Third Plenum , 18th session

[Guest ExChinaExpat]

There may be more to come than is readily apparent, "Chinese characteristics" being what they are - then again, maybe not.

 

I think it's more likely that nothing will happen and nothing will be done. Note the Wall Street Journal headline from the article you posted:

 

 

 

Asian stocks moved lower after China’s leaders failed to provide a clear direction on policy over the coming decade, while the Nikkei’s strong upward streak in the last two sessions came to a halt.

 

As usual, a lot of rhetoric with no meat.

[Randy W]

Yes, the stock market and Wall Street Journal are disappointed, but that rhetoric (from the Plenum) is often handed down and taken seriously. There are several articles linked to at the bottom of the Xinhua link that might provide more insight. I'm like you, though, and don't especially care to wade through very much of that.

 

The Chinese stock markets are continuing their downward trend today, except for Shenzhen..

 

Only time will tell in the next five years - not us.

[Randy W]

Here's one indication that you may be right, Jesse.

Plenum Insight: Conclave 'Didn't Change Status of SOEs'

 

The plenum did nothing to change the status of SOEs in the economy, which will disappoint some, Guan Qingyou, assistant dean of the Minsheng Securities Research Institute, said in the securities firm's teleconference.

 

. . .

 

The communiqué states that the government will consolidate and develop state and collective ownership in the economy, and help it maintain a dominant role. The state-owned aspect of the economy will continue playing a leading role and its influence will be reinforced.

 

As for the part of the economy not held by the state or collectively owned – which would include family businesses, private companies and foreign-funded companies – the government will "encourage, support and guide" its development, and "inspire its vitality and creativity."

 

This is hardly any different than what the party has always said, Guan said.

 

[tsap seui]

As Blood, Sweat, and Tears so aptly sang...."What goes up, must come down....spinnin' wheel, got to go round"

 

Such is life

[Guest ExChinaExpat]

Despite China's attempts to control the flow of information, it's becoming more and more difficult to feed their people shit while telling them it's duck sauce. Ai Weiwei explains the reason why in this video:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtDTPZX8IRQ

[Randy W]

Despite China's attempts to control the flow of information, it's becoming more and more difficult to feed their people shit while telling them it's duck sauce. Ai Weiwei explains the reason why in this video:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtDTPZX8IRQ

 

But at the same time, the Internet provides a convenient sandbox for everybody to play in - one which can be monitored, controlled, steered and bumped in the "right" direction. They can (and do) very easily allow "freedom of speech" to run its course, and then simply delete it, impersonate it, or steer it where they want it to go. All the while, gaining many brownie points for the "new freedom".

 

In my own opinion, the Internet, along with the Wiebo's and other social media, was the greatest gift ever handed the Chinese censors.

 

All they really need to do is refine their recipe for the duck sauce.

[Guest ExChinaExpat]

 

Despite China's attempts to control the flow of information, it's becoming more and more difficult to feed their people shit while telling them it's duck sauce. Ai Weiwei explains the reason why in this video:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtDTPZX8IRQ

 

But at the same time, the Internet provides a convenient sandbox for everybody to play in - one which can be monitored, controlled, steered and bumped in the "right" direction. They can (and do) very easily allow "freedom of speech" to run its course, and then simply delete it, impersonate it, or steer it where they want it to go. All the while, gaining many brownie points for the "new freedom".

 

In my own opinion, the Internet, along with the Wiebo's and other social media, was the greatest gift ever handed the Chinese censors.

 

All they really need to do is refine their recipe for the duck sauce.

 

 

You're right in the sense that the Internet allows the China government/censors to track and suppress whatever they choose. But, it also gives the people of China a place to express and organize dissent, which is happening a lot. It's pissing the China government off too, as they have enacted new laws to suppress dissent in the name of what they call rumor control. It remains to be seen, but I don't think the Chinese government has the hold on its people that it thinks it has.

