Making sense of this , Good Samaritans/ Bad Samaritan

[danb]

I wasn't sure how I was going to title this post. Initially I was going to go with "Mao, Tao, Dao, Confucius, Silver or Gold... can explain this, Right?" Here is an excerpt from I story I read last night on internet. First the link:

 

http://behindthewall.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/07/10/19396242-chinese-push-for-good-samaritan-law#comments

 

And here an excerpt form the story"

 

 

"BEIJING – Two teenage boys who attempted to rescue their friends from drowning in the southwestern Chinese province of Sichuan have each agreed to pay 50,000 yuan ($8,150) for failing to pull them from the lake.

Although police did not charge them with a crime, Wu Bo and Liu Hai, both 18, agreed to pay the family of one of the victims in a settlement that is not uncommon in China, where there are no national "Good Samaritan" laws protecting people from criminal liability if they help someone in danger. "

What I am trying to make sense is why either party would want to pay or accept the 50,000 RMB. What purpose does it serve? I understand that often the silver rule is applied by the Chinese instead of the golden rule. Are the boys paying the money to say that they are sorry that they weren't successful in saving the girls lives? What will the girls' parents do with the money. What will they spend it on?

Is this type of thinking created from the Mao era or by the teaching of Confucius or some other teachings? Normally I try to respect other cultures and customs but I find this one a bit disturbing. What do you think? Danb

 

 

 

 

[Randy W]

The article doesn't say where the "societal pressure" came from, or whose idea it was to pay the money. I believe it's simply a bad idea, even by Chinese standards, and has nothing to do with any legal obligations or standards.

 

Many aspects of Chinese life are simply mis-reported by the Western media, and often by the Chinese online community. I expect that will turn out to be the case here.

 

 

Devastated over the drowning of their friends and facing societal pressure to pay some form of compensation, the teens agreed to the settlement just hours after the incident, the Chengdu Business Daily newspaper reported.

 

[danb]

Randy perhaps you are right. Maybe my BS sensors were trying a break. I had seen that story during my lunch break. I had forgotten where i had read the post so later I goggled trying to find the same article. I ran into several Chinese Good Samaritan stories and some stories about attempts to pass a law to protect good Samaritans. Some of those stories talked about that 2 year child ( about 2 years ago in the southern part of China) who had been hit by several car and yet so many people just walked on by. Here is a link that makes an attempt at the thought process of why. Here is the link:

 

http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2011/10/18/would-good-samaritan-law-have-helped-little-girl/

 

and an except from it.

 

"A Youku user writing under the name Xiaodouban520 spelled it out in greater detail: “There are too many cases in which old people fall down, are saved and then turn around and sue the people who saved them… These people walking by didn’t dare help because they were afraid Yueyue’s parents would wrangle with them.”

Which raises the question: Would any of the people who passed the child by have stopped to help had they known there was camera footage to prove their good intentions? "

I read other articles that stated that sometime the Good Samaritan were fake ones . ( Peng Yu incident in 2006). Also judges were quoted to have said since the good Samaritan had involve himself that he must have been guilt of causing the damage.

In China I have seen a large spectating crowd gather when there is an accident or an argument but usually no one seems to lend a hand. Maybe these lacking of helping are extensions of the silver rule. This does bring up the question what should we as westerners if we see a person in need. Are we just asking for trouble? Are we going to have to refer to the post about getting arrested in China? Sorry if I am straying a bit from my origin question. Hopefully it is not that far. Danb

[True Blue]

Om my first trip to China, an old woman tripped while crossing the middle of street. I instinctively went over to help her up and to see if she was OK, while watching dozens of Chinese both young and old walk around and over her. After I helped her to her feet and she smiled indicating she was OK, I went back to the street corner where my girlfriend (now wife) was standing with other Chinese (and all were doing nothing to help). I proceeded to get yelled at very strongly and was told I must be crazy for attempting to help and that it was probable that I would be put in jail and blamed for the woman's mishap unless I paid a large settlement to her (even though nowhere near her as I was on the curb at the side of the road at the time that the old woman tripped while crossing in the middle of the road) .

 

My take on the culture in China (this is my honest opinion based on what I observed, so please do not slur me as a racist or anti Chinese or a China hater) is that Chinese people will extend help and courtesy to family and friends but will largely ignore the problems of strangers for fear of being sued or fear of the person having the misfortune for targeting the "good Samaritan" as an easy target for blame and financial recovery.

