) of the central government of keeping the Chinese people happy and content. A need to continue to keep their people happy. Last week there was an article on CNN that sorta pertains to this idea. Here is a link to that story.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/16/opinion/china-countryside-opinion-xie/index.html?iref=allsearch

 

Here is a portion from that article:

 

".......however, the Chinese government implemented a series of policies that actually impoverished and discriminated against farmers, the most important source of support for the Communist revolution.

One such policy is the "hukou" or household registration system, although last year the government proposed relaxing some of the restrictions that prevent rural migrants accessing the same benefits as urban residents.

Urbanization has been one of the driving forces of China's economic development, but it should not come at the expense of rural residents, who still account for just under half the Chinese population."

Too often the western press seems to take a negative view of China. On the other hand China's press may present a too "positive view of China's future." Me, I am the middle always trying to figure who to believe. I also hope that both China and The US prosper in this century. DanB

[Guest ExChinaExpat]

When I was reading Susan Shrink's book. There was discussion about one of the concerns ( a major one) of the central government of keeping the Chinese people happy and content. A need to continue to keep their people happy. Last week there was an article on CNN that sorta pertains to this idea. Here is a link to that story.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/16/opinion/china-countryside-opinion-xie/index.html?iref=allsearch

 

Here is a portion from that article:

 

".......however, the Chinese government implemented a series of policies that actually impoverished and discriminated against farmers, the most important source of support for the Communist revolution.

One such policy is the "hukou" or household registration system, although last year the government proposed relaxing some of the restrictions that prevent rural migrants accessing the same benefits as urban residents.

Urbanization has been one of the driving forces of China's economic development, but it should not come at the expense of rural residents, who still account for just under half the Chinese population."

Too often the western press seems to take a negative view of China. On the other hand China's press may present a too "positive view of China's future." Me, I am the middle always trying to figure who to believe. I also hope that both China and The US prosper in this century. DanB

 

After you turn down the volume of the government, press, and social experts it becomes a little easier to hear what Chinese people have to say for themselves.

[danb]

The title of Susan L. Shirk"s . China: Fragile Superpower: How China's Internal Politics Could Derail Its Peaceful Rise title in part suggest that China may not be a slam dunk to being and staying a superpower. She has problems to content with. She has risen again, but continuing to rise to the top and and staying is not as simple as some may think. I guess there are many parts to that puzzle. I wish I understood it better. I have read a little on the subject and I often read stories on China that I find on BBC, CNN and MSN. Not sure if they are the best source but it is the ones that I have easy access to. I recently read an article about sustaining China's economy growth. I tried to find it again but couldn't find it. I did find a similar article. Here is a link to it:

 

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-02-17/china-digs-itself-deeper-into-dollar-trap.html

 

The article talks a little about how the economy of the US and China are interwoven. An interesting comment that the article made was:

 

"Imagine the conspiracy theories that would consume a Chinese blogosphere already primed to see American treachery everywhere. Did you know that the White House wants a war between Beijing and Tokyo to slow China's rise? Or that the Fed is depressing the price of gold to stop it from displacing the dollar as a haven? Or that the SARS virus was unleashed by the U.S. military to subjugate Asia? Such conjecture is all over Chinese cyberspace. Online, people seem to believe just about anything that doesn't end with "LOL!"

Although the Communist Party wields great power over the masses, it remains extraordinarily sensitive to spikes in public outrage. Those worries are increasing amid tepid global growth, as Chinese leaders struggle to keep their own economy expanding at more than 7 percent. "

In Susan Shrink's book she talks about this need of the Chinese government to listen to what it's people are thinking. If they don't, will the government be able to continue to stay in power? I think she implies that the government does listen and also tries to control the general direction of what the people are thinking. Is that something believable? I guess all governments could put on or support their own spin on what has happen in the past to support their own ideas and programs. That spin may be the truth. Or it may be slight skew or at least painted in a way that help support their platform. Who knows for sure. Danb

[Randy W]

China ratifies national days to commemorate war victory, massacre victims

September 3 will mark Victory Day and December 13 will be the national memorial day for massacre victims. The decision was made by the Standing Committee of the National People’s Congress. The committee says this is to remember the harm caused to the Chinese people, convey China’s stance against aggression, safeguard human dignity and preserve world peace.

 

China’s Defense Ministry says there have always been forces in Japan who want to reverse historical judgments and challenge the post-war order. China urges Japan to reflect on its actions and face up to history.

 

“The reason we remember history is not for hatred. The World War II is in the past and history has already made verdict on Japan’s wartime aggression. So why do some people in Japan still want to overturn that historical verdict, and still visit the Yasukuni shrine, offering sacrifices to class A war criminals. We urge Japan to face up to and reflect on its post-war responsibility, and to earn the trust of its Asian neighbors and the international community through concrete actions, instead of making irresponsible remarks about normal commemorations in countries that were victims of war,” said Yang Yujun, spokesman of Chinese Ministry of National Defense.