[warpedbored]

 

I had heard that China had a great famine during the 60"s. I didn't know what the root of it was. So was it cause by planting the seeds too deeply? Interesting but I had never heard that one before. I do know that food is considered a very important aspect of China culture and life, past and even present. I wonder what China will do if too many people migrate to the urban centers. Who will the produce the food to feed China? If the rice and wheat production greatly decrease in China then I would think that the China could greatly influence the prices of those produces on the world market. Danb

 

There were actually two famines in the 60's, one occurred just prior to the start of the 60's (1958) called the Great Famine (as part of the Great Leap Forward) and the other started in 1966 with the Cultural Revolution. Many don't count the latter as a famine, more a revolution but farmers were again itnterfered with their job: making food.

 

The Great Famine resulted on millions (est. 30 million by some and 45 million by others) being killed by starvation. People in my wife's family hate corn because that was all there was to eat. Eating only corn results in pellagra when the body cannot get protein and other nutrients corn does not provide. It's an ugly death. I have read where families would put their sick members on the side of the street when they were near death so they would be picked up by the cleanup crews, when they came. Mao wanted the country to move ahead and beat the UK and the US in steel production. So to meet his quota of steel, people had all the wok's, hoes, shovels, etc. converted to steel, and a poor quality steel at that. In the process, farmers had no tools to make food. They also had a quota of whaet to produce and often boosted the figures to give Mao the impression he was succeeding when actually he was starving his own people to death.

 

He was once told by his advisors that so-and-so million Chinese had died as a result of the Leap Forward. He said that China could afford them.

 

Of course, the Revolution is one of the most fascinating pieces of history in China. It was a war between the Red Guard factions that just started out to be one of Mao's purges. Aside from death by combat, many died from starvation. There goes another 30 million.

 

Oh well....

 

This is pretty accurate. To add a little the quotas for steel production were unrealistic and the steel they were producing was such poor quality they had to melt steel tools down to get the numbers up. Mao himself didn't tell people to melt down their tools. The Red Guard was Mao's idea to thwart opposition against him. Unfortunately they got out of hand and became hooligan vigilantes who held the population in terror. Priceless artifacts were destroyed in the fervor of out with the old, in with the new. To this day in China there is an attitude that old is no good. My wife calls it the 10 years China was crazy.

[Randy W]

 

 

Despite China's attempts to control the flow of information, it's becoming more and more difficult to feed their people shit while telling them it's duck sauce. Ai Weiwei explains the reason why in this video:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtDTPZX8IRQ

 

But at the same time, the Internet provides a convenient sandbox for everybody to play in - one which can be monitored, controlled, steered and bumped in the "right" direction. They can (and do) very easily allow "freedom of speech" to run its course, and then simply delete it, impersonate it, or steer it where they want it to go. All the while, gaining many brownie points for the "new freedom".

 

In my own opinion, the Internet, along with the Wiebo's and other social media, was the greatest gift ever handed the Chinese censors.

 

All they really need to do is refine their recipe for the duck sauce.

 

 

You're right in the sense that the Internet allows the China government/censors to track and suppress whatever they choose. But, it also gives the people of China a place to express and organize dissent, which is happening a lot. It's pissing the China government off too, as they have enacted new laws to suppress dissent in the name of what they call rumor control. It remains to be seen, but I don't think the Chinese government has the hold on its people that it thinks it has.

 

 

That's exactly what I mean when I say, "the Internet provides a convenient sandbox for everybody to play in"

[danb]

Randy, Thank for the link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Congress_of_the_Communist_Party_of_China It help explain the numbers 3rd Plenum , 18th Congress. I had looked up the word Plenum and found an explanation of the third Plenum and how it is used. The 18th Congress was confusing to me. I couldn't make the numbers 2013-1949 and 5 years terms and 18 years work out. I guess the year 1921 is an important year to the Chinese Communist Party. It is the date that it was formed. When I think about Communist China I had always referenced the year 1949.