[johnxiaoying]

I've read of good samaritans being screwed big time for helping people who have had mishaps or traffic accidents. Seems a good too many people in China see it as an opportunity to personally profit.

 

I started to run to help a guy who got hit on his electric bike by a ditz pulling out from the curb. Probably it was good for me that he was up before I could get there. Us laowai need to fight the urge to help someone when we're in China.

[david_dawei]

What I am trying to make sense is why either party would want to pay or accept the 50,000 RMB. What purpose does it serve? I understand that often the silver rule is applied by the Chinese instead of the golden rule. Are the boys paying the money to say that they are sorry that they weren't successful in saving the girls lives? What will the girls' parents do with the money. What will they spend it on?

Is this type of thinking created from the Mao era or by the teaching of Confucius or some other teachings? Normally I try to respect other cultures and customs but I find this one a bit disturbing. What do you think? Danb

 

The pressure to pay is somewhat survival; settle on an amount instead of finding your life completely ruined paying till your gray.

 

It is a kind of unspoken societal pressure to stay away from helping because your more likely to pay up as the good Samaritan. In fact, it is cheaper to [accidentally, of course) to run someone over and kill them than to have them survive; That is what a car's 'reverse' gear is good for in the driver's mind caught in this dilemma.

[david_dawei]

Story today in china:

 

A man gave his wife sleeping pills and after she fell asleep he brought to the the middle of a road and rode over her and returned home.

 

Killing her [and trying to pass it off as an traffic accident by another vehicle] was cheaper than divorcing her.

 

What he didn't figure into the equation was that traffic cameras caught it and he'll end up penniless nonetheless...

[tsap seui]

I don't know, good samaritan, bad samaritan.... I am compelled to help when I can. But, it's China, their country, their rules, their way of life....it's up to the individual to make their decision. A person that knows how things work in China has to make their own decision on what to do in any particular situation. You have to live with yourself, and for me, that is hard to do sometimes. I would think that in China, knowing what I was up against, I'd have to do something, even if it were only to carry a person to the side of the road out of harms (further) way and run like hell, or get my wife to call their 911 number....something.

 

Years ago Wenyan and I were walking in the shopping district of Fushun and it was damn cold in the winter time. I saw the crowd movement walking around something ahead on the sidewalk. When we walked up to the scene there was an old guy laying there on the sidewalk. I was freezing in my heavy long underwear and heavy coat and this guy had on a light jacket. He was mumbling had some open sores or cuts on his face and hands and as I leaned down to him (with Wenyan pulling me away) I could smell urine and booze. I am a drug addict and an alcoholic and there but for the grace of God lay I. I took of my stupid (I've got a bank full of loot but I don't usually buy yuppie clothing with "name's" on them) North Face or whatever expensive jacket and draped it over the guy and tried to tuck it around him. Knowing it would probably be taken off of him before I got out of sight, I couldn't leave the guy there without some sort of warmth, hell, I was uncomfortable even with all my gear on.

 

Yeah, I was probably dumb for giving the guy my coat that I had bought in a rush but it made me warmer inside my head than that yuppie coat ever made me. Sue me for for helping (if you can find me) but I have to live with myself. I think in China you have to pick and choose when to help or run away. That sucks in many ways, but a feller must pick his battles. That old guy hadn't been hit by a car or whatever but he was still in jeopardy.

 

Not everyone in China turns the other cheek. My brother in law got hit by a car in the rain as he crossed the road. It was a very busy street filled with pedestrians and cars with the rain teeming down. The driver could have easily driven his typical black European face car off in the crowd and gotten cleanly away but he stopped and took my inlaw to a hospital and made sure he got "good" help. Paid his bill and gave him some money for his time off work. Not everyone in China shirks their duty with no conscience. Doing the right thing often is not the easy way. I'd like to think I'd do the right thing when I saw someone in need, even if it meant I'd have to make a quick getaway simply for my good deed.

 

tsap seui

[danb]

In general I think in the US it would be fairly easy to decide to do. But in China it seems as if some of the "rules" may be different. I am not sure what i would do. I would like to think that my conscience , my gut and my instincts would say to help but I am not sure what my brain (sense with a partial insight to the Chinese perspective) would have me do. Tsap Seui may have a good suggestion of a quick get away but being a foreigner I wonder if I ( and my 250 + lbs) could melt back into the crowd. I am sure if I saw a 2 year old child being bounce around the road that I would have to do something, no matter the consequences. it is hard to make sense of what to do. DanB

[warpedbored]

This is one of the very few things about China that disturbs me greatly. I don't know if it's just people being afraid of retribution, being arrested or just only caring about friends and family. It's more than just being worried about being set up by a disabled beggar writhing around in the street. On my last trip to China we were on a bus returning to Nanning from Detian waterfalls. While going through a small town I saw the aftermath of a fatal motorbike accident. A young woman was cradling the victim's head in her lap and bawling her eyes out. The motorbike was in pieces on the ground next to them. Nobody stopped, nobody helped. They just walked by like nothing had happened. I suppose part of it may be because it hasn't been all that long ago when people were starving in China. In severe hardship like that you can't concern yourself with anyone other than your family and their survival.

[Dennis143]

This is one of the very few things about China that disturbs me greatly. I don't know if it's just people being afraid of retribution, being arrested or just only caring about friends and family. It's more than just being worried about being set up by a disabled beggar writhing around in the street. On my last trip to China we were on a bus returning to Nanning from Detian waterfalls. While going through a small town I saw the aftermath of a fatal motorbike accident. A young woman was cradling the victim's head in her lap and bawling her eyes out. The motorbike was in pieces on the ground next to them. Nobody stopped, nobody helped. They just walked by like nothing had happened. I suppose part of it may be because it hasn't been all that long ago when people were starving in China. In severe hardship like that you can't concern yourself with anyone other than your family and their survival.

That was my theory too. You could only help those who helped you. It was a mere matter of survival. But from talking to my many close Chinese friends, they tell me that this guanxi, connections and relationship, is an embedded part of Chinese culture that has developed over many centuries.

 

I suppose the Great Leap Forward famines certainly helped ingrain guanxi even more. Without a societal base belief to love one another or just to do unto others as you'd have them do unto you, as we have been taught since children, they are trained just to keep a blind eye at other's suffering.

 

Personally, I think that not having a good samaritan law is just an easy excuse not to help. And if I were in China and saw someone needing help in a life or death situation, I would not stop to consider all the ramifications. I am certain that my reflexes would go on automatic, just as they would here. And, I believe most of us would not hesitate to rescue someone if the opportunity arose. Just as Chinese are learning the helping ways of their new life in America, I believe that westerners owe it to teach our Chinese wives and families that it's OK to help without asking for anything in return.

[Oldfriend]

Personally, I think that, particularly with this subject, many here are afraid to be labeled China-bashers, etc. So really truthful opinions are a bit saturated with too much caution.

Not me.

When I lived there I experienced so many examples of this all holds barred system of helpfulness.

Not that we don't have many instances of bystander apathy in the States, but what I saw daily had a much different flavor to it.

This level of noninvolvement and nonintervention exists on all levels of social strata in China, up to and including the police.

Prime example: my father-in-law getting the shit kicked out of him by three drunk fools and the police responding with "Doesn't matter, no bones broken"

Y'all can have China thank you. It sucks.

[warpedbored]

Personally, I think that, particularly with this subject, many here are afraid to be labeled China-bashers, etc. So really truthful opinions are a bit saturated with too much caution.

Not me.

When I lived there I experienced so many examples of this all holds barred system of helpfulness.

Not that we don't have many instances of bystander apathy in the States, but what I saw daily had a much different flavor to it.

This level of noninvolvement and nonintervention exists on all levels of social strata in China, up to and including the police.

Prime example: my father-in-law getting the shit kicked out of him by three drunk fools and the police responding with "Doesn't matter, no bones broken"

Y'all can have China thank you. It sucks.

Unless you've lived there like Steve, Randy, Fu Lai or Jesse, you probably have a more romantic view of China. The glimpses I've gotten of this issue were just that, brief glimpses. That was enough to convince me that this is an area of culture I don't think Americans or Chinese can ever see eye to eye on. It's perplexing. Especially since I've also seen the intense level of compassion and concern the Chinese have for friends and family.

[david_dawei]

this is an area of culture I don't think Americans or Chinese can ever see eye to eye on. It's perplexing. Especially since I've also seen the intense level of compassion and concern the Chinese have for friends and family.

 

 

Well said.