 

In that article it said:

 

"The National CPC Congress should not be confused with the National People's Congress which is the legislature of the People's Republic of China. In contrast with the NPC which has become more assertive since the 1990s, the National Congress of the Communist Party has shown no signs of becoming a deliberative assembly with independent power. In addition the National Congress should not be confused with theChinese People's Political Consultative Conference. While leadership changes in the government usually occur at the National People's Congress sessions, now held every March, leadership changes in the party occur at the Party's National Congress."

 

There is a sure lot of different titles and names in that there paragraph. I had learned before that even though there was Congressional like body in China that the true power was derived from a group of about 150-200 members of the Communist Party. Those 150-200 members must have been the ones that attend the 3rd Plenum of the 18th Congress. Danb

[Randy W]

It all stems from a single phrase in the Chinese Constitution - " . . . under the leadership of the Communist Party."

[Randy W]

More on the Internet, the Party, and the Third Plenum from the Global Times. I think this one article says aLOT about the Chinese approach to the Internet and the "sandbox".

 

Incorporate cyber opinion into governance

 

The Internet has played an irreplaceable role in promoting expression of public opinion while it's also controversial in carrying a large number of radical voices and rumors. But online opinions have influenced the formation of this major document and positive effects of the Internet have been evoked.

Internet has inflicted the biggest variable to China's social governance, bringing as much vitalities as troubles. . . .

The Internet should actively participate in social governance and politics, which can enable State policies and principles to be more closely connected to the public. On the other hand, governing and administering the country shouldn't be overwhelmed by online opinion. China should explore how to strike a balance.

. . . Chinese society should adapt to this and dwell on how to shape the Internet into a harmless mechanism for expressing public opinion. The detailed document . . .responds to online concerns but doesn't simply adopt them.

Local governments and officials often pay too much attention to, even feel awe about, online opinion, or they go to the other extreme of snubbing online opinion. A few officials expect the crackdown on online rumors could create room for totally controlling the Internet. This is a huge misunderstanding. With the advancing of Internet technology and faster flowing of information, it's impossible to return to the governing condition of the "pre-Internet era."

The Internet should be supportive of social governance. If its destructive nature comes to the fore, not only will the government strengthen its regulation, but the whole of society will also boycott it. More Netizens have moved from Weibo to other social networking platforms due to rampant rumors and personal abuse.

Social networks are valuable channels for public opinion expression. They have contributed to China's progress. Online concerns cannot be evaded. Cyber opinion leaders should take more responsibilities to manage these channels.

[Randy W]

In the Global Times today . . .

 

Fall of the Big V's

 

 

. . . as the authorities tighten control over the "Big V's" who could easily sway the public opinion.

Weibo has occupied much of the headlines since it was created in late 2009. But if the past few years saw the influence of Weibo rising as an information and public discussion platform, this year witnessed a string of campaigns against online opinion leaders and a more active role for official microblogging accounts. A shift in balance seems to be shaping Weibo.

New redline

Since its beginning, Sina Weibo has adopted the celebrity route, inviting popular actors and intellectuals to post online and attract users. The strategy has worked wonders. Those celebrities have tens of millions of followers on Weibo and quickly became opinion leaders. They are called "Big V's" because of the verification sign next to their account.

 

. . .

 

"I have irresponsibly reposted negative information without verification," he said on CCTV.

The campaign was supposed to be targeting the reckless making and spreading of rumors on social media, but the move has been interpreted by some as a way to deter discussion of public affairs.

 

. . .

 

It isn't just because of the recent high-profile "Big V" controversy that users are leaving. Issues like censorship and a lack of rational debate have been driving people away for quite some time. In one example, Zhang Ming, an outspoken political science professor at Renmin University of China, left in 2012, citing these reasons.

A shift in balance is quietly taking place, as indicated in a report released by the Public Opinion Monitoring Center under the People's Daily and china.com on October 30.

. . .

Some online celebrities have also become more cautious when commenting on political issues compared with